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Archbishop Burke repeats: No Communion, no Catholic funeral
09-29-2009, 09:32 PM (This post was last modified: 09-29-2009 09:33 PM by catholicstation.)
Post: #1
Archbishop Burke repeats: No Communion, no Catholic funeral
Archbishop Burke repeats: no Communion, no Catholic funeral for pro-abortion politicians

Archbishop Raymond Burke, speaking at the Inside Catholic partnership dinner, said that Catholic politicians who support legal abortion should not be allowed to receive Communion or to have Catholic funerals. The American archbishop, who now heads the Apostolic Signatura, explained that this disciplinary approach is not a matter of judging the individual's soul, but "a recognition of the scandal" caused by public support for abortion
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/head...oryid=4111
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09-29-2009, 09:38 PM
Post: #2
RE: Archbishop Burke repeats: No Communion, no Catholic funeral
(09-29-2009 09:32 PM)catholicstation Wrote:  Archbishop Burke repeats: no Communion, no Catholic funeral for pro-abortion politicians

Which side would really have benefited the most from Ted Kennedy being denied a Catholic funeral?

http://www.ontheissues.org/social/ted_ke...ortion.htm
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09-29-2009, 09:53 PM
Post: #3
RE: Archbishop Burke repeats: No Communion, no Catholic funeral
(09-29-2009 09:38 PM)Parousia Wrote:  
(09-29-2009 09:32 PM)catholicstation Wrote:  Archbishop Burke repeats: no Communion, no Catholic funeral for pro-abortion politicians

Which side would really have benefited the most from Ted Kennedy being denied a Catholic funeral?

http://www.ontheissues.org/social/ted_ke...ortion.htm

The only benefit is HIS!

Sadly, some individuals misconstrue fundamental option in such a way there are no particular mortal sins. Instead, the one "mortal sin" which would take a soul to hell is for a person to willingly, knowingly reject God and His love entirely. Such a stance would reduce fundamental option to some psychological game, whereby a person says, "I love God. I do not reject God. My individual choices or particular actions do not affect my total being. Therefore, although I committed adultery, or murdered someone, or fornicated, or robbed the bank, (or committed any other mortal sin), God still loves me, I love God, and I think I am going to heaven." Think again.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/MORTSIN.htm
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09-29-2009, 09:57 PM
Post: #4
RE: Archbishop Burke repeats: No Communion, no Catholic funeral
God confirms that infants under a month old are worthless: Leviticus 27:6

God personally performs, or demands, abortions: Numbers 31:15-17, Hosea 9:16, Hosea 13:16, 2 Samuel 12:14

And keep in mind that while I consider the issue to be EXTREMELY complicated, as a general rule this atheist is pro-life.

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09-29-2009, 10:04 PM
Post: #5
RE: Archbishop Burke repeats: No Communion, no Catholic funeral
(09-29-2009 09:57 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  God confirms that infants under a month old are worthless: Leviticus 27:6

God personally performs, or demands, abortions: Numbers 31:15-17, Hosea 9:16, Hosea 13:16, 2 Samuel 12:14

And keep in mind that while I consider the issue to be EXTREMELY complicated, as a general rule this atheist is pro-life.

I applaude your pro-life statement - You are not G-D

The Bible mentions at least one form of contraception specifically and condemns it. Coitus interruptus, was used by Onan to avoid fulfilling his duty according to the ancient Jewish law of fathering children for one’s dead brother. "Judah said to Onan, ‘Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also" (Gen. 38:8–10).

http://www.catholic.com/library/Birth_Control.asp
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09-29-2009, 10:21 PM
Post: #6
RE: Archbishop Burke repeats: No Communion, no Catholic funeral
How do you know that was because he spilled his semen? Maybe he was just really bad in bed. Maybe he thought "Onan" was a stupid name. Maybe god didn't like Onan sleeping with his brother's wife (it never mentions that Onan married her. In fact, it specifically calls him a 'brother-in-law', not a second husband. Adultery is a big no-no for god.) Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think that Judah (who was constantly making bad decisions) made ANOTHER bad decision and got Onan to sleep with his brother's wife before marriage. That's more than enough reason for god to kill him, right there.

I gave you five verses that are pro-abortion. You give me one against contraception that isn't even clearly against contraception (and lets face it, in the Torah god kills people for the weirdest reasons. And if you're going to base your religion around that, how come Catholics don't follow the kosher laws?)

