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A higher purpose for the bible
10-15-2009, 07:51 AM
Post: #1
A higher purpose for the bible
Everyone who can think logically knows about that simple fact. The fact, that is ignored by religious people.

The bible is a book of fiction, written about two thousand years ago by long-bearded guys who were potentially very insane. And those fictional stories are still being taken seriously nowadays.

But as only the most foolish people take those words for real, there should come a better, more appropriate purpose for those books that add nothing good to anyone's life. They have caused nothing but trouble so far, so this is more important than you might realize right now.



I suggest we use them for toilet paper. The bible is the world's most sold book, so there is quite a lot of paper coming from it. Why waste it by reading that nonsense written inside? Use it as toilet parer and it serves a useful and world-improving goal, unlike it does now.


What do you think? I'd love to hear other people's suggestions. Maybe someone has and even better idea.
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10-15-2009, 10:55 AM
Post: #2
RE: A higher purpose for the bible
All right, you said you could back up your statements. How about you start now? Show that you can back up:

1. Religious people don't think logically (I'm inclined to agree with you, but I want to see YOU think logically to prove it)
2. The Bible is fiction (Again, inclined to agree, but I want to see you do more than rant)
3. The writers of the Bible were insane
4. The Bible adds no good to anyone's life
5. That you have some purpose for suggesting your alternate use of the Bible BESIDES just trying to make people angry.

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10-15-2009, 12:35 PM
Post: #3
RE: A higher purpose for the bible
(10-15-2009 10:55 AM)GTseng3 Wrote:  All right, you said you could back up your statements. How about you start now? Show that you can back up:

1. Religious people don't think logically (I'm inclined to agree with you, but I want to see YOU think logically to prove it)
2. The Bible is fiction (Again, inclined to agree, but I want to see you do more than rant)
3. The writers of the Bible were insane
4. The Bible adds no good to anyone's life
5. That you have some purpose for suggesting your alternate use of the Bible BESIDES just trying to make people angry.


Very well.

1. I have spoken with people of various religions. Mainly christians. Their way of looking at life in a spiritual, unrealistic way makes me sad. They hold anything they can't directly explain for 'the work of god', and each and every single one of them puts his or her faith blindly in their religious book. Their mentally and actions are funny in a way, but still I find it very sad that it limits their own (not so)free will and the need to think for themselves. Other than that, can't say much about those I've met in real life.

Online is where they show their ugly face without holding back. A lot of them try to convert people, drawing them to the darkness of their own religion. They too show a frightening stereotype that they can't let loose of what their religious handbooks describes. I didn't even look for them, but I found them anyway. Plenty try to shape their own artificial 'proof' to justify their beliefs. They attempt to prove what is fiction.(I'll explain in point 2)

The statements made by religious people are also by far, with many light years, the most ridiculous claims I've ever read. Braindead people notwithstanding. This site: http://www.fstdt.net, more or less put it in a nutshell.

Apparently, there are religious scientists and even some rare specimens who, despite being religious, don't have severe mental shortcomings. Unfortunately they still believe that life won't end after they die, so from that angle they still lack logic, as no such thing has ever been verified.


God killed about 3 million people for various reasons. People who didn't follow his guidelines, generally. Satan killed about 10 people.

If god is considered the 'light', everything good, yet satan all the 'dark', the evil, I'd rather pick the latter as my character to worship. At least he does accept you for the way you are...

I've read parts of the bible myself. Not too interesting. But a lot of nonsense. The kind of nonsense that a sensible person does not take serious. Not without hard proof.



2. A lot of clowns say that you can't disproof was has been written in the bible. However, there is no proof that anything in the bible is true in the first place. Nothing at all.

In essence there is no proof that ghosts cannot exist either, so why not believe in ghost also? Makes just as much sense. The only difference is that it isn't documented to such a great extend.

We could also believe that dragons, griffins, goblins, trolls, unicorns, mermaids, vampires, witches and fairies are real. There is no proof for these either, so they should be able to become gods too.

