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A new prophet?
10-30-2009, 08:48 PM
Post: #1
A new prophet?
Would we recognise a prophet if he appeared today? (On a side note: why have all previous prophets been men?)

There is at least one contributor to these boards who says that they speak to God in dreams. Other people in the last few decades have claimed the same thing, but many have been derided and denounced as crazy or liars. But... how do we know they’re not the real deal?

Moses came down from the mountains announcing that he’d spoken with Jehovah. And many of his tribespeople accepted it as fact. Jesus came out of the desert stating that he was the Son of God made incarnate. And, people accepted it (only a few at the time, but enough to start something). Mohammed wrote new scriptures, declaring them to be the Word of Allah. And, people accepted them. Joseph Smith discovered new writings from God. And, people accepted them (again, only a few, but enough).

(On another side note: why is it only the peoples who’ve inherited the Judaic religion who’ve had prophets of God? Why not in Asia? Or Africa? Or India? Or pre-Columbian America? They had religious and spiritual leaders, but no one declared they were speaking God’s word.)

In every case, these prophets appeared and said that they had the new Word of God (in one form or another) – and people accepted them. They were not universally recognised, but enough people believed in them to start a new religion.

If someone appeared today and said “God has spoken to me. I have His Word, and will speak it to everyone.”, would we accept him (or her) as a prophet? Would we believe them? How would we know if they were speaking the Truth? It’s not enough to rely on miracles – not all prophets have been miracle workers. We can’t simply say they’re crazy and just having hallucinations – that same reasoning could apply to the prophets we HAVE accepted. Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Joseph Smith, et al, saw and heard things which noone else did, but we don’t think they’re crazy.

So, what if *I* started shouting “I have heard the new Word of God!”. Would you call me crazy, or accept me as a prophet? How would you tell the difference?
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10-30-2009, 11:27 PM
Post: #2
RE: A new prophet?
(10-30-2009 08:48 PM)simonjp Wrote:  So, what if *I* started shouting “I have heard the new Word of God!”. Would you call me crazy, or accept me as a prophet? How would you tell the difference?

I would get to know "you" and "your" beliefs.
If "you" are a good person with good intentions and what "you" say does not conflict with what I believe than "you" are a prophet.

If "you" try to teach people that God wants us to do immoral things than "you" are not a prophet but a wolf in sheep's clothing.

A true follower of God is Selfless and places God above all else.
But at the same time a true follower of God would not be an immoral person.

The Anti-Christ will seem like the Christ in fact a lot of people will think she is the Christ. But the Anti-Christians will be hypocrites and wolves in sheep's clothing.
The Anti-Christ will be a person driven by a Lust for power and money.
You will know it is the Anti-Christ when you see that She keeps her money for herself and gives nothing to the poor.
You will Know it is the Anti-Christ when she sets brothers against each other, and causes Nations to start wars.
The Anti-Christians will hide amongst actual Christians.
For Lucifer will Blind you with his Light.

The Second coming of Christ will be a woman. She will be given the name Sophia for she is Wise and the Holy Spirit incarnate.
She will be born into a Wealthy Eastern family, but from an early age she will reject her wealth to live with the poor.
She will not Misjudge people, and she will show compassion to people of all faiths.

She will convert the Anti-Christ into a Neo-Christian.
The Anti-Christians will strike out against her and kill her.
She will be reborn into another body again and again for as long as their is an Underdog she will be their.

One more thing I respect Eastern Religions that do not contain Prophetic Traditions but some of those people did have "Forecasters." It's just that most of the time people thought that these "Weirdo's" who claim to see Visions must be crazy. So it is simply that Eastern Traditions are built more solid on Logic. Whereas most Western Traditions seem to rely on Faith.

Most of the Prophets where men because of Sexism. Read some of Proverbs where it says "Wisdom calls aloud in the streets."

I am "Real," At least that's what I think.
I don't want to be called a Prophet just a person who has Premonitions.
What I say is not written in stone, it can change, it could be wrong, or it could happen word for word.

