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An exclusive god?
09-02-2009, 06:28 PM
Post: #1
An exclusive god?
So lets talk about the nature of god for a moment. I have observed with more than a little amusement the arguments going on between Muslims and Christians in this forum. I have observed with considerably less amusement the arguments between Muslims and Christians in the real world. Both believe their god is exclusive.

Let me define what I mean by "exclusive". For the purposes of this discussion, I define "exclusive" as a god who can only have the traits of one religion, and cannot have the traits of other religions. The Christian god is exclusive, because although some VERY generous Christians (who ignore large portions of the bible) might say that those who worship other gods sincerely will still go to heaven, they still believe those who worship other gods have it wrong. likewise Islam is exclusive.

An "inclusive" god, on the other hand, would be a being that has manifested itself as many deities throughout history, or an infinite force with no distinctions that simply wants you to believe in something, no matter what it is.

So, term definitions are out of the way. On to my big question and hopefully conversation starter.

Why would anyone believe in an exclusive god? Even assuming that there is evidence of some sort of deity (which there is not,) that evidence tells us nothing of that deity's nature. Why must it be the Christian god? Why couldn't it be Allah. Or Zarathustra? Or Zeus? Or Wotan? Or Quetzalcoatl? To the religious, why is your religion right?

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09-03-2009, 03:45 PM
Post: #2
RE: An exclusive god?
regardless of the other gods, Zolt sends the laws to the various nations.

procedure shall prevail !
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09-03-2009, 10:57 PM
Post: #3
RE: An exclusive god?
(09-03-2009 03:45 PM)Guide of Zolt Wrote:  regardless of the other gods, Zolt sends the laws to the various nations.

How? Z-mail?
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09-11-2009, 11:15 PM
Post: #4
RE: An exclusive god?
Historically Allah and "the Christian God" (as you call them) are the same God.
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09-11-2009, 11:47 PM
Post: #5
RE: An exclusive god?
I agree. Most Muslims and Christians tend to disagree, though. Some agree, but ad the caveat that the other religion is doing it wrong. Generally I distinguish, because as far as I'm concerned both gods are fictions, so I may as well distinguish the fiction in which Jesus is also god from the fiction in which Muhammed was a prophet.

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09-12-2009, 07:08 AM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2009 07:10 AM by Parousia.)
Post: #6
RE: An exclusive god?
(09-11-2009 11:15 PM)mugendai Wrote:  Historically Allah and "the Christian God" (as you call them) are the same God.

That is the standard position of the Catholic Church, that Judaism, Christianity and Islam all worship the God of Abraham. The term 'paganism' is reserved for all other religions.
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11-12-2009, 04:38 AM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2009 04:52 AM by muslim girl.)
Post: #7
RE: An exclusive god?
Muslim believe that there is god Christians do too
Muslims believe that there was prophet to Jewish who tell them that there is a god and tell them about Allah and they believe them after that the prophet of Christians come and do the same thing and who follow them believe that there is one god
Then the prophet of Muslims and the same thing was done
The problem is
Jewish do not believe about the prophets after the Jewish prophet
Christians do not believe about prophets after the Christian prophet
I am Muslim I think my religion has no mistakes
However there was no prophet after Muhammad with miracles
The bible is some of the word of god which is given to us
And so the holy book of Jewish
But we believe that the two holy books human change them and lie about god
And we believe that people who change the holy books will go to fire
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11-12-2009, 08:09 PM
Post: #8
RE: An exclusive god?
Define Religion!
And I don't think God can be Exclusive!

I would have to argue that Brahman is the same as Allah and Yahweh,
My beliefs go on the idea that any person who is Spiritual can experience some level of mysticism and that each person may have a different means by which to experience it. Also you have to keep in mind that I stress the existence of Angels & Demons! I view good Hindu Gods as Angels and not Gods whereas I view bad Hindu Gods as Demons!

I think that Moses got High off Volcano Gas, but even so while talking to the burning bush he came up with the idea to free the Hebrews and he also came up with the Ten Commandments. So from my mind it was by inhaling volcano gas that Moses was able to talk to Yahweh!(Michael)

I think that most of the Prophets had to bring themselves on the brink of death before experiencing the Divine. Western Monotheism did emerge from a dry desert where death is common place.

From my own experience it is only when my body acts up and I am about to die that I have dreams in which I talk to angels. What might seem like 5 minutes to every one else some times feels like years while I am "dreaming!" So when this happens to my body it just happens and I usually have at least 6 to 7 separate dreams while my body is dieing. But so far every time I am fine and in fact some times I feel allot better after my near death experience than I did before. I have just learned to deal with the fact that this happens and that some day I might not wake up again!

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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11-12-2009, 08:40 PM
Post: #9
RE: An exclusive god?
(11-12-2009 08:09 PM)Azrael17 Wrote:  I would have to argue that Brahman is the same as Allah and Yahweh,

I disagree. Those followers of the Abrahamic religions believe their God has an cognate influence on the world; ie Allah and Yahweh created the world and judge people at the End of Days.

In Hindu theology, it was Brahma who created, Vishnu who sustains, and Siva that destroys and judges.

Brahma, Vishnu and Siva can be compared to Allah and Yahweh in terms of His interaction with the world. Brahman is closer to the understanding of an idea such as the Tao.

You can argue it all you like Az, but they are different ideas. I would say there are Christian mystics and Sufis who would disagree too. It's impossible to put into words, the the latter idea is more that 'god' or whatever "just is" as opposed to being a divine entity. That make sense?
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11-13-2009, 12:06 AM
Post: #10
RE: An exclusive god?
(11-12-2009 08:40 PM)Zagreus Wrote:  
(11-12-2009 08:09 PM)Azrael17 Wrote:  I would have to argue that Brahman is the same as Allah and Yahweh,

I disagree. Those followers of the Abrahamic religions believe their God has an cognate influence on the world; ie Allah and Yahweh created the world and judge people at the End of Days.

In Hindu theology, it was Brahma who created, Vishnu who sustains, and Siva that destroys and judges.

Brahma, Vishnu and Siva can be compared to Allah and Yahweh in terms of His interaction with the world. Brahman is closer to the understanding of an idea such as the Tao.

You can argue it all you like Az, but they are different ideas. I would say there are Christian mystics and Sufis who would disagree too. It's impossible to put into words, the the latter idea is more that 'god' or whatever "just is" as opposed to being a divine entity. That make sense?

Oh, so couldn't that be considered a type of Trinity?
or do they view them as separate beings?

If so than a Hindu wouldn't believe in an all powerful God than? Correct!

It is just hard for me to understand Polytheism as I see those gods as either angels or demons.
In my mind then Brahman would be the "Angel of Life," Vishnu would be Sophia, and Siva would be Azrael-The Seraph!
And if there are evil gods in Hinduism than I see those as Demons.

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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