I could make something similar to the bible, like 'The Holy Rabbit'. A supreme rodent that rules and controls our world from the rabbit holes in the meadow in an alternate dimension. If I made it detailed enough then I see no reason why people wouldn't start believing in it.



3. See my story above. It's a shame that we don't know for real what happened during that time, but it takes an insane mind to use books to gain power over people. Once the religious cult was formed they said: If you don't support us, you will go to hell. But if you support and finance us, you will go to heaven. What a brilliant way to control people!

Or something like that. I have my suspicions. Though too bad we'll never know.



4. Not that I know of. Maybe it eases some people, and caused them to do some good things, but all the wars it caused in the end make for a very negative balance. Very bad things come from reading it for sure.



5. Reading that book causes much more trouble than good things. Besides, I really don't like the fact that so many people are mentally chained by their religious books' guidelines. Even more so than realizing they chose to believe in it... even if you are raised a chistian, a bright person who thinks in a logic and realistic way must seriously doubt what he/she has been taught.
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10-15-2009, 02:08 PM
Post: #4
RE: A higher purpose for the bible
See, now, there you go. That's approaching things from logical, reasoned arguments, for the most part. You even linked to websites backing up your claims.

Your original post cannot really be answered by theists except to say, "No, you're wrong." The post above, on the other hand, contains more specific arguments, laid out in a more rational fashion. That can actually be the discussion of a dialogue.

Keep in mind that theists are no more evil than your average human. For the most part they're just deluded. And while I think more idiots tend to be religious than intelligent people, many, many intelligent people are still religious. So you have to decide whether you're just venting, or preaching to the choir of atheists (in which case, what's the point?) or trying to open up a dialogue with theists, to better refine your own beliefs and hopefully help them refine theirs.

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10-15-2009, 03:15 PM
Post: #5
RE: A higher purpose for the bible
(10-15-2009 02:08 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  See, now, there you go. That's approaching things from logical, reasoned arguments, for the most part. You even linked to websites backing up your claims.

Your original post cannot really be answered by theists except to say, "No, you're wrong." The post above, on the other hand, contains more specific arguments, laid out in a more rational fashion. That can actually be the discussion of a dialogue.

Keep in mind that theists are no more evil than your average human. For the most part they're just deluded. And while I think more idiots tend to be religious than intelligent people, many, many intelligent people are still religious. So you have to decide whether you're just venting, or preaching to the choir of atheists (in which case, what's the point?) or trying to open up a dialogue with theists, to better refine your own beliefs and hopefully help them refine theirs.

Agreed.

I hope that one day there is no longer such a things as atheists and theists. By my first post I can actually help to start up a movement, one that counters religion, whether you can believe it or not. People make fun of the bible. Up to absurd extends, in fact. I'd recommend every single religious person who views this thread to visit a site that parodies the bible:

http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

In fact, that site holds what I consider something far superior to the bible, simply because it has a feature that leaves out any doubt that anyone might have when it's possibly fictional: humor. The LOLcat bible is a great alternative to the actual bible.

The more people make fun of religion, the harder it will be to take it serious, even for hardcore believers and supporters. In the end, it may even be the straw that breaks the camel's back and clears humankind of religion.

I can't help it. I'm like a clown.
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10-16-2009, 04:20 AM
Post: #6
RE: A higher purpose for the bible
(10-15-2009 12:35 PM)Kudo the kind Wrote:  1. I have spoken with people of various religions. Mainly christians. Their way of looking at life in a spiritual, unrealistic way makes me sad. They hold anything they can't directly explain for 'the work of god', and each and every single one of them puts his or her faith blindly in their religious book. Their mentally and actions are funny in a way, but still I find it very sad that it limits their own (not so)free will and the need to think for themselves. Other than that, can't say much about those I've met in real life.