People don't seem to understand that the Point of a Premonition is that it can be Prevented if we Change.
"And that is why I say unto you,
The only never changing thing
is that forever there are changes,
Therefore I say,
Be like a palm tree that sways with the wind
rather than a Great Oak that
snaps when the storm comes."

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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10-30-2009, 11:49 PM
Post: #3
RE: A new prophet?
First: Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them) were already prophets and not pretending to be a Prophet, they were human beings and they are not gods and they are not the sons of God. But this is Smith was attorney, not a prophet. The last of the prophets Muhammad (peace be upon him) and there is no Prophet after him, because he said that he is the last of the prophets.And has said that some from people will come for claiming prophethood, and each day brings evidence of the sincerity of what he said since 14 century.

What were the characters of the prophets?
And the prophets do not fall into miscreant nor in the great sin and disobedience, in the small meanness or meanness, and all this before and after that Allah reveale to them .
toldl the truth, had Balvtanp, honest, chastity, courage.
Prophets are the best creatures of God. They are the elite people, sent by God to reach the the interests of the people of their religion and worldly affairs, they had good moral character and good qualities.
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10-31-2009, 12:12 AM
Post: #4
RE: A new prophet?
(10-30-2009 11:49 PM)vonason Wrote:  First: Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them) were already prophets and not pretending to be a Prophet, they were human beings and they are not gods and they are not the sons of God. But this is Smith was attorney, not a prophet. The last of the prophets Muhammad (peace be upon him) and there is no Prophet after him, because he said that he is the last of the prophets.And has said that some from people will come for claiming prophethood, and each day brings evidence of the sincerity of what he said since 14 century.

What were the characters of the prophets?
And the prophets do not fall into miscreant nor in the great sin and disobedience, in the small meanness or meanness, and all this before and after that Allah reveale to them .
toldl the truth, had Balvtanp, honest, chastity, courage.
Prophets are the best creatures of God. They are the elite people, sent by God to reach the the interests of the people of their religion and worldly affairs, they had good moral character and good qualities.

I disagree with some of that.

Mosses was not a perfect person, he killed a man.
Muhammad learned about Christianity and Judaism but he never really studied it in detail. Muhammad had his own "Visions" that can still be taken into account. I just don't agree with every thing that the Quran says.
Jesus had a moment of doubt where he almost chose Power over Salvation. But Jesus rebuked Satan and died on a cross.

Even though these people where imperfect they became "sons of God."
A son of God is not some one who is born to a virgin it is some one who has submitted to Gods will.
A "son of God" has no power except what is given to him from Above.

For the longest time the Angel Michael was the voice of God, but Michael has fallen and when he fell his name forever changed to Lucifer.


Jesus was given the authority to forgive sins from God, and Jesus can even ask a Demon to repent.
One of the Angels whom Jesus repented was Sophia the first Angel.
Sophia is the Holy Spirit she is symbolized by Wisdom and her brother is Knowledge. For the longest time Sophia was a slave to Lucifer but when Jesus defeated Lucifer she was set free.
Jesus is now the King of Hell.

I can't believe that there will ever be a last Prophet.
I respect that you Honor Muhammad but I don't agree with every thing that the Fallen Angel Gabriel told him.

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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10-31-2009, 12:42 AM (This post was last modified: 10-31-2009 12:58 AM by simonjp.)
Post: #5
RE: A new prophet?
(10-30-2009 11:27 PM)Azrael17 Wrote:  I would get to know "you" and "your" beliefs.
If "you" are a good person with good intentions and what "you" say does not conflict with what I believe than "you" are a prophet.

So, you would only accept me as a prophet if I agree with your beliefs? Jesus' teachings conflicted with what was believed by the Jews around him. So did Mohammed's. And Moses'. Even Joseph Smith. They all said things which conflicted with the beliefs of people around them.

Moses said there was only one true God, and that the tribes should not worship the idols that they had at the time.
Jesus said that the Jews had lost their way, and needed to love God.
Mohammed said that Jesus was NOT the son of God.
Joseph Smith said that the Jews came from America.

