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Ahmadi's Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam
02-20-2010, 10:12 PM (This post was last modified: 02-20-2010 10:24 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #1
Ahmadi's Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam
(02-19-2010 08:34 PM)Ahmadi Wrote:  ...we could team up. You could post some of my links or even posts in Muslim section and even on other forums. I do not claim any copy right to whatever I write.

With those words from Ahmadi I shall start a thread in the Muslim section, even though I am not a Muslim and even though this thread will likely be considered at least partly negative towards Islam.

We will be discussing Ahmadi's link, The Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam, written by the "Promised Messiah" of Ahmadi's sect of Islam.

Disclaimer: I admit I read the 201-page paper somewhat hurridly; I surely missed many things and am open to correction or amplification as necessary.

I had very low expectations when I started reading the paper, but I will say that I became at least partially impressed in some areas. My overall response, after reading the entire paper, can be summed up as: The good, the bad, and the almost. I will start with the bad.
"Everyone who listens to this paper from the beginning to the end, to my treatment of all the five themes prescribed for the conference, will, I am sure, develop a new faith and will perceive a new light shining within himself and will acquire a comprehensive commentary on the Holy Word of God. This paper of mine is free from human weakness, empty boasts and vain assertions" (p. 11, 20). [nonsense]

"God, the All-Knowing, has revealed to me that my paper will be declared supreme over all other papers" (p. 11, 20). [nonsense]

"The beauty of the paper is that it does not attack any religion, it only explains the beauty and the merits of Islam...in a manner which proves the perfection of Islam and its superiority over all other religions" (p. 18). [nonsense]

"...physical conditions certainly affect spiritual conditions...people who refrain altogether from eating meat gradually suffer a decline of the faculty of bravery....This is reinforced by the evidence of the divine law of nature that the herbivorous animals do not possess the same degree of courage as do carnivorous ones....Conversely those who are given to a diet consisting mainly of meat and eat very little of greens suffer a decline of meekness and humility. Those who adopt the middle course develop both types of moral qualities" (p. 30). [nonsense]

“…the soul is a fine light developed inside the body….From the very beginning its essence is present in the sperm…” (p. 33). [What about the female contribution?]

“It is possible that a person may develop mercy to a degree in which he would not permit himself…to harm the lice in his hair or the insects that are generated in…his brain” (p. 38). [Are insects generated in the brain?]

“…a person might refrain from wearing pearls or silk as both these are procured through the death of worms” (p. 38). [Are pearls procured through the death of worms?]

“…a person in pain might refuse to be bled by leeches and might prefer to suffer pain himself rather than desire the death of poor leeches” (p. 38). [Bleeding? Leeches?]

“…Arabic is the mother of all languages and…many Arabic words are to be found in all languages…Arabic was the universal language…” (p. 52). [nonsense]

“The Arabic word for swine is Khinzeer …which means: I see it very foul. Thus the very name that God Almighty gave to this animal at the beginning points to its uncleanness. It is a curious coincidence that in Hindi this animal is called Suar, which is a compound of Su and Ara. This also means: I see it very foul…It is not necessary to enter into a detailed exposition of the foulness of this animal. Everyone knows that it eats filth and is utterly shameless. Thus the reason for the prohibition of its flesh is obvious, as by the law of nature its flesh would have a foul effect on the body and the soul of one who eats it. As we have already demonstrated food affects a person's soul and there can be no doubt that the flesh of such a foul animal would also be foul” (pp. 52-53). [nonsense]

“…God Almighty has not instructed us that we might freely gaze at women.…We have been positively commanded not to look at their beauty, whether with pure intent or otherwise, nor to listen to their musical voices or to descriptions of their good looks, whether with pure intent or otherwise….If we place soft bread before a hungry dog, it would be vain to hope that the dog should pay no attention to it. Thus God Almighty desired that human faculties should not be provided with any occasion for secret functioning and should not be confronted with anything that might incite dangerous tendencies” (p. 58-59). [nonsense]