Online is where they show their ugly face without holding back. A lot of them try to convert people, drawing them to the darkness of their own religion. They too show a frightening stereotype that they can't let loose of what their religious handbooks describes. I didn't even look for them, but I found them anyway. Plenty try to shape their own artificial 'proof' to justify their beliefs. They attempt to prove what is fiction.(I'll explain in point 2)

The statements made by religious people are also by far, with many light years, the most ridiculous claims I've ever read. Braindead people notwithstanding. This site: http://www.fstdt.net, more or less put it in a nutshell.

Apparently, there are religious scientists and even some rare specimens who, despite being religious, don't have severe mental shortcomings. Unfortunately they still believe that life won't end after they die, so from that angle they still lack logic, as no such thing has ever been verified.


God killed about 3 million people for various reasons. People who didn't follow his guidelines, generally. Satan killed about 10 people.

If god is considered the 'light', everything good, yet satan all the 'dark', the evil, I'd rather pick the latter as my character to worship. At least he does accept you for the way you are...

I've read parts of the bible myself. Not too interesting. But a lot of nonsense. The kind of nonsense that a sensible person does not take serious. Not without hard proof.



2. A lot of clowns say that you can't disproof was has been written in the bible. However, there is no proof that anything in the bible is true in the first place. Nothing at all.

In essence there is no proof that ghosts cannot exist either, so why not believe in ghost also? Makes just as much sense. The only difference is that it isn't documented to such a great extend.

We could also believe that dragons, griffins, goblins, trolls, unicorns, mermaids, vampires, witches and fairies are real. There is no proof for these either, so they should be able to become gods too.

I could make something similar to the bible, like 'The Holy Rabbit'. A supreme rodent that rules and controls our world from the rabbit holes in the meadow in an alternate dimension. If I made it detailed enough then I see no reason why people wouldn't start believing in it.



3. See my story above. It's a shame that we don't know for real what happened during that time, but it takes an insane mind to use books to gain power over people. Once the religious cult was formed they said: If you don't support us, you will go to hell. But if you support and finance us, you will go to heaven. What a brilliant way to control people!

Or something like that. I have my suspicions. Though too bad we'll never know.



4. Not that I know of. Maybe it eases some people, and caused them to do some good things, but all the wars it caused in the end make for a very negative balance. Very bad things come from reading it for sure.



5. Reading that book causes much more trouble than good things. Besides, I really don't like the fact that so many people are mentally chained by their religious books' guidelines. Even more so than realizing they chose to believe in it... even if you are raised a chistian, a bright person who thinks in a logic and realistic way must seriously doubt what he/she has been taught.

Very good. Big Grin

Considering the Bible as the sole source and authority for religion leads to many problems. IMO these problems stem from three sources.

First, there is the obvious problem that the Bible is not a single coherent work but rather a history of changing ideas and a compendium of diverse ones.

Second, the rejection of oral tradition leads to the inability to reinterpret ideas and adjust to changing times as needed.

Third, the combination of perceived absolute inerrancy of dogma with the attitude of actively spreading 'the word' has served as an excuse for much wrongdoing. (We should also note that the evils of the past and present often laid exclusively at the feet of religion in fact arose from much more complex causes than just religion.)

BTW who were the ten people Satan killed? Does that include Job's children? Wink
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10-16-2009, 05:12 PM
Post: #7
RE: A higher purpose for the bible
It's not useless, it's just Old!

I think the Bible shows how Western Monotheism has Evolved and you can almost tell in what era each book of the bible was written.

I think it does contain wisdom, but at the same time Yahweh is not Actually God. Yahweh was most likely another Angel whom God spoke to people through. The Bible shows Peoples Opinions of God.
Each person who Wrote a book of the Bible had their own view about God. This is because we can't Comprehend God, so God has to use Angels.
I believe that Polytheism based Religions are worshiping Angels.
Each Angel has a small Essence of God that Reflects Gods Power into the eyes of Gods people.
Thus it is not God that Changes, but it is our Perception that Changes and the Perception depends on the One Perceiving.

