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Ahmetsecer and Harun Yahya
11-29-2008, 07:25 PM
Post: #1
Ahmetsecer and Harun Yahya
I've been googling the name ahmetsecer and finding out that there are many other forums that contain exactly the same garbage posts that appear on this site, purporting to disprove evolution and all bearing the ahmetsecer name, but ultimately emanating from the writings of a seriously uneducated Turkish Creationist called Harun Yahya. Usually they receive zero responses, maybe because the forumites are wise to them and realise they are propaganda, disseminated from a central source and not the opinion of any individual forum member with which one might hope to engage in a debate.

I thought I would mention this in case anyone comes across the ahmetsecer posts and is incensed by the idiotic content and feels compelled to reply. You will be talking to yourself .
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12-02-2008, 04:58 PM
Post: #2
RE: Ahmetsecer and Harun Yahya
clarence clutterbuck Wrote:I've been googling the name ahmetsecer and finding out that there are many other forums that contain exactly the same garbage posts that appear on this site, purporting to disprove evolution and all bearing the ahmetsecer name, but ultimately emanating from the writings of a seriously uneducated Turkish Creationist called Harun Yahya. Usually they receive zero responses, maybe because the forumites are wise to them and realise they are propaganda, disseminated from a central source and not the opinion of any individual forum member with which one might hope to engage in a debate.

I thought I would mention this in case anyone comes across the ahmetsecer posts and is incensed by the idiotic content and feels compelled to reply. You will be talking to yourself .

I can post my subject where I want, why it is disturbing you? You are disturbing, bsc you know evolution theory is collapsed! If you visit
http://www.commentsonatlasofcreation.com/ you can easily see this fact. Nobody write answers bcs they can easily see that evolution is a false theory!
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12-02-2008, 08:57 PM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2008 10:02 PM by clarence clutterbuck.)
Post: #3
RE: Ahmetsecer and Harun Yahya
All the posts displayed on this site that bear the name ahmetsecer are really the work of Harun Yahya alias Adnan Oktar, a man who has absolutely nothing accurate or interesting to say about evolution. The sheer number of threads from this selfsame source is excessive, given that they are filled with mistakes, misconceptions and barefaced lies about the subject. Their content might impress someone who has grown up in an intellectually disadvantaged environment in a third world country or totalitarian theocracy, but for anyone who has had the benefit of a half decent education, these threads are nothing more than internet spam.

The site that you provide a link to that gives reactions to this man's "work" originates from Yahya himself so contains only information from sources that he approves of. Anyone who is interested in truth, objectivity, rationality, reason and good science would do far better to consult genuine sources. Might I suggest they start by reading these comments from Richard Dawkins.net. The subject is Harun Yahya's book, "The Atlas of Creation."

Quote:Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya
by Richard Dawkins
In 2006, I was one of tens of thousands of academic scientists all around the world who received, unsolicited and completely free, a huge and lavishly illustrated book called Atlas of Creation by the Turkish Muslim apologist Harun Yahya. The thesis of the book, which was published in eleven languages, is that evolution is false. The main 'evidence' consists of page after page of beautiful photographs of fossil animals, each one accompanied by a modern counterpart that is said to have changed not at all since the time of the fossil. It is a large-format book, a thick coffee-table book with more than 700 high-gloss colour pages. The cost of production of such a book must have been extremely high, and one is bound to wonder where the money came from to produce it and then distribute it gratis in so many copies and so many languages.

Given that the entire message of the book depends upon the alleged resemblance between modern animals and their fossil counterparts, I was amused, when I began flicking through at random, to find page 468 devoted to "eels", one fossil and one modern. The caption says,
There are more than 400 species of eels in the order Anguilliformes. That they have not undergone any change in millions of years once again reveals the invalidity of the theory of evolution.

The fossil eel shown may well be an eel, I cannot tell. But the modern "eel" that Yahya pictures is undoubtedly not an eel but a sea snake, probably of the highly venomous genus Laticauda (an eel is, of course, not a snake at all but a teleost fish). I have not scanned the book for other inaccuracies of this kind. But given that this was almost the first page I looked at . . . what price the main thesis of the book that modern animals are unchanged since the time of their fossil counterparts?

Incidentally, in May 2008 Harun Yahya, whose real name is Adnan Oktar, was sentenced in a Turkish court to a three-year prison sentence "for creating an illegal organization for personal gain."


Postscript added 8th July

I have now looked at some more pages of this preposterous book. The double page spreads on page 54-55, 368-369, and 414-415 are all labelled 'Crinoid', and all purport to show how similar ancient fossil crinoids are to modern ones. Crinoids are stalked relatives of starfish, members of the phylum Echinodermata. The three spreads have almost identical captions. Here's the one on page 54:
The 345-million-year-old crinoid fossil, identical to its living counterparts, invalidates the theory of evolution. Crinoids that have remained unchanged for 345 million years refute the theory of evolution, manifesting the creation of God as a fact.

And all three spreads show a beautiful colour photograph of modern crinoids to illustrate the point. Except that, in all three cases, the modern animal pictured is not a crinoid. It isn't even an echinoderm. It isn't even a deuterostome (the sub-kingdom to which the echinoderms, and we, belong). Zoologist readers will recognize it as a tube-dwelling annelid worm, a sabellid.

On page 402, there are four fossil pictures, correctly labelled Britttlestar. The brittlestars are one of the major classes of echinoderms, others being starfish, sea urchins and crinoids. Once again, we have the standard-issue creationist caption:
This 180-million—year-old fossil reveals that brittlestars have been the same for 200 million years. These animals, no different to those living today, once again reveal the invalidity of evolution.
Here we have not one but two photographs of living animals to illustrate the lack of change since the fossils. One of these modern animals is indeed a brittlestar. The other is a starfish! Member of a completely different class of echinoderms and obviously very different to even the meanest glance.

Finally, PZ has already called attention to this on Pharyngula, but I include a picture for completeness. On page 244, Yahya wishes to say that caddis flies have not changed since some 25-million-year-old insects preserved in amber. Once again, the caption:
These living things have survived for millions of years without the slightest change in their structures. The fact that these insects never changed is a sign that they never evolved.

By now, we have come to expect something pretty good when we look at the photograph of the modern animal. What will the modern 'caddis fly' be? A minnow, perhaps? A garden slug? A king prawn? No, in a way is better than any of these: A fishing lure, complete with prominent steel hook!

I am at a loss to reconcile the expensive and glossy production values of this book with the "breathtaking inanity" of the content . Is it really inanity, or is it just plain laziness — or perhaps cynical awareness of the ignorance and stupidity of the target audience — mostly Muslim creationists. And where does the money come from?


Since Richard Dawkins review of Adnan Oktars lavish but incompetently conceived book, the Author has succeeded in having Dawkins' website banned in Turkey. It is astounding that such an imbecilic man has this kind of power in the courts, and I think it discredits the whole country with regard to its attitude to science education, human rights and freedom of expression.
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