“…the words of Arabic have issued from the mouth of God and…this is the only language which is the language of the Most Holy God and is the most ancient tongue, and is the fountainhead of all types of knowledge, and is the mother of all languages….Arabic was the language of God that was with God since the beginning. Then that language came down to the world and people converted it into their respective languages” (p. 135). [nonsense]
“The Arabs are descended from Ishmael who was cut asunder…from Israel by Abraham himself and they had no part in the law of the Torah, as was written that they would not inherit from Isaac….Thus they were abandoned by those to whom they belonged and had no relationship with anyone else….Arabia alone was a country that was utterly unacquainted with such teachings and was the most backward of all. Its turn came last of all and it received the benefit of a universal prophethood, so that all countries might share again in the blessings of prophethood….The Holy Quran is the Perfect Book which undertook the entire project of human reform….there is no need of any other book beside the Holy Quran” (pp. 86-87). [Then why all the Haddiths? The Qur’an cannot be interpreted without them; and then why does Ahmadi's "Promised Messiah" have to write so many books of his own?]

“…a collection of contradictions can bestow no certain understanding” (p. 173). [Qur’an has apparent contradictions]

“…every human action is followed by a corresponding action on the part of God….All the inevitable consequences of our actions that have been appointed by God Almighty under the law of nature are all God’s actions, inasmuch as He is the Cause of causes….When they deviated from the right course and did not desire to tread along the straight path, the Divine action followed in that their hearts were made perverse….He who remains blind in this life will be blind in the hereafter also, and even more astray…” (p. 115-116). [Predestination; apparent contradiction with free will]
“…it is obvious that for the acquisition of God's love and real grace…there must be an appointed method for the acquisition of pure spirituality….That method is not that we should seek to meet God only through the exercise of our reason and by following our selfappointed ways. The doors which can only be opened by His powerful hands will not yield to our logic and philosophy” (p. 105). [Reason alone is insufficient; Islamic truths are supra-rational]

“I have often had experience in a complete state of wakefulness of meeting some persons who had died, and I saw that the bodies of some evil-doers and misguided ones were so dark as if they had been made of smoke. In short, I am personally acquainted with these matters and I affirm emphatically that, as God Almighty has said, every one is invested with a body after death which is either bright or dark. It would be a mistake on the part of man to seek to establish these fine insights through the mere exercise of reason….the knowledge of the life after death, which can only be acquired through holy visions, cannot be explained fully on the basis of reason” (p. 138). [Reason alone is insufficient; Islamic truths are supra-rational]

“…when a person is unable to appreciate something on the basis of his finite reason he criticises that which is based on wisdom and his criticism becomes proof that that point of wisdom is above and beyond the reach of average minds” (p. 167). [Reason alone is insufficient; Islamic truths are supra-rational]

Man’s own devices and his own conjectures cannot bestow true understanding upon him” (p. 185). [Reason alone is insufficient; Islamic truths are supra-rational]

“God Almighty does not require human beings to accept anything that is beyond their intellectual capacity, and only sets forth such doctrines as are comprehensible by men…” (p. 172). [Some tension with other passages about the insufficiency of reason]

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02-20-2010, 10:49 PM (This post was last modified: 02-20-2010 10:56 PM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #2
RE: Ahmadi's Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam
Stereophonic is responding to my post in a different thread, where I had introduced a book by Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, in defense of Islam. The title of that thread is 'How can a person know which religion is right?' I was introducing Islam in that perspective. If you will go to the Christianity forum you will see that he is my nemesis in that forum.

Please read the book for yourself, it was in fact in a debate format. The Christian who was competing in the debate could not adequately respond to the challenge. One would have hoped the Stereophonic would write something equivalent from his scriptures. But he has decided to poke some holes only, a few are based on the simple fact that scientific understanding has developed further in the last 100 years, so one or two metaphors are outdated. One would hope that Stereophonic or someone else would write a precise answer to the five questions from the Bible and then one could compare the merit of the two presentations.

Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was the Founder of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, demonstrated the superiority and practicality of Islamic teachings to a spell bound, interfaith gathering of more than 7000 people, through the reading of this thesis.