Also Each Person that Yahweh was Revealed to must of had an Epiphany.
A sudden Realization of Something Divine. When a person saw this Divine being they saw what they Thought of as Perfection. Each persons idea of Perfection is different.

Noah's Epiphany was Realizing that a Flood was coming and thus he built a boat.
Abraham's Epiphany was Realizing his Offspring could Inherit the World.
Mosses's Epiphany was Realizing that his People needed Freedom and their own Land. He also Realized they needed Law & Order to keep them in line.
Jesus's Epiphany was that he was Needed by God and that God was going to use him. Jesus also Realized that Old Rules where not whats important but that Knowing God was. He taught that by Being a Good person we got to Know God.

So in my mind Yahweh was a Very Demonic Angel who wanted Blood
Sacrifices and Suffered from such human Emotions as Jealousy and Hate.
Yahweh is a God of Warriors and as Such I will go as far as to say that Yahweh is Actually the Arch Angel Michael!
Jesus was a Nephilim conceived by Michael and Marry.
When an Angel speaks for God they are speaking as if they themselves where God so that is why there are so many different Versions of God.

It was Michael not Satan that came to offer Jesus the World. Jesus was praying to the "Father" in heaven which is the Actual God. Jesus Denied Michael/Yahweh as his Father and instead Worshiped the Perception of God he Received. Jesus went from being a Lowly Nephilim to being a Medium for God just like the Angels.

To make things even more Complicated Michael is also Lucifer but only after Absorbing Jesus into himself. Lucifer wants to be the Only Angel Connected to God so that all of Existence would then become his to command and then he would have the power to become God.
What Lucifer imposes is the Destruction of Free Will and Thus God will not let him win.

So Angels are Mediums for a small part of God, people cant comprehend God, so they must Commune with Angels. What people Perceive in Epiphanies is not God but Angels and thus their perception of God is what they Deem as Perfection.

Righteous Behavior and a Fair Judge that is what I see as Perfection. So Azrael Represents my Idea of Perfection but I who am Azrael do not Worship Azrael. I worship The All! A God that can't be Comprehended Except by a Limited Understanding and even then it's just a Perception of God.

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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10-17-2009, 12:29 PM
Post: #8
RE: A higher purpose for the bible
(10-16-2009 05:12 PM)Azrael17 Wrote:  It's not useless, it's just Old!

I think the Bible shows how Western Monotheism has Evolved and you can almost tell in what era each book of the bible was written.

I think it does contain wisdom, but at the same time Yahweh is not Actually God. Yahweh was most likely another Angel whom God spoke to people through. The Bible shows Peoples Opinions of God.
Each person who Wrote a book of the Bible had their own view about God. This is because we can't Comprehend God, so God has to use Angels.
I believe that Polytheism based Religions are worshiping Angels.
Each Angel has a small Essence of God that Reflects Gods Power into the eyes of Gods people.
Thus it is not God that Changes, but it is our Perception that Changes and the Perception depends on the One Perceiving.

Also Each Person that Yahweh was Revealed to must of had an Epiphany.
A sudden Realization of Something Divine. When a person saw this Divine being they saw what they Thought of as Perfection. Each persons idea of Perfection is different.

Noah's Epiphany was Realizing that a Flood was coming and thus he built a boat.
Abraham's Epiphany was Realizing his Offspring could Inherit the World.
Mosses's Epiphany was Realizing that his People needed Freedom and their own Land. He also Realized they needed Law & Order to keep them in line.
Jesus's Epiphany was that he was Needed by God and that God was going to use him. Jesus also Realized that Old Rules where not whats important but that Knowing God was. He taught that by Being a Good person we got to Know God.

So in my mind Yahweh was a Very Demonic Angel who wanted Blood
Sacrifices and Suffered from such human Emotions as Jealousy and Hate.
Yahweh is a God of Warriors and as Such I will go as far as to say that Yahweh is Actually the Arch Angel Michael!
Jesus was a Nephilim conceived by Michael and Marry.
When an Angel speaks for God they are speaking as if they themselves where God so that is why there are so many different Versions of God.

