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After forever
09-03-2011, 05:41 PM
Post: #1
After forever
Angelic Angelic Angelic
Have you ever thought about your soul,
can it be saved..
or perhaps you think that when you are dead,
you stay in your grave..
is God just a thought that is in your head,
or is He part of you..
is Christ just a name which you read in a book,
when you were at school
Angelic Angelic Angelic
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09-03-2011, 06:26 PM
Post: #2
RE: After forever
My soul doesn't need saving,saving from what?
don't care what happens to this old bag of bones, yuck.
Don't know what God Is,negative theology is not my thing, it cannot even be called existence. Existence is just one of his ideas He cant be kindness or love,right? He doesn't have any particular quality. If He is infinite, He,for lack of a better descriptive term, must have all of that, so, if this thing called God, the Ein Sof or whatever you want to call it, has no descriptors and can't even be called an existence, how is it any different than being nothing at all?
Its like the pink unicorn or spaghetti thing argument,this is my God but you cant see him he is pink,well not really,because he is invisible he has no color but I say hes pink to describe him to you since you cant see him,but he has no matter so he really has no existence or doesn't exist , Hey wait a minute, Isn't that what atheist keep saying.
Personally, I don't know what the word God means, never seen it, but I have some idea of what the Hebrew name means. It's a conjugation of the verb to be. More like saying That Which Causes Being. Not a particular thing or noun
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09-03-2011, 06:28 PM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2011 06:30 PM by Painkiller.)
Post: #3
RE: After forever
It's not a secret that Isa and I haven't exactly been getting on recently, but for making an entire thread simply out of Sabbath lyrics (some of my favourite Sabbath lyrics, as well) I have no choice but to give him a rep point.

Bugger.

Edit - That said, I think it's better without the smilies.



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09-03-2011, 06:38 PM
Post: #4
RE: After forever
And here I was getting all Kabbalist again ,Oy vey
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09-04-2011, 05:13 AM
Post: #5
RE: After forever
(09-03-2011 06:26 PM)Yefet Wrote:  My soul doesn't need saving,saving from what?

Gehenna??

(09-03-2011 06:26 PM)Yefet Wrote:  don't care what happens to this old bag of bones, yuck.

The verse refers to your eternal soul (not physical bones)..

(09-03-2011 06:26 PM)Yefet Wrote:  Personally, I don't know what the word God means, never seen it, but I have some idea of what the Hebrew name means. It's a conjugation of the verb to be. More like saying That Which Causes Being..

It's simply the English word (proper noun) for Hashem/Allah, isn't it? Angel
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09-04-2011, 07:10 AM
Post: #6
RE: After forever
(09-03-2011 05:41 PM)isa_muhammad Wrote:  Angelic Angelic Angelic
Have you ever thought about your soul,
can it be saved..
or perhaps you think that when you are dead,
you stay in your grave..
is God just a thought that is in your head,
or is He part of you..
is Christ just a name which you read in a book,
when you were at school
Angelic Angelic Angelic

Yes I have thought about it
Do not believe in it, so no
Do not assume I will think when I am dead
Rather up in smoke my body will go
Not usually in my head
Not a part of me, or anybody
Not just a name I read in a book
And not something I read about in school

If everyone was thinking the same thing, then no one would be thinking at all.
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09-04-2011, 07:42 AM
Post: #7
RE: After forever
Before Forever.

The viewer is being transported through swirling cloud, when a calming yet strong voice intones.

In the beginning there was no beginning.
In the beginning there was only the thought.
But the thought was still forming, it had been forming for infinity, it would exist for infinity after forming.
The thought was like the swirling cloud, formless.
After eternity, after infinity and before the beginning the thought took form.
The cloud coalesced and became.
The thought became.

The swirling cloud clears and the viewer is racing through darkness, but is surrounded by dots of light, rushing, rushing, rushing.

The thought became and everything became.
For everything was the thought and the thought was everything.

The viewer is slowing down, at first the lights are streaming ahead, but then they slow and begin to swirl like the clouds before. Then they begin to coalesce like the thought before.

And the thought took form and the thought is I.

