Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Abortion - from other thread
08-07-2017, 04:06 AM
Post: #1
Abortion - from other thread
(08-06-2017 07:32 PM)Sue D. Wrote:  Abortion -- unless it's a Natural abortion -- is a person , human being, deciding to end the life of an innocent human being very much alive inside the woman's / teenagers womb.

It's not a human being, it's called an embryo.

(08-06-2017 07:32 PM)Sue D. Wrote:  And how many rapes result in pregnancies and what do you think happens in some other countries where girls are raped at that young age and even younger and Do give birth to perfectly healthy babies and are healthy in the process.

Does a young girl giving birth to a healthy baby say anything about the mental (and possibly physical) damage done to a girl or woman who has been raped?

(08-06-2017 07:32 PM)Sue D. Wrote:  Pregnancy can 'potentially' kill women who have high risk pregnancies -- they are willing to endure Lots of whatever it takes to protect that baby that's growing inside of them in order to give birth to their baby.

The discussion is not about " high risk pregnancies" - again, it's about the damage done to a girl or woman who has been raped.

(08-06-2017 07:32 PM)Sue D. Wrote:  And, obviously 12 yr olds are not meant to get pregnant. But it also depends on the individual 12 yr old. Some 12 yr. old's are fairly mature looking and have the hormones of teenagers.

Are you saying that some 12 yr olds (the ones that are fairly mature looking and have the hormones of teenagers) are meant to get pregnant?? (this is what saying "are not meant to - but" is implying)

And if so, is rape as a means to get them pregnant then acceptable in your opinion?

(08-06-2017 07:32 PM)Sue D. Wrote:  Everyone of us on this forum were once a fetus living in our mother's womb. Weren't You important way back in Your mother's womb.

You were once an atheist in your mother's womb - wasn't that important?

(in other words - your remark has got nothing to do with the subject of discussion)

Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-07-2017, 06:20 AM
Post: #2
RE: Abortion - from other thread
Quote:It's not a human being, it's called an embryo.

Here here.
Indeed, we have no reason to think that an embryo can think, or feel, or care about anything. All the evidence suggests that life grows as we grow, that experience grows as we grow.
The notion of 'souls' is itself silly in my opinion, but add the nonsense idea that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception, and you've got some real primitive nonsense on your hands.