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09-29-2009, 10:28 PM
Post: #7
RE: Archbishop Burke repeats: No Communion, no Catholic funeral
(09-29-2009 10:04 PM)catholicstation Wrote:  
(09-29-2009 09:57 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  God confirms that infants under a month old are worthless: Leviticus 27:6

God personally performs, or demands, abortions: Numbers 31:15-17, Hosea 9:16, Hosea 13:16, 2 Samuel 12:14

And keep in mind that while I consider the issue to be EXTREMELY complicated, as a general rule this atheist is pro-life.

I applaude your pro-life statement - You are not G-D

The Bible mentions at least one form of contraception specifically and condemns it. Coitus interruptus, was used by Onan to avoid fulfilling his duty according to the ancient Jewish law of fathering children for one’s dead brother. "Judah said to Onan, ‘Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also" (Gen. 38:8–10).

http://www.catholic.com/library/Birth_Control.asp

By the cultural rules of that time, Onan was obligated to father children for his dead brother. It was his disobedience, his flouting of the law that caused God to be displeased, not the way he did it. Otherwise why the elaborate buildup about his dead brother's wife? Well, at least Mother Church has stopped trying to sell this story as being about masturbation, as they did when I was young.
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09-29-2009, 10:30 PM
Post: #8
RE: Archbishop Burke repeats: No Communion, no Catholic funeral
(09-29-2009 10:04 PM)catholicstation Wrote:  
(09-29-2009 09:57 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  God confirms that infants under a month old are worthless: Leviticus 27:6

God personally performs, or demands, abortions: Numbers 31:15-17, Hosea 9:16, Hosea 13:16, 2 Samuel 12:14

And keep in mind that while I consider the issue to be EXTREMELY complicated, as a general rule this atheist is pro-life.

I applaude your pro-life statement - You are not G-D

The Bible mentions at least one form of contraception specifically and condemns it. Coitus interruptus, was used by Onan to avoid fulfilling his duty according to the ancient Jewish law of fathering children for one’s dead brother. "Judah said to Onan, ‘Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also" (Gen. 38:8–10).

http://www.catholic.com/library/Birth_Control.asp

Numbers 31:15-17

4 And Moses being angry with the chief officers of the army, the tribunes, and the centurions that were come from the battle, 15 Said: Why have you saved the women?

16 Are not these they, that deceived the children of Israel by the counsel of Balaam, and made you transgress against the Lord by the sin of Phogor,

(16 "The sin of Phogor" - The sin committed in the worship of Beelphegor.)

Shall I continue? GTseng3 -
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09-29-2009, 11:22 PM
Post: #9
RE: Archbishop Burke repeats: No Communion, no Catholic funeral
That's not the whole quote. Try verse 17: Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

There we go, god commands that you abort every baby among that tribe. It wasn't the baby's fault. They're just worthless in the sight of the lord, that's all.

See, the fun thing here is that the Christian pro-life stance is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the Biblical text. God never condemns abortion. Indeed, infants are clearly only valuable after they are a month old.

On the other hand, there are many valid, rational, scientific and ethical reasons to be pro-life. It's not a black and white issue (indeed, it's incredibly thorny, and both sides have very good arguments,) but there's very little fundamental biological difference between a late-term fetus and a newborn. Thus if a newborns death would be unethical, why not a fetus's? Now it's clear that an early embryo is not a life. But, in my opinion at least, it's clear that it is a life before birth. Precisely when it becomes so is the real question, and quite frankly, I have no idea.

I just think that if we're going to err, we should err on the side of life.

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09-30-2009, 12:26 AM
Post: #10
RE: Archbishop Burke repeats: No Communion, no Catholic funeral
(09-29-2009 11:22 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  That's not the whole quote. Try verse 17: Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

There we go, god commands that you abort every baby among that tribe. It wasn't the baby's fault. They're just worthless in the sight of the lord, that's all.

See, the fun thing here is that the Christian pro-life stance is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the Biblical text. God never condemns abortion. Indeed, infants are clearly only valuable after they are a month old.

On the other hand, there are many valid, rational, scientific and ethical reasons to be pro-life. It's not a black and white issue (indeed, it's incredibly thorny, and both sides have very good arguments,) but there's very little fundamental biological difference between a late-term fetus and a newborn. Thus if a newborns death would be unethical, why not a fetus's? Now it's clear that an early embryo is not a life. But, in my opinion at least, it's clear that it is a life before birth. Precisely when it becomes so is the real question, and quite frankly, I have no idea.

I just think that if we're going to err, we should err on the side of life.

Jeremias 1
5 Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and made thee a prophet unto the nations.

Isaias 44
1 And now hear, O Jacob, my servant, and Israel whom I have chosen. 2 Thus saith the Lord that made and formed thee, thy helper from the womb: Fear not, O my servant Jacob, and thou most righteous whom I have chosen.
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