Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
A question for Muslims (preferrably those who can speak Arabic)
04-19-2011, 02:05 PM
Post: #1
A question for Muslims (preferrably those who can speak Arabic)
Would you mind telling me who is "Qutham bin abdillat"? (قثم بن عبد اللات) (just a translation of the name).

I'm not sure if there are English sources about this topic - but it's about Muhammad's personality before Islam.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
05-18-2011, 06:58 PM
Post: #2
RE: A question for Muslims (preferrably those who can speak Arabic)
Do you read Arabic?
This link you can find what you want
v
v
v
v
v
http://www.sbeelalislam.net/index.php?op...&Itemid=30

..

{إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ وَعَمِلُواْ الصَّالِحَاتِ وَأَخْبَتُواْ إِلَى رَبِّهِمْ أُوْلَـئِكَ أَصْحَابُ الجَنَّةِ هُمْ فِيهَا خَالِدُونَ }
هود23
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
06-24-2011, 06:46 AM
Post: #3
RE: A question for Muslims (preferrably those who can speak Arabic)
(04-19-2011 02:05 PM)HamzahA Wrote:  Would you mind telling me who is "Qutham bin abdillat"? (قثم بن عبد اللات) (just a translation of the name).

I'm not sure if there are English sources about this topic - but it's about Muhammad's personality before Islam.

Hello,
I registered on this forum specially to reply your question Smile and I saw there are some question's answers was not very accurate.
I am Arabic speaking person and will give you the information about this. This was first mentioned by a German orientalist and without any resources of course, then it was mentioned by Tunisian person that Muhammad's (SAW) name before Islam was like you said! and without any sources too!
I just want to ask you something, I think you have knowledge about Islam. So you know how was disbelievers think and act about the new religion (Islam). So if Muhammad (SAW) was Qutham or any thing else, they surely will say it and use it against Islam. But they didn't.
In Madina, there was Jews, if what you said is true then they will surely used it against him in any way. But they didn't.
The prophet Muhammad (SAW) has sent many letters to the kings of that time. He used his name Muhammad, and no one said that he had different name.
His uncle was one of the disbelievers (Abu Lahab), so why don't he said anything about his nephew's new name?
Muhammad (SAW) was his name from his birth to his death. There is nothing can say different.
I hope this was enough information.

"They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse" Quran 9:32
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
06-24-2011, 07:43 AM
Post: #4
RE: A question for Muslims (preferrably those who can speak Arabic)
Hello,
Well the first thing you should keep on your mind is that I don't REALLY believe that his name was Qutham - I consider it just a possibility, since we barely know anything about Muhammad's life before Islam.
Abu Lahab was an unbeliever, to me I consider this a problem, many of Muhammad's relatives are unbelievers, and they are the ones who (supposedly) know him best.

Another thing is that Islamic Historians began writing at about 700 AD (starting with Ibn Zubayr as far as I know) (after about 70 years after Muhammad's death) - isn't that weird? Why didn't they start earlier?

Thanks for the information though.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
06-24-2011, 09:28 AM
Post: #5
RE: A question for Muslims (preferrably those who can speak Arabic)
(06-24-2011 07:43 AM)HamzahA Wrote:  Hello,
Well the first thing you should keep on your mind is that I don't REALLY believe that his name was Qutham - I consider it just a possibility, since we barely know anything about Muhammad's life before Islam.

Hello,
I was telling about the name not about if you believe it's true or not. And about when you said "we barely know anything about Muhammad's life before Islam". No we know from Muslims and disbelievers too. Muhammad (SAW) was like any other men in Mecca before Islam but he was famous in these things:
He never did adultery while the community was treat adultery as normal thing for men before Islam and there was houses opened for it in that time, the evidence is when Islam prohibited it, no one said "see,he was do it and now he prohibit it!".
He never drank alcohol in his life, how can we know? well drinking alcohol was normal thing too, so when Islam prohibited it we didnt hear anyone said about if he was drinking and now he prohibit it.
Gambling was normal thing too, and as I wrote no one said anything when Islam prohibited it.
He never did wrong things, if he did, then we must see disbelievers use it against him but they never said anything wrong about him before Islam.
He was known in Mecca as "The truthful and trustworthy", so many people was trust him and the story of his marriage with the lady Khadija (pbuh) is famous and how she asked him to marry her.


(06-24-2011 07:43 AM)HamzahA Wrote:  Abu Lahab was an unbeliever, to me I consider this a problem, many of Muhammad's relatives are unbelievers, and they are the ones who (supposedly) know him best.

This is not a problem in him or in Islam. There was many reason for them to reject his message for example: (honor) because Islam teach that there is no differences between people (rich or poor, white or black... etc). Muhammad (SAW) suddenly said to them you are wrong, stop worshiping pagan gods, change your faith...etc . Of course it was new thing to them and if we look at history (not religions only) we will see anyone came with new idea, people will reject him.
In the other hand, we see other prophets had disbelievers from their families, the most famous was Ibrahim (Abraham), his father was the nearest one who rejected his message.


(06-24-2011 07:43 AM)HamzahA Wrote:  Another thing is that Islamic Historians began writing at about 700 AD (starting with Ibn Zubayr as far as I know) (after about 70 years after Muhammad's death) - isn't that weird? Why didn't they start earlier?

This is normal because they knew him in real life (i.e. it wast history). And they started to write it to introduce it to the new generations.


(06-24-2011 07:43 AM)HamzahA Wrote:  Thanks for the information though.