The viewer is soaring through a universe of such magnificence and beauty it is hard to breathe.

The thought is I.

????????????????
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09-04-2011, 11:07 AM (This post was last modified: 09-04-2011 11:28 AM by Painkiller.)
Post: #8
RE: After forever
Equal (and others responding seriously to this) - After Forever was a song written by Black Sabbath in 1971, mostly I think as a reaction to their repuation as "occultists" and "satanists". They played with pretty crude, pantomine occult imagery on their first two albums, mostly as a gimmick and to tap into the success of horror films, but they'd never shown any serious interest in religion at all - the first few Sabbath albums are mostly about growing up in an industrialised shithole with no future and taking massive amounts of drugs. Some people started to take the Satanic thing way too seriously, though, and the band got seriously freaked out when they toured America and were greeted by Anton LaVey's Church Of Satan proclaiming them as prophets. It obviously got to them quite seriously, as after that they started distancing themselves from that image - one of the ways they did that was by writing a clearly pro-Christian song for their third album. Some people think it was a sincere statement of Christian faith from the band, but I think it's impossible to believe that without totally ignoring what the band (especially Ozzy) were getting upto around then. It's not a genuine statement of faith, it's a) an attempt to distance themselves from an occult reputation that was starting to scare them and b) a character-piece from the perspective of a person not generally represented in the Hard Rock/Metal music of the time - as a later verse says, "I think it's so sad, the opinion you had was the only one voiced". They were part of a scene where expressing mainstream Christian beliefs just wasn't done, and doing so was another little act of rebellion, just like the bleak doominess of their early material can be seen as a reaction against the flower power peace-and-love scene.

In other words, Isa's quoting song-lyrics written by people who were not Christians in any meaningful way, and who had a life-style Isa would find decadent and appalling. It's a good song, and pretty daring in context, it doesn't deserve to be picked apart like it was one of Isa's regular posts. It certainly doesn't deserve alternative lyrics that actually made me weep in despair.
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09-04-2011, 11:25 AM
Post: #9
RE: After forever
(09-04-2011 05:13 AM)isa_muhammad Wrote:  
(09-03-2011 06:26 PM)Yefet Wrote:  My soul doesn't need saving,saving from what?

Gehenna??

(09-03-2011 06:26 PM)Yefet Wrote:  don't care what happens to this old bag of bones, yuck.

The verse refers to your eternal soul (not physical bones)..

(09-03-2011 06:26 PM)Yefet Wrote:  Personally, I don't know what the word God means, never seen it, but I have some idea of what the Hebrew name means. It's a conjugation of the verb to be. More like saying That Which Causes Being..

It's simply the English word (proper noun) for Hashem/Allah, isn't it? Angel

In Jewish literature, and Kabbala in particular, the earth is considered the feminine aspect of the sefirot it really has to do with the mitzvah of yibum
The masculine aspect must come back to the feminine aspect or earth, to work on his short comings ,or return to Malchut.
It dosent,to a Kabbalist way of thinking anyway, have anything to do with reward or punishment of the soul.
The feminine aspect of the sefirot on the other hand, who are not commanded to be involved with Torah, as is the masculine part as explained in the Laws of Torah, can enter Gehinom and they do not need to reincarnate.Thus the feminine aspect is always considered higher or more holy than the masculine
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09-04-2011, 11:31 AM (This post was last modified: 09-04-2011 11:35 AM by isa_muhammad.)
Post: #10
RE: After forever
(09-04-2011 11:25 AM)Yefet Wrote:  It dosent,to a Kabbalist way of thinking anyway, have anything to do with reward or punishment of the soul.

I'm sorry, I don't get you .. what doesn't?



(09-04-2011 11:07 AM)Painkiller Wrote:  ..it doesn't deserve to be picked apart like it was one of Isa's regular posts..

Thanks a bunch! What's wrong with my regular posts ? Tongue

I picked 'these lyrics' as I thought them to be quite appropriate for discussion in the Christian section .. whether or not the members of Black Sabbath
are/were Christians or not is pretty much irrelevant, imo
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