According to your criteria, you would have rejected ALL of these as prophets, because they conflicted the beliefs held by people at the time.

But, isn't that what a prophet is SUPPOSED to do? The reason that God chooses a new prophet is to teach people new things, or to remind them of old things they've forgotten. So, a prophet is supposed to bring conflict. Otherwise, they're not a prophet at all - they're just another apostle or teacher or disciple, teaching you things you already know.
(10-30-2009 11:49 PM)vonason Wrote:  First: Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them) were already prophets and not pretending to be a Prophet, they were human beings and they are not gods and they are not the sons of God. But this is Smith was attorney, not a prophet. The last of the prophets Muhammad (peace be upon him) and there is no Prophet after him, because he said that he is the last of the prophets.

Moses was a herder.
Jesus was a carpenter until he was 30 years old.
Muhammed was a merchant until he was about 40 years old.
Joseph Smith was a seer in his teenage years.

There was nothing special about these people until they stood up and said "I have heard the Word of God.".

And, many people have said this over the centuries. Why did people believe that Moses and Jesus and Muhammed and Joseph Smith were prophets or representatives of God, but not believe in any of the others? What made these particular people prophets, and not just crazy people saying "I hear voices."...?

If I say that I hear the voice of God, or that I have been visited by angels, how do you KNOW that I haven't? If you had lived in Muhammed's time, you would not have heard the angel who spoke to him. You would only have heard a 40-year old merchant saying "I have heard the Word of God.". Why would you believe him, and not his crazy neighbour who says the same thing?
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10-31-2009, 02:59 AM
Post: #6
RE: A new prophet?
(10-31-2009 12:42 AM)simonjp Wrote:  
(10-30-2009 11:27 PM)Azrael17 Wrote:  I would get to know "you" and "your" beliefs.
If "you" are a good person with good intentions and what "you" say does not conflict with what I believe than "you" are a prophet.

So, you would only accept me as a prophet if I agree with your beliefs? Jesus' teachings conflicted with what was believed by the Jews around him. So did Mohammed's. And Moses'. Even Joseph Smith. They all said things which conflicted with the beliefs of people around them.

Moses said there was only one true God, and that the tribes should not worship the idols that they had at the time.
Jesus said that the Jews had lost their way, and needed to love God.
Mohammed said that Jesus was NOT the son of God.
Joseph Smith said that the Jews came from America.

According to your criteria, you would have rejected ALL of these as prophets, because they conflicted the beliefs held by people at the time.

But, isn't that what a prophet is SUPPOSED to do? The reason that God chooses a new prophet is to teach people new things, or to remind them of old things they've forgotten. So, a prophet is supposed to bring conflict. Otherwise, they're not a prophet at all - they're just another apostle or teacher or disciple, teaching you things you already know.
(10-30-2009 11:49 PM)vonason Wrote:  First: Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them) were already prophets and not pretending to be a Prophet, they were human beings and they are not gods and they are not the sons of God. But this is Smith was attorney, not a prophet. The last of the prophets Muhammad (peace be upon him) and there is no Prophet after him, because he said that he is the last of the prophets.

Moses was a herder.
Jesus was a carpenter until he was 30 years old.
Muhammed was a merchant until he was about 40 years old.
Joseph Smith was a seer in his teenage years.

There was nothing special about these people until they stood up and said "I have heard the Word of God.".

And, many people have said this over the centuries. Why did people believe that Moses and Jesus and Muhammed and Joseph Smith were prophets or representatives of God, but not believe in any of the others? What made these particular people prophets, and not just crazy people saying "I hear voices."...?

If I say that I hear the voice of God, or that I have been visited by angels, how do you KNOW that I haven't? If you had lived in Muhammed's time, you would not have heard the angel who spoke to him. You would only have heard a 40-year old merchant saying "I have heard the Word of God.". Why would you believe him, and not his crazy neighbour who says the same thing?

Okay so may be your right,
A prophet is some one who Brings Conflict, Not necessarily war but at least a good debate amongst people.