You are welcome Smile

"They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse" Quran 9:32
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
06-24-2011, 05:50 PM
Post: #6
RE: A question for Muslims (preferrably those who can speak Arabic)
Quote:No we know from Muslims and disbelievers too. Muhammad (SAW) was like any other men in Mecca before Islam but he was famous in these things:
(citation needed)

Quote:He never did adultery while the community was treat adultery as normal thing for men before Islam and there was houses opened for it in that time, the evidence is when Islam prohibited it, no one said "see,he was do it and now he prohibit it!".
If I say he committed adultery I need evidence, if you say you are certain he never committed adultery you need evidence too! As I said we don't really know much about Muhammad's life in his first 40 years. I don't think people were paying attention to him as they did when he claimed prophecy. To be sure he never committed adultery, we must know what he did in every second in his life.

Quote:He never drank alcohol in his life, how can we know? well drinking alcohol was normal thing too, so when Islam prohibited it we didnt hear anyone said about if he was drinking and now he prohibit it.
Actually, no.
"Narrated by Gaber bin Abdullah:
We were with the messenger of Allah, PBUH and he asked for a drink. One of his men said: "Oh Messenger of Allah, Can we offer you wine to drink?" He said Yes. He (Gaber) went out looking for the drink and came back with a cup of wine. The messenger (Peace Be Upon him) asked, “Have you covered it with a twig in a transverse manner” He (Gaber) said, “Yes” and he (Muhammad) drank."
Sahih Muslim #3753

Quote:He never did wrong things, if he did, then we must see disbelievers use it against him but they never said anything wrong about him before Islam.
Okay, here's a small list that just came up to my mind:
1- Saying that whoever changes his religion (from Islam) should be killed
2- Raiding caravans (the reason of the "invasion" of Badr was that it was the 7th caravan that Muhammad raided)
3- Invading the tribe Banu Qurayza and killing about 900 men (if I remember correctly) and killed kids who just had pubic hares for considering them adults, and took the women and children of that tribe as slaves.
4- Killing Um Qirfa in a cruel way, Al-Suyuti mentions this way was by tying each leg of her to a horse and making the two horses run in opposite directions.
5- Bribing people to join Islam
6- Having sex with Aisha at the age of 9.
7- Making non-Muslims either pay taxes (Al Jizya) or get killed.

If you think I'm wrong in any of these - please say so and I'll bring references. Don't forget that these just came up to my mind while I'm writing this post.

Quote:This is not a problem in him or in Islam. There was many reason for them to reject his message for example: (honor) because Islam teach that there is no differences between people (rich or poor, white or black... etc). Muhammad (SAW) suddenly said to them you are wrong, stop worshiping pagan gods, change your faith...etc . Of course it was new thing to them and if we look at history (not religions only) we will see anyone came with new idea, people will reject him.
In the other hand, we see other prophets had disbelievers from their families, the most famous was Ibrahim (Abraham), his father was the nearest one who rejected his message.
Actually, Muhammad mentions pagan gods in the Qur'an (Al Uzza', Al Manat, and Al-Lat) and the biographies of Muhammad say that the pagans were very satisfied and happy when they heard Muhammad reciting these verses but later he abrogated that verse with another one and they became angry. Once again if you want I'll bring references.
If we look at the chronological order of the Qur'an, we see the early Suras were advocating peace and advisory, while the later Suras (after Muhammad gained power) started to make laws and killing the unbelievers. Since there is something called Abrogation in the Qur'an, newer verses abrogate older verses, and Al Tauba is the last Sura of the Qur'an and it's very violent.

Quote:This is normal because they knew him in real life (i.e. it wast history). And they started to write it to introduce it to the new generations.
They were born after he died! There works was based on tales they heard from people who lived at Muhammad's time. That's why always in the begin of each Hadith it begins with someone telling the story that Muhammad said etc, or someone said that someone said that someone said Muhammad said: etc...
I think it's called Al Sanad or Al Mitin. Probably Al Sanad.


I don't mean to be offensive or mean in this post. Sorry if I did.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
06-25-2011, 06:47 PM
Post: #7
RE: A question for Muslims (preferrably those who can speak Arabic)
(06-24-2011 05:50 PM)HamzahA Wrote:  I don't mean to be offensive or mean in this post. Sorry if I did.

All of that and you wasn't offensive Big Grin
What you wrote are old things and all of them was replied and everyone can search the Islamic sites and see the replies for them. There is no new thing for me.

"They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse" Quran 9:32
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  What do Muslims think of non-muslims, eg. jews etc. - 50 mins vid Hamza 0 670 05-02-2013 02:07 PM
Last Post: Hamza
  How do ordinary Muslims treat gay Muslims? Stonecold 137 21,251 05-01-2013 03:13 AM
Last Post: Hamza
  Reasons Why Muslims And Non-Muslims Can Benefit From Quran Equally MomenaMinhas 6 1,315 12-13-2012 03:36 PM
Last Post: KAYSER
  Arabic word for "Free will"? Aum 20 6,372 10-29-2012 06:33 AM
Last Post: Aum
  Question for Muslims or non-Muslim Arab speakers about word in Umarii Treaty TG123 2 828 10-10-2012 10:07 AM
Last Post: muslim girl
  Question to Muslims about the Quran TG123 4 1,165 09-24-2012 06:48 PM
Last Post: TG123
  Learn Arabic smart-girl 2 780 02-22-2011 02:32 AM
Last Post: Abu Rashid
Question How long does it take to memorise the Koran in Arabic? Stonecold 6 3,149 02-02-2011 10:07 AM
Last Post: Hamza Abdulhakim
  Alwhh, Aalah and Allah is the same in hebrew, aramaic and arabic Creature 4 5,898 12-21-2010 02:14 PM
Last Post: biomystic
  Muslims taking moral responsibility for the violent acts of Muslims biomystic 32 3,746 12-18-2010 05:16 AM
Last Post: Zagreus



User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)