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And where do the Angels come from?
01-20-2010, 02:31 PM (This post was last modified: 01-20-2010 05:16 PM by Holy Babylon.)
Post: #1
And where do the Angels come from?
The Bible goes into detail on how God made the Universe in the beginning, but there's one thing missing: The Angels. According to my religion, Angels can't be created. When did God make them? Were they always there like God? Hmmm...Is there any scripture out there?

Basically what I am asking, when were the Angels made and why is it not mentioned in the Bible? Are they eternal?
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01-20-2010, 02:34 PM
Post: #2
RE: My Dad brought this up a few months ago...
whats your religion .
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01-20-2010, 02:36 PM
Post: #3
RE: My Dad brought this up a few months ago...
Christianity, Catholicism specifically. The Vatican banned the use of Angels not used in the Bible and I've been taught, which I think it's from a non-biblical theological standpoint, that Angels aren't created like. Ie: When someone dies, they do not turn into an angel.
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01-20-2010, 02:52 PM
Post: #4
RE: My Dad brought this up a few months ago...
(01-20-2010 02:36 PM)Holy Babylon Wrote:  Christianity, Catholicism specifically. The Vatican banned the use of Angels not used in the Bible and I've been taught, which I think it's from a non-biblical theological standpoint, that Angels aren't created like. Ie: When someone dies, they do not turn into an angel.
If you allow me to quote from Islamic view, Allah created the angels from light, created the jinn from the pure flame of fire, and Adam from that which was described to you (i.e., the clay.)>> This is a sahihhadith and proof Iblis was not an angel who blasphemed, thus becoming the devil--as some people claim. Iblis is a jinn and is the father of all the jinn-kind, as Adam is a human and is the father of all the human kind.

Allah created the angels as they are now. They do not grow or develop or age. In their original shape, they are gentle bodies; gentle bodies meaning they can’t be grasped or held by the hand. Although they are gentle bodies, they do not have internal cavities--unlike humans and jinn--and they do not eat or drink. This is why when Prophet Ibrahim gave food to the angels who were visiting him (in the shape of men), they did not eat. The angels have different body parts: feet, shoulders, ears, hands, and wings. Some angels have two (2) wings, some have three (3), others have four (4). Some, like Angel Jibril, have up to six hundred (600) wings. If just one of his wings was spread open, it would cover what is between east and west.
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01-20-2010, 03:02 PM
Post: #5
RE: And where do the Angels come from?
did you just answer your own question ? , but yes i dont think we turn into angels .
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01-20-2010, 03:05 PM
Post: #6
RE: My Dad brought this up a few months ago...
(01-20-2010 02:36 PM)Holy Babylon Wrote:  Christianity, Catholicism specifically. The Vatican banned the use of Angels not used in the Bible and I've been taught, which I think it's from a non-biblical theological standpoint, that Angels aren't created like. Ie: When someone dies, they do not turn into an angel.

In Catholic theology, angels are a class of spiritual beings created by God. When you die, you do not turn into an angel.

I do not understand the part about "The Vatican banned the use of Angels not used in the Bible". Please explain.
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01-20-2010, 05:15 PM
Post: #7
RE: And where do the Angels come from?
Basically, in Judaism, I don't know if it is like this today, there were basically a massive list of angels that were venerated. Catholics picked up on the process, venerating them like any other saint until the Pope stepped in, issuing that the only recognized angels were Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael, as they are the only ones mentioned in the Bible, seeing that the Book of Enoch is seen as apocryphal. Other names are not to taught or venerated if they are not mentioned in the Bible. We recognize the classes of angels (First, Second, Third Spheres), but I am not sure about Metatron, the record keeper. We believe there are seven archangels, but we only recognize three, and those are the only three to be venerated. Concerns with private revelations are usually kept to oneself, but it's up to the person who has the revelation in the first place.
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01-20-2010, 10:02 PM
Post: #8
RE: And where do the Angels come from?
(01-20-2010 05:15 PM)Holy Babylon Wrote:  Basically, in Judaism, I don't know if it is like this today, there were basically a massive list of angels that were venerated. Catholics picked up on the process, venerating them like any other saint until the Pope stepped in, issuing that the only recognized angels were Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael, as they are the only ones mentioned in the Bible, seeing that the Book of Enoch is seen as apocryphal. Other names are not to taught or venerated if they are not mentioned in the Bible. We recognize the classes of angels (First, Second, Third Spheres), but I am not sure about Metatron, the record keeper. We believe there are seven archangels, but we only recognize three, and those are the only three to be venerated. Concerns with private revelations are usually kept to oneself, but it's up to the person who has the revelation in the first place.

I am aware the the seven archangels named in Enoch were also mentioned in the writings of various Church Fathers including Pope Gregory I. I am also aware that current Church teaching is that the names of only three Archangels are known. What happened in between is not clear. The Catholic Encyclopedia article on angels mentions the Fourth Lateran Council and the Vatican Council as both asserting that angels are created beings. But I cannot find anywhere an official Vatican declaration about not venerating Enoch's angels. Sad
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01-21-2010, 10:05 PM
Post: #9
RE: And where do the Angels come from?
Council of Rome in 747 by Pope St. Zachary, sorry that this is my best source, I couldn't find anything either.

Post #11: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=343979
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01-22-2010, 05:20 AM
Post: #10
RE: And where do the Angels come from?
(01-21-2010 10:05 PM)Holy Babylon Wrote:  Council of Rome in 747 by Pope St. Zachary, sorry that this is my best source, I couldn't find anything either.

Post #11: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=343979

Thanks much. That and a bit of googling led to this. The whole page is about angels.

Quote:Council of Rome, 745 A.D.

Again a tendency towards angel worship was growing within the Church. Pope St. Zachary responded by convening a synod to clarify the Church's teaching on the subject of angels. It condemned obsession with angelic intervention and angelolatry, the worship or adoration of angels, but reaffirmed its approval of reverence toward angels. It struck many angels' names from the list of those eligible for veneration, but due to references to him in the Bible, St. Michael's name survived this process.

http://www.saintmichaelparishbedford.org/angel.htm
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