The Conference of Great Religions was held at Lahore on December 26-29, 1896. Representatives of various religions accepted Swami Sahib's invitation, the organizer of the conference, and the Conference of Great Religions was held during the Christmas holidays of 1896. Each of the speakers, from different religions, was required to address five questions published in advance by the committee. The five questions were:

1. The physical, moral and spiritual states of man
2. What is the state of man after death?
3. The object of man’s life and the means of its attainment,
4. The operation of the practical ordinances of the Law in this life and the next
5. Sources of Divine knowledge.

After receiving prophetic revelation from God, on the 21st of December, a week before the meeting, Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad publicly declared that his essay would be the most overpowering one. To read the book and comments about it please go to:

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Phi...-Islam.pdf

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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02-21-2010, 09:12 AM (This post was last modified: 02-21-2010 09:13 AM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #3
RE: Ahmadi's Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam
(02-20-2010 10:49 PM)Ahmadi Wrote:  Stereophonic...is my nemesis...he has decided to poke some holes...based on the simple fact that...one or two metaphors are outdated...

Ahmadi's words are his own nemesis, as anyone can see that when Ahmadi's "Promised Messiah" is bad, he is very, very bad.

But I will give credit where credit is due, and when Ahmadi's "Promised Messiah" borrows from Christianity, he is very, very good:

"...it is characteristic of the human self that it incites man to evil and is opposed to his attainment of perfection and to his moral state, and urges him towards undesirable and evil ways. Thus the propensity towards evil and intemperance is a human state which predominates over the mind of a person before he enters upon the moral state. This is man’s natural state..." (p. 26). [Similarity with Christianty’s “original sin”]

"...the reproving self. Though it reproves itself in respect of vices, yet it is not fully effective…in practising virtue and occasionally it is dominated by natural emotions, when it stumbles and falls. It is like a weak child who does not wish to stumble and fall but does so out of weakness..." (pp. 27-28). [Similarity with Christianity’s “conscience”]

"...the spiritual state of man...is the stage when the soul of a person being delivered from all weaknesses is filled with spiritual powers and establishes a relationship with God Almighty without Whose support it cannot exist..." (p. 28). [Similarity with Christianity’s “regeneration and sanctification”]

“…the highest spiritual condition of a person in this life is that he should find comfort in God and all his satisfaction, and ecstasy and delight should be centered in God….At that time nature and habits experience a complete transformation and the person is drawn far away from his previous condition. He is washed and cleansed and God inscribes love of virtue upon his heart and casts out from it the impurity of vice with His own hand. The forces of truth all enter the citadel of his heart and righteousness occupies all the battlements of his nature, and truth becomes victorious and falsehood lays down its arms and is put to flight. The hand of God is placed over his heart and he takes every step under the shade of God….These are they in whose hearts Allah has inscribed faith with His own hand and whom He has helped with the Holy Spirit….All this has come about through the grace and favour of Allah….God’s inscribing faith on their hearts with His own hand and helping them with the Holy Spirit means that no one can achieve true purity and righteousness unless he receives heavenly help” (pp. 102-104). [Similarity with Christianity’s “regeneration and sanctification”]
“…faith cannot survive without righteous action. If there is faith but no righteous action the faith is vain; and if there are actions but not faith, the actions are mere show or display” (p. 117). [Similarity with the Epistle of James]

“…a godly person does not belong to the world, that is why the world hates him” (p. 131). [Similar ideas in Christianity]

“…for the wicked the life of hell begins in a covert way in this very world, and if they would reflect they would observe hell in this very life” (p. 134). [Similarity with Christianity]

“…the soul, divorced from the body, is utterly useless. It is entirely vain to imagine that our soul, without its body, can enjoy any kind of bliss” (p. 136). [Similarity with Christianity]

“His power is such that when He determines upon a thing He says concerning it: Be; and it is….nothing is beyond His power” (p. 140). [Similarity with Christianity]