The Difference is that these people where already Respected by the people who knew them.
Where as the other people who ranted might just have been spouting none-sense.

I will say that people will Chose who to Believe in.
In most cases it is the people with a gift for Public speaking that turn into your Definition of a Prophet.
So the main reason is because those "crazy" people could not get their message across. Whereas people could understand the "Prophets" as clear as day.

I once tried to say hello to a little Chinese girl in Chinese. I mistakenly told her "Would you like a kitty pie." The Little girl ran away crying then the Mother explained to me what just happened.

The "Prophets" where people that "the people" could relate to.
Whereas the "Pagans" where any one that "the people" could not understand.

In fact I think most of the people who where burned for being Witches where actually just Scientist and Philosophers.

So I don't see the Death of Jesus as my Salvation,
I see it as a bunch of Idiots didn't understand a Smart person so they killed him out of Fear.

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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10-31-2009, 03:16 AM
Post: #7
RE: A new prophet?
[/quote]

The Difference is that these people where already Respected by the people who knew them.
Where as the other people who ranted might just have been spouting none-sense.

I will say that people will Chose who to Believe in.
In most cases it is the people with a gift for Public speaking that turn into your Definition of a Prophet.
So the main reason is because those "crazy" people could not get their message across. Whereas people could understand the "Prophets" as clear as day.
[/quote]

Noone knew who Jesus was until he started preaching. His birth was celebrated, but he was an ordinary boy and man for the next 30 years.
Muhammed was just a local business man, noone special.
Joseph Smith was actually considered a little bit eccentric, and was NOT respected.

None of these prophets had the respect of the people around them until AFTER they started preaching.

I have a gift for public speaking. People relate to me very well. I can express my ideas very clearly. I am respected by the people who know me, and they believe me when I tell them things.

If I start saying that "I have the Word of God.", would these people (who know and respect me) continue to believe me? What would make me a prophet, and not just a crazy person who hears voices in his head?
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10-31-2009, 06:25 AM (This post was last modified: 10-31-2009 06:30 AM by catholicstation.)
Post: #8
RE: A new prophet?

The Difference is that these people where already Respected by the people who knew them.
Where as the other people who ranted might just have been spouting none-sense.

[/quote]
How do we Identify a Prophet?

When HaShem sends a prophet, He gives the prophet a sign to show that he is a true prophet. However, not every person who shows such a sign is automatically accepted. The prophet must be known to be a great, wise, and righteous person. If he is such a person, then we are commanded to accept and obey him if he comes with a sign.

The sign that a prophet must give to prove he is genuine need not be a miracle. He must predict a future event, if his prophecy is fulfilled with perfect accuracy then we believe him, if, however, even the smallest detail is inaccurate then he is a false prophet. We must test a prophet in this manner several times but we are not permitted to overly test him.

Even if a prophet passes all of these tests if he attempts to contradict the Torah in any way he is automatically shown to be false. This requirement can disqualify any prophet at any time. A prophet may not add or detract from the Torah in any way, this applies to both the Written Torah and the Oral Torah. Therefore, any prophet who claims that a certain mitzvah is no longer required or that a new mitzvah has been added to the Torah shows himself to be a false prophet and is judged accordingly. This is true even if he performs miracles

Prophecy is a difficult state to obtain because, in addition to the demands it makes on the individual, it also requires a very high state of holiness in the general environment

Despite the great stature of the prophets, no matter of Jewish law can be decided by the means of prophecy or any other form of Divine inspiration. When a question of Jewish law is concerned a prophet is no better than any other sage

A prophet who is shown to be false is liable for the death penalty as it says in Devarim 18:20, "But the prophet who shall willfully speak a word in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or one who speaks in the name of the gods of others - that prophet shall die."
Laws of Rebels include nine commandments, three positive commandments and six negative commandments, which are: (1) to act according to the Torah as the Great Rabbinical Court declares it; (2) not to deviate from their words; (3) not to add to the Torah either in the commandments of the Written Law or in the interpretation that we have learned from tradition; (4) not to take away from either of them; (5) not to curse one's father or mother; (6) not to strike one's father or mother; (7) to honor one's father and mother; (8) to fear one's father and mother; (9) that a son shall not be stubborn and rebellious against the voice of his father and mother.

