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A challenge to theists
01-18-2010, 02:29 PM
Post: #1
A challenge to theists
All right. So I often use YouTube videos to illustrate points, because videos with diagrams are often much better at getting a point across with text. I especially enjoy videos by cdk007 and DonExodus2, since they generally seem the most objective, rather than having an axe to grind against creationists.

Both of these accounts, along with many other accounts, are under constant attack by Vote Bots. Programs launched that automatically give videos a 1-star rating. These are sent by theists and creationists who are too frightened to actually judge a theory on its merits, because truth does not matter to them nearly as much as dogma (cdk007 was recently attacked again, and he talks about it here in an understandably angry video.

Cdk007 seems to think vote-bots are the final proof that Creationists (and theists in general) have absolutely nothing to offer. I thought about that, and immediately what springs to mind is the constant adage, "Oh, but not all Christians are that way." I thought about that especially in context with these forums. We have had theists on these forums say horrible things, from intentionally trying to upset someone recovering from a friend's suicide, to spouting utter BS about history and historical figures. And every time, it is the atheists and agnostics of the board who correct them.

Well, here is my challenge to you. If you expect me to accept that all theists (and yes, I'm including Muslims as well as Christians in this category, and everyone else) are not lying, hateful imbeciles who are perfectly willing to cheat and swindle people into believing their mythology, then start policing your own. When someone says something that's wrong, hateful, or just plain stupid, it shouldn't be the atheists who correct them. It should be you.

Sometimes this happens (when catholicstation said his BS about suicide many theists stepped in to correct them). When it does, it reflects well upon your community. But it rarely happens. Theists say all kinds of BS on these forums, and it's always either me, Parousia, or the other atheists and agnostics who correct them. That just tells me the rest of you theists agree with them. And since their stances are dishonest and immoral, that makes you dishonest and immoral.

This does work both ways, and I do try to correct atheists who claim to be able to prove a universal negative, or who say that it was impossible Jesus existed as a man, or whatever. But as long as you allow your fellow theists to spout BS on the boards, don't expect me to buy that all theists are not like the worst examples of your faiths.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
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01-18-2010, 03:22 PM
Post: #2
RE: A challenge to theists
you against the world GT , never mind someone has to .
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01-18-2010, 03:24 PM
Post: #3
RE: A challenge to theists
I'm hardly alone. Granted, the intellectually honest are severely outnumbered by the intellectually dishonest (at least in my country,) but I am hardly alone. I'm not sure if that's enough, frankly, especially since atheists can't practically get elected to political office in America so there's very little chance of the logical, reasonable people changing anything, but I'm certainly not alone.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
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01-18-2010, 03:41 PM
Post: #4
RE: A challenge to theists
I think GT has made a very good point. I phrased something incorrect regarding evolution and GT pulled me up on it. I didn't grumble; in that instance it was a simple mistake as I was in a rush when I posted, but on other occasions Parousia or GT have corrected me and I learnt something.

GT is the most blunt on calling people out as lying, but it does go on. Surely the interest here is us all learning something, so correcting others when they are saying something that's just not true is to be encouraged in my view. Obviously there will be differences in interpretation sometimes, and that's fine, but just lying to try to win an argument is pointless.
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01-18-2010, 04:35 PM
Post: #5
RE: A challenge to theists
fare comment , gt , zag . there is a god by the way , just incase you forgot .
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01-18-2010, 05:04 PM (This post was last modified: 01-18-2010 05:06 PM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #6
RE: A challenge to theists
I guess we will have to come on board, willingly or unwillingly.

Prophet Muhammad claimed prophethood at age of 4o and he was known for examplary truthfulness and honesty in the community, before his claim. So, Muslims are also duty bound to follow his example.

It is an established and agreed principle by the Orientalist (Christian experts on Islam) that when the Quran makes a claim about the time of its revelation then it has to be taken on face value. Reason? Because otherwise tough customers like GT would have immediately exposed the pious fiction and the believers would have gone apostate. The Quran implies that he had a very positive reputation among his peers before his claim to prophethood and later out of jealousy many denied his claim and accused him for different short comings, but never before his claim to prophethood. (Al Quran 10:17)

GT -- when you met my challenge to bring out verses from the Bible to possibly predict Einstein, Newton, Gandhi etc. I yielded and realized my mistake that I had extended an immature challenge.

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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01-18-2010, 06:33 PM
Post: #7
RE: A challenge to theists
Hey, I try!

Pawol anpil pa leve le mo
Lavi m nan men Bondye o sen
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01-18-2010, 11:25 PM
Post: #8
RE: A challenge to theists
Ahmadi, Clementine, of all the theists on this list I respect the two of you, even if I do not agree with you. First because you seem free from the hateful behavior and anti-science behavior of most theists, and second because you actually do attempt to have reasoned conversations, even though (in my opinion, of course,) your religions aren't well suited to it.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
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01-18-2010, 11:54 PM
Post: #9
RE: A challenge to theists
Aside from the instance referred to in the OP involving catholicstation, and some creationist liar, I don't know that I've seen nasty behavior on a very high scale. Maybe I'm just a newbie compared to you guys, or maybe It's because I'm used to TOL, which is much worse. My impression of this whole forum is that it has some very nice and tolerant theists, and atheists too.

I don't think I've shown emnity or presented incorrect facts here, though when it comes to condemning fanatics, I might get a bit carried away debating theology with them instead. With this reminder anyhow, I'll do my best to contribute more order than disorder to these forums.
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01-19-2010, 12:03 AM
Post: #10
RE: A challenge to theists
Not all Christians are like that. Certainly not on these boards. I did not mean to imply that you were. But I wanted to eliminate "not all Christians are like that" as an excuse.

If you sit idly by and allow the atheists and agnostics to contradict the worst examples of your religion, then how can we think but that you believe the same? We are outsiders to your faith, looking in. When one of your faith (whatever that faith may be) says something hateful, disgusting, or wrong, then shouldn't it be you who jumps in and corrects them? Shouldn't it be you who makes it clear that their thinking is backward? Otherwise I have every justification to think that most theists are as hateful as the examples I have described, and that the exceptions are just that - exceptions to a horrible, immoral rule.

My post was not intended to say that all theists are evil people. My post was intended to get all you non-evil theists to start policing your own.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
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