It was Michael not Satan that came to offer Jesus the World. Jesus was praying to the "Father" in heaven which is the Actual God. Jesus Denied Michael/Yahweh as his Father and instead Worshiped the Perception of God he Received. Jesus went from being a Lowly Nephilim to being a Medium for God just like the Angels.

To make things even more Complicated Michael is also Lucifer but only after Absorbing Jesus into himself. Lucifer wants to be the Only Angel Connected to God so that all of Existence would then become his to command and then he would have the power to become God.
What Lucifer imposes is the Destruction of Free Will and Thus God will not let him win.

So Angels are Mediums for a small part of God, people cant comprehend God, so they must Commune with Angels. What people Perceive in Epiphanies is not God but Angels and thus their perception of God is what they Deem as Perfection.

Righteous Behavior and a Fair Judge that is what I see as Perfection. So Azrael Represents my Idea of Perfection but I who am Azrael do not Worship Azrael. I worship The All! A God that can't be Comprehended Except by a Limited Understanding and even then it's just a Perception of God.

You sure are adept at spamming and making a pile of incomprehensible nonsense.

Shame on you.
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10-30-2009, 02:01 AM
Post: #9
RE: A higher purpose for the bible
(10-17-2009 12:29 PM)Kudo the kind Wrote:  
(10-16-2009 05:12 PM)Azrael17 Wrote:  It's not useless, it's just Old!

I think the Bible shows how Western Monotheism has Evolved and you can almost tell in what era each book of the bible was written.

I think it does contain wisdom, but at the same time Yahweh is not Actually God. Yahweh was most likely another Angel whom God spoke to people through. The Bible shows Peoples Opinions of God.
Each person who Wrote a book of the Bible had their own view about God. This is because we can't Comprehend God, so God has to use Angels.
I believe that Polytheism based Religions are worshiping Angels.
Each Angel has a small Essence of God that Reflects Gods Power into the eyes of Gods people.
Thus it is not God that Changes, but it is our Perception that Changes and the Perception depends on the One Perceiving.

Also Each Person that Yahweh was Revealed to must of had an Epiphany.
A sudden Realization of Something Divine. When a person saw this Divine being they saw what they Thought of as Perfection. Each persons idea of Perfection is different.

Noah's Epiphany was Realizing that a Flood was coming and thus he built a boat.
Abraham's Epiphany was Realizing his Offspring could Inherit the World.
Mosses's Epiphany was Realizing that his People needed Freedom and their own Land. He also Realized they needed Law & Order to keep them in line.
Jesus's Epiphany was that he was Needed by God and that God was going to use him. Jesus also Realized that Old Rules where not whats important but that Knowing God was. He taught that by Being a Good person we got to Know God.

So in my mind Yahweh was a Very Demonic Angel who wanted Blood
Sacrifices and Suffered from such human Emotions as Jealousy and Hate.
Yahweh is a God of Warriors and as Such I will go as far as to say that Yahweh is Actually the Arch Angel Michael!
Jesus was a Nephilim conceived by Michael and Marry.
When an Angel speaks for God they are speaking as if they themselves where God so that is why there are so many different Versions of God.

It was Michael not Satan that came to offer Jesus the World. Jesus was praying to the "Father" in heaven which is the Actual God. Jesus Denied Michael/Yahweh as his Father and instead Worshiped the Perception of God he Received. Jesus went from being a Lowly Nephilim to being a Medium for God just like the Angels.

To make things even more Complicated Michael is also Lucifer but only after Absorbing Jesus into himself. Lucifer wants to be the Only Angel Connected to God so that all of Existence would then become his to command and then he would have the power to become God.
What Lucifer imposes is the Destruction of Free Will and Thus God will not let him win.

So Angels are Mediums for a small part of God, people cant comprehend God, so they must Commune with Angels. What people Perceive in Epiphanies is not God but Angels and thus their perception of God is what they Deem as Perfection.