1) Signs of the spirit of God: fits with teaching of Church; serious; gives light to the soul, docility, discretion: no hurriedness or exaggerations; humble thoughts; confidence in God, rightness of intention, patience in suffering, self-denial, sincerity and simplicity in conduct, no attachments not even to the gifts, great desire to imitate Christ in all things (a very strong sign), gentleness, kindness;

2) Signs of the evil spirit: (the opposite of the above--spirit of falseness or lie, suggestion of useless things, curious things, impertinent things, darkness, restlessness in the soul, a bold, obstinate spirit, many indiscretions, pride, lack of hope, disobedience, vanity, self-satisfaction, impatience, rebellion of the passions, hypocrisy, pretense, attachment to earthly things, forgetfulness of Christ and of imitating him, a false charity including bitter zeal, indiscretion
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10-31-2009, 07:07 AM
Post: #9
RE: A new prophet?
(10-31-2009 06:25 AM)catholicstation Wrote:  A prophet may not add or detract from the Torah in any way, this applies to both the Written Torah and the Oral Torah. Therefore, any prophet who claims that a certain mitzvah is no longer required or that a new mitzvah has been added to the Torah shows himself to be a false prophet and is judged accordingly.

So, according to this, only Abraham was a prophet. Everyone who came after him, and added to the Torah in any way, was not a prophet. Moses, Miriam, Isaiah, Samuel, etc - all these later people added to the Torah. Therefore, they are not prophets.

Of course, this also excludes Jesus, Muhammed and Joseph Smith.

But, if a prophet can not add to the Torah, what is his purpose? If he can only say the things which have already been said, if he can only repeat the words which have already been written, why would HaShem send a new prophet?


(10-31-2009 06:25 AM)catholicstation Wrote:  He must predict a future event, if his prophecy is fulfilled with perfect accuracy then we believe him, if, however, even the smallest detail is inaccurate then he is a false prophet. We must test a prophet in this manner several times but we are not permitted to overly test him.

What prophecies did Abraham make? Were they fulfilled within his lifetime? Is that how people knew AT THE TIME that he was a prophet? Or did they have to wait until after he died for the prophecies to come true, and then learn that he was a prophet?
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10-31-2009, 07:24 AM
Post: #10
RE: A new prophet?
(10-31-2009 07:07 AM)simonjp Wrote:  
(10-31-2009 06:25 AM)catholicstation Wrote:  A prophet may not add or detract from the Torah in any way, this applies to both the Written Torah and the Oral Torah. Therefore, any prophet who claims that a certain mitzvah is no longer required or that a new mitzvah has been added to the Torah shows himself to be a false prophet and is judged accordingly.

So, according to this, only Abraham was a prophet. Everyone who came after him, and added to the Torah in any way, was not a prophet. Moses, Miriam, Isaiah, Samuel, etc - all these later people added to the Torah. Therefore, they are not prophets.

Of course, this also excludes Jesus, Muhammed and Joseph Smith.

But, if a prophet can not add to the Torah, what is his purpose? If he can only say the things which have already been said, if he can only repeat the words which have already been written, why would HaShem send a new prophet?


(10-31-2009 06:25 AM)catholicstation Wrote:  He must predict a future event, if his prophecy is fulfilled with perfect accuracy then we believe him, if, however, even the smallest detail is inaccurate then he is a false prophet. We must test a prophet in this manner several times but we are not permitted to overly test him.

What prophecies did Abraham make? Were they fulfilled within his lifetime? Is that how people knew AT THE TIME that he was a prophet? Or did they have to wait until after he died for the prophecies to come true, and then learn that he was a prophet?

You were not listening Moses was the Greatest Prophet - Passed to Peter Though Jesus and now resides in The Vatican

If You want to know whom a "New Prophet" is contact The Pope
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