“God Almighty does not afflict any creature of His with a misfortune from Himself. He merely confronts a person with his own evil deeds” (p. 143). [Similarity with Christianity]

“…hell and heaven are both reflections of a man’s life, and are not something new that comes from outside….We do not conceive of heaven as containing material trees, nor of hell as full of brimstone and sulphur” (p. 147). [Similarity with Christianity]

“…the true purpose of man’s life is the worship of God, His understanding and complete devotion to Him” (p. 150). [Similarity with Christianity]

“…despite occupying himself with diverse projects in this life, man does not find his true welfare except in God….the true purpose of his life is that the window of his heart should open towards God” (p. 151). [Similarity with Christianity]

“…how can this purpose be achieved and through what means can a person find God? The very first means of achieving this goal is to recognize God Almighty correctly and to believe in the True God. For if the very first step is not right…there can be no hope of his treading along the straight path in his further progress towards God. The True God helps His seekers…” (p. 152). [Similarity with Christianity]

“…a denial of God is very hell itself and that all comfort and delight proceed from Him and from His recognition. He who is deprived of the recognition of God abides in hell in this very life” (p. 175). [Similarity with Christianity]


I will post more shortly.

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02-21-2010, 09:15 AM
Post: #4
RE: Ahmadi's Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam
Stereo he won't have any skin left......................be christian
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02-21-2010, 03:12 PM
Post: #5
RE: Ahmadi's Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam
It does seem to be a common thread in Islamic teachings to make grandiose statements about their writings being without peer and never backing such statements up with rationally produced evidence, only the circular arguments most every fundamentalist use to "answer" critics, i.e., "It's true because the Bible (insert Muhammad's Quran or Mao' Little Red Book) says is true."
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02-21-2010, 04:50 PM
Post: #6
RE: Ahmadi's Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam
(02-21-2010 03:12 PM)biomystic Wrote:  It does seem to be a common thread in Islamic teachings to make grandiose statements about their writings being without peer and never backing such statements up with rationally produced evidence...

Are you saying that people who refrain altogether from eating meat do not gradually suffer a decline of the faculty of bravery, as explained by Ahmadi's "Promised Messiah" in his paper that is "free from human weakness, empty boasts and vain assertions"?

Are you saying that insects are not generated in the brain?

Are you saying that pearls are not procured through the death of worms?

And are you saying that Arabic is not the only language which is the language of the Most Holy God, the universal language from which all other languages are derived?

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02-21-2010, 07:01 PM (This post was last modified: 02-21-2010 07:06 PM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #7
RE: Ahmadi's Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam
(02-21-2010 04:50 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  Are you saying that people who refrain altogether from eating meat do not gradually suffer a decline of the faculty of bravery, as explained by Ahmadi's "Promised Messiah" in his paper that is "free from human weakness, empty boasts and vain assertions"?

Are you saying that you find no difference in the nature of herbivores and carnivores? Do lambs and lions appear similar to you in nature? The important issue is to answer the 5 questions from the Bible and then we can compare the two perspectives. Otherwise it is like democrats have given a national health plan and all the republicans are doing is poking hole in this. Please provide a complete and coherent theory from the Bible. If nothing else there would be some areas of overlap, that will reduce area that you can continue to criticize.

You wrote:

"And are you saying that Arabic is not the only language which is the language of the Most Holy God, the universal language from which all other languages are derived?"

Languages are a very detailed science. The root structure of Arabic and Hebrew has special merit that put them in a special category. This is not a frivolous claim but there is a lot of information backing this claim. Recently some one posted a link to a book that had such claims about Hebrew. Those claims can be better made regarding Arabic. Here is a link to a Google-knol that has several articles on this subject:

http://knol.google.com/k/zia-shah/arabic...mbuyp/122#

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02-21-2010, 10:35 PM
Post: #8
RE: Ahmadi's Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam
(02-21-2010 07:01 PM)Ahmadi Wrote:  
(02-21-2010 04:50 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  Are you saying that people who refrain altogether from eating meat do not gradually suffer a decline of the faculty of bravery, as explained by Ahmadi's "Promised Messiah" in his paper that is "free from human weakness, empty boasts and vain assertions"?