The way forward is simple, treat abortion laws the same way all laws are formed, leave religious ideas out of it. go off evidence only, proper science and proper logical negotiation.
Without religious ideas in the way the serious discussion can begin.

~~~

when we enter a discussion on matters of discordance, we should search for truth not victory, In this manner we always win, there are no losers.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-07-2017, 10:01 AM
Post: #3
RE: Abortion - from other thread
I agree that religious ideas should be left out of the equation as to when life begins. I also recognize, though, that science has not- to date- provided a completely satisfactory answer/explanation on the issue.

As such, we are obliged to set some sort of 'marker'- albeit however arbitrary it may seem- as a starting point for legal purposes. When science is able to pinpoint when life- human life, and not just a conglomeration of cells- begins, then we can move that marker up or down until we get it right. Until then, sadly, there will be no consensus and everyone will be both right and wrong at the same time according to whom one asks.

When someone asks "What would Jesus do?" remind them that flipping tables and chasing people with a whip is entirely possible.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-07-2017, 10:52 AM
Post: #4
RE: Abortion - from other thread
Abortion -- unless it is a 'natural' abortion -- is a person willfully ending the life of a unborn child. That child is a living person with a heart - beat. Call it what you want ; embryo, fetus -- it's still a child that has been conceived through a male and female -- it can be felt moving around -- it gets hiccups in the uterus -- it Grows or a pregnant woman couldn't be observed getting Bigger and Bigger and Bigger. Babies' outside life begins when it can breathe on it's own outside of the womb. The mother's nutrition is feeding her baby all during that pregnancy.

I've been pregnant 4 times -- the very first pregnancy was tremendous -- feeling the flutter of movement from the baby. And the Dr. hearing that heart beat for the first time. Totally awesome.

How can religion possibly be left out of the equation -- God is the giver Of life. Do you Really believe that the first set of lungs started 'breathing' on their Own? Or the first heart started beating 'on it's own"?!

The baby inutero is totally dependent on the mother's thinking, feeling and caring about what She's doing to help the healthy development Of said child. And After the birth of said baby -- Still totally dependent upon a responsible person to care for it's every need.

The 'soul' is what makes us human. Our ability to care about one another. To love, honor each other. The spiritual part of a person.


Herm -- I'm So used to most of my comments 'not having anything to do with the discussion at hand' in Your opinion. Mostly I choose to ignore 'said' comments on your part.

"Rape" is sexual intercourse without the permission of the person receiving 'said' attention. It can range anywhere from a gal getting mad at her boyfriend for having gotten her pregnant and 'yelling rape' to get him in legal trouble. TO forceful , purposeful sometimes fatal injury to the female involved.

And, then, the rape that brings about the conception of a baby. The physical, mental , psychological problems that can arise. Depends entirely on the situation. If the female is so traumatized by the rape itself and then finds herself Pregnant -- counseling would be an obvious 1st step. Her age and family circumstances / cultural situation would all be in the mix in making a decision. And there would be the possibility of 'enduring' a pregnancy and immediately giving the baby up for adoption.

Abortion is NOT an automatic cure-all --it's Still killing an unborn, helpless baby. And abortions Can result in physical problems --infections, a messed up abortion can It'self mess up a female's insides.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-07-2017, 11:23 AM
Post: #5
RE: Abortion - from other thread
If God did not exist, and we did, would babies still be born? Would anything at all be different about how they are conceived or gestated or born or raised if God were not in the picture at all?

When someone asks "What would Jesus do?" remind them that flipping tables and chasing people with a whip is entirely possible.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-07-2017, 12:34 PM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2017 03:38 PM by susanblange.)
Post: #6
RE: Abortion - from other thread
There are two parts to a person, the soul and the spirit. The Hebrew word for soul is "nephesh" and it means life. The soul is the body and the blood is the "life of the flesh". Leviticus 17:11. The soul is mortal and its death is permanent. The spirit is what lives on after the death of the soul and it can go to Heaven or Hell, die instantly, or be reincarnated. The Hebrew word for spirit is ruach and it means breath (inside of the body), or wind (outside of the body). The spirit enters a soul/body when a baby is born and takes that first breath. Miscarried, aborted, and stillborn life forms do not go to Heaven or Hell because they have no spirit. Genesis 2:7. "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul".
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-07-2017, 12:41 PM
Post: #7
RE: Abortion - from other thread
(08-07-2017 12:34 PM)susanblange Wrote:  There are two parts to a person, the soul and the spirit.
Herminator, do you have any biology charts?

..
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-07-2017, 03:22 PM
Post: #8
RE: Abortion - from other thread
(08-07-2017 10:52 AM)Sue D. Wrote:  How can religion possibly be left out of the equation

Ask that to a few billion couples non-stop procreating without any help from god Big Grin

(08-07-2017 11:23 AM)Caesar Saladin Wrote:  If God did not exist, and we did, would babies still be born? Would anything at all be different about how they are conceived or gestated or born or raised if God were not in the picture at all?

Indeed - see above - nothing would change Wink

In this respect, if there was no religion, the world would look exactly the same when it comes to procreation...

(08-07-2017 12:41 PM)IMtM Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 12:34 PM)susanblange Wrote:  There are two parts to a person, the soul and the spirit.

Herminator, do you have any biology charts?

Useless with people that deny the most basic facts, and rather go for fairy tales Rolleyes

Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-07-2017, 06:59 PM
Post: #9
RE: Abortion - from other thread
God Is the creator of life.

And who has made Herm the authority on the subject?!

And, no, the world would Not look exactly the same. Cause it wouldn't Be here.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-07-2017, 07:09 PM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2017 07:11 PM by PeterPants.)
Post: #10
RE: Abortion - from other thread
Sue, this is no place for your baseless assertions. Please quantify your claims.

Sue Wrote:The 'soul' is what makes us human. Our ability to care about one another. To love, honor each other. The spiritual part of a person.

no sue, thats just your particular religious belief. Noe evidence suggests its true. Humans are animals, other animals also can love each other. or not. 'souls' are an arbitrary extra complication that has NO explanation power, NO prediction power. nothing. its a totally useless and worthless assertion.
Ill say it again, move your absurd baseless magical nonsense to the side and lets start a serious discussion about actual facts shall we?

SueD Wrote:Abortion is NOT an automatic cure-all --it's Still killing an unborn, helpless baby

PeterPants Wrote:Indeed, we have no reason to think that an embryo can think, or feel, or care about anything. All the evidence suggests that life grows as we grow, that experience grows as we grow.

A fetus is not a baby Sue, maybe go learn what the words being discussed mean and then you can rejoin the conversation. your magical rubbish has no place in a serious discussion about abortion, unless of course you can demonstrate that any of it is true? but we've given you hundreds of chances to do that, and so far you've given us nothing but testimony and emotionally biased nonsense..

~~~

when we enter a discussion on matters of discordance, we should search for truth not victory, In this manner we always win, there are no losers.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Abortion? Rozylee 4 220 06-07-2017 01:08 PM
Last Post: Rozylee



User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)