Righteous Behavior and a Fair Judge that is what I see as Perfection. So Azrael Represents my Idea of Perfection but I who am Azrael do not Worship Azrael. I worship The All! A God that can't be Comprehended Except by a Limited Understanding and even then it's just a Perception of God.

You sure are adept at spamming and making a pile of incomprehensible nonsense.

Shame on you.

At least I'm not Closed Minded!

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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10-30-2009, 08:15 AM
Post: #10
RE: A higher purpose for the bible
(10-30-2009 02:01 AM)Azrael17 Wrote:  
(10-17-2009 12:29 PM)Kudo the kind Wrote:  
(10-16-2009 05:12 PM)Azrael17 Wrote:  It's not useless, it's just Old!

I think the Bible shows how Western Monotheism has Evolved and you can almost tell in what era each book of the bible was written.

I think it does contain wisdom, but at the same time Yahweh is not Actually God. Yahweh was most likely another Angel whom God spoke to people through. The Bible shows Peoples Opinions of God.
Each person who Wrote a book of the Bible had their own view about God. This is because we can't Comprehend God, so God has to use Angels.
I believe that Polytheism based Religions are worshiping Angels.
Each Angel has a small Essence of God that Reflects Gods Power into the eyes of Gods people.
Thus it is not God that Changes, but it is our Perception that Changes and the Perception depends on the One Perceiving.

Also Each Person that Yahweh was Revealed to must of had an Epiphany.
A sudden Realization of Something Divine. When a person saw this Divine being they saw what they Thought of as Perfection. Each persons idea of Perfection is different.

Noah's Epiphany was Realizing that a Flood was coming and thus he built a boat.
Abraham's Epiphany was Realizing his Offspring could Inherit the World.
Mosses's Epiphany was Realizing that his People needed Freedom and their own Land. He also Realized they needed Law & Order to keep them in line.
Jesus's Epiphany was that he was Needed by God and that God was going to use him. Jesus also Realized that Old Rules where not whats important but that Knowing God was. He taught that by Being a Good person we got to Know God.

So in my mind Yahweh was a Very Demonic Angel who wanted Blood
Sacrifices and Suffered from such human Emotions as Jealousy and Hate.
Yahweh is a God of Warriors and as Such I will go as far as to say that Yahweh is Actually the Arch Angel Michael!
Jesus was a Nephilim conceived by Michael and Marry.
When an Angel speaks for God they are speaking as if they themselves where God so that is why there are so many different Versions of God.

It was Michael not Satan that came to offer Jesus the World. Jesus was praying to the "Father" in heaven which is the Actual God. Jesus Denied Michael/Yahweh as his Father and instead Worshiped the Perception of God he Received. Jesus went from being a Lowly Nephilim to being a Medium for God just like the Angels.

To make things even more Complicated Michael is also Lucifer but only after Absorbing Jesus into himself. Lucifer wants to be the Only Angel Connected to God so that all of Existence would then become his to command and then he would have the power to become God.
What Lucifer imposes is the Destruction of Free Will and Thus God will not let him win.

So Angels are Mediums for a small part of God, people cant comprehend God, so they must Commune with Angels. What people Perceive in Epiphanies is not God but Angels and thus their perception of God is what they Deem as Perfection.

Righteous Behavior and a Fair Judge that is what I see as Perfection. So Azrael Represents my Idea of Perfection but I who am Azrael do not Worship Azrael. I worship The All! A God that can't be Comprehended Except by a Limited Understanding and even then it's just a Perception of God.

You sure are adept at spamming and making a pile of incomprehensible nonsense.

Shame on you.

At least I'm not Closed Minded!

That sure is a bold statement. People who say what you said, as well as claiming that they have an open mind themselves are often not aware of what it actually means.

For example, how would you describe open-mindedness? If you have a decent bit of honor, you will answer that without additional resources.

I challenge you.
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