Are you saying that you find no difference in the nature of herbivores and carnivores? Do lambs and lions appear similar to you in nature? The important issue is to answer the 5 questions from the Bible and then we can compare the two perspectives. Otherwise it is like democrats have given a national health plan and all the republicans are doing is poking hole in this. Please provide a complete and coherent theory from the Bible. If nothing else there would be some areas of overlap, that will reduce area that you can continue to criticize.

You wrote:

"And are you saying that Arabic is not the only language which is the language of the Most Holy God, the universal language from which all other languages are derived?"

Languages are a very detailed science. The root structure of Arabic and Hebrew has special merit that put them in a special category. This is not a frivolous claim but there is a lot of information backing this claim. Recently some one posted a link to a book that had such claims about Hebrew. Those claims can be better made regarding Arabic. Here is a link to a Google-knol that has several articles on this subject:

http://knol.google.com/k/zia-shah/arabic...mbuyp/122#

Why are there so many Sanskrit-like words in Arabic? Why is Hebrew classified as a Canaanite dialect? Why did our alphabets derive from the pagan Canaanites and important mathematic knowledge like the zero from the Hindus and our ideas of democracy and science from the ancient pagan Greeks if God is always on the side of the Arabic speaking ancients?
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02-22-2010, 03:05 AM (This post was last modified: 02-22-2010 03:07 AM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #9
RE: Ahmadi's Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam
Languages is a very voluminous subject, we will have to deal with it piece meal and may be also have the author about Hebrew language in this forum opine on this issue, possibly read and buy her book. I have offered some starting materials in the form of the link I offered before. We may need to deal with it in a new thread.

But going back to the main issue of 'the Philosophy of teachings of Islam,' let me offer you some understanding about 'sin.' In essence the Islamic concept is similar to Judaism, Hinduism and even Buddhism. Here I offer you a chapter of a book, 'What is Sin? Search of a Definition among Religions.' This chapter examines the concept of sin, starting with different religions:

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/App...f#page=103

If you read the chapter, you will find how couner intuitve the idea of 'original sin' is.

I had also started a different thread before that covers a lot of material on the issue at hand also, 'What is true salvation? Islam versus Christianity.'

Unfortunately, Stereophonic is not being fair or reasonable and rather than offering Christianity's answer to the 5 questions handled in the book 'the Philosophy of teachings of Islam,' he is just trying to criticize some peripheral details in the book.

The fact of the matter is that he realizes that if he were to try to answer the 5 questions from the perspective of Christianity, he will have to talk about 'Original sin,' and then he will have no legs to stand on:

http://knol.google.com/k/zia-shah/evalua...umbuyp/15#

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02-22-2010, 07:55 AM (This post was last modified: 02-22-2010 07:57 AM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #10
RE: Ahmadi's Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam
If you read the original book 'the philosophy of the teachings of Islam,' it includes among other details a detailed exposition of family values and chastity in Islam based on the verses of the Holy Quran. You could just read that portion by searching the word, 'chastity,' in the PDF file. There is no mention of celibacy in the Quran. Here is the link again:

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Phi...-Islam.pdf

By not following these guiding principles and teachings millions have condemned themselves to the agonies of HIV infection.

“Do they seek a religion other than Allah’s, while to Him submits whosoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him shall they be returned?” (Al Quran 3:84)
Seven thousand people sink every day in the dark sea of HIV infection. What can each individual do to save himself or herself from this unfortunate fate!
Promiscuity and sexuality has almost taken the form of an addiction. In this article it is reviewed, as to how and why millions have condemned themselves to the misery of HIV infection. How a lack of religiosity or wrong choice in religion, is making people vulnerable to HIV at least in the continent of Africa, is examined a Muslim Sunrise article:

http://knol.google.com/k/zia-shah/saving...umbuyp/93#

So, one would hope that rather criticizing petty details, my Christian critics and friends will demonstrate the superiority of Biblical verses as regards the teachings of family value and chastity.

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