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Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
03-25-2010, 10:37 AM
Post: #1
Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I find this quote quite odd.

I do not know why all sins are performed but I do know that humans do not generally do what does not reward them somehow.

If sin were to somehow harm us or not reward us then it is not likely that we would do them.

I know that the sins that I have done were done for some kind of benefit, reward or pleasure for me.

I have sinned and am not quite dead yet so the above quote may mean spiritual or moral death.
Yet in many discussions, I find myself, to my way of thinking, often times in a more moral position than many believers. Strange.

2 Peter 3:9 KJ
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

This quote seems to say that we all sin and will all repent and all get to heaven thus eliminating that immoral construct called hell.

Please do not think that I wish to promote sinning. I do not. Except for small ones.
I do so, and think we have to, to make the above quote true and would suggest that, not if, but when you sin, make them small ones.

Regardless of this fact, I pose these questions to you.

Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
Should we and do we all sin?
Is sin a requirement to enter heaven as the quotes above suggests?
Is this why God creates man with a sin nature that cannot be fought?
Is hell an immoral construct and thus non existing.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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03-25-2010, 10:40 AM
Post: #2
RE: Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
Worship the BOOK and you will have eaten from the tree.

????????????????
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03-25-2010, 11:33 AM
Post: #3
RE: Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
(03-25-2010 10:37 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?...

Sinning can be compared to running a restaurant badly. A badly run restaurant will eventually die--it will go out of business. But can you run a restaurant badly and still make money for awhile? Yes, but eventually the restaurant will crumble under its own mismanagement.


(03-25-2010 10:37 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Should we and do we all sin?...

Should we try to run a restaurant imperfectly? No. Are all restaurants nevertheless run imperfectly? Yes.


(03-25-2010 10:37 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Is sin a requirement to enter heaven as the quotes above suggests?...

To ask the question is to answer it.


(03-25-2010 10:37 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Is this why God creates man with a sin nature that cannot be fought?...

God doesn't create anyone with a sin nature. We are all born into a web of preexisting huan sin, and if we live long enough we all add our share to the sum total of sin. But God offers to help us resist sin and overcome it. Eventually all sin will be eradicated, and the entire cosmos will be renewed.


(03-25-2010 10:37 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Is hell an immoral construct and thus non existing...

Hell is what you have left after you have rejected the Source and Ground of All Life and All Love. No one needs to worry about hell as long as they rely on God and remain open to God.

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03-25-2010, 01:39 PM
Post: #4
RE: Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
(03-25-2010 10:40 AM)kevlar Wrote:  Worship the BOOK and you will have eaten from the tree.

Yep. That would be idol worship and evil.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
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No choice.
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03-25-2010, 01:50 PM
Post: #5
RE: Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
Sin put man out of harmony with his Creator. It damaged not only his relations with God but also his relations with the rest of God’s creation, including damage to man’s own self, his mind, heart, and evil upon human race.
Romans 5:12: “through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they all sinned.” The apostle Paul speaks of death as spreading to all men, which implies a progressive rather than a simultaneous effect on Adam’s descendants.
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03-25-2010, 01:51 PM (This post was last modified: 03-25-2010 01:58 PM by Greatest I am.)
Post: #6
RE: Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
[/quote]
Quote:
Quote:
(03-25-2010 11:33 AM)Stereophonic Wrote:  
(03-25-2010 10:37 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?...

Sinning can be compared to running a restaurant badly. A badly run restaurant will eventually die--it will go out of business. But can you run a restaurant badly and still make money for awhile? Yes, but eventually the restaurant will crumble under its own mismanagement.

Not if it has a captive market.
Locatio, location, location.


Quote:
(03-25-2010 10:37 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Should we and do we all sin?...

Should we try to run a restaurant imperfectly? No. Are all restaurants nevertheless run imperfectly? Yes.


(03-25-2010 10:37 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Is sin a requirement to enter heaven as the quotes above suggests?...

To ask the question is to answer it.


(03-25-2010 10:37 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Is this why God creates man with a sin nature that cannot be fought?...

There goes original sin and baptism. A poor Christian concept anyway.


Quote:God doesn't create anyone with a sin nature. We are all born into a web of preexisting huan sin, and if we live long enough we all add our share to the sum total of sin. But God offers to help us resist sin and overcome it. Eventually all sin will be eradicated, and the entire cosmos will be renewed.

Oh my. God would eradicate something He created. What a waste of perfect works.

Other than hear say and Bible say, all hear say to me, how do you know what God will do?
Have you had an apotheosis?

(03-25-2010 10:37 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Is hell an immoral construct and thus non existing...

Hell is what you have left after you have rejected the Source and Ground of All Life and All Love. No one needs to worry about hell as long as they rely on God and remain open to God.

Which God, there are many. There are even many Christian Gods.
One wife or many? Pick your Christian sect.

Allah is not bad either. Many virgins for all men in heaven.

Regards
DL
Quote:
(03-25-2010 01:50 PM)jwitness Wrote:  Sin put man out of harmony with his Creator. It damaged not only his relations with God but also his relations with the rest of God’s creation, including damage to man’s own self, his mind, heart, and evil upon human race.

Why then did God create such a monster?

[quote]Romans 5:12: “through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they all sinned.” The apostle Paul speaks of death as spreading to all men, which implies a progressive rather than a simultaneous effect on Adam’s descendants.

I have a problem with this.
Scripture indicates that Satan was the first sinner.
God then brought him to Eden with Him to pester A & E.

The snake of Eden also lied according to some before Eve ate of the tree of knowledge so that should be two sins before man got into it.

Then again I do not believe in fantasy characters or water walking and do not read the Bible literally. That is definitely the wrong way to read it.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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03-25-2010, 02:45 PM (This post was last modified: 03-25-2010 03:10 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #7
RE: Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
(03-25-2010 01:51 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Not if it has a captive market...Locatio, location, location.

All metaphors break down if you push them too far. Think of another metaphor if you want--a car, for example, that isn't properly maintained will eventually break down. It will cease to perform its intended function. It will turn from being a car into being a piece of junk. But a good mechanic can restore the piece of junk and make it even better than it was before.


(03-25-2010 01:51 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...There goes original sin and baptism. A poor Christian concept anyway.

Some understandings of the doctrine of original sin (i.e., the Catholic understanding) are unhelpful, I agree. Baptism is a re-enactment of death and resurrection, as well as a public means of identifying oneself with Jesus in his death and resurrection. It is not dependent on the Catholic understanding of original sin (except in Catholicism).


(03-25-2010 01:51 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Oh my. God would eradicate something He created. What a waste of perfect works...

God doesn't create sin or evil. In giving us freedom, God creates an opportunity for sin and evil. Sin and evil are the shadowy underside of freedom and good. Without at least the possibility of evil, good would lose its meaning.


(03-25-2010 01:51 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Other than hear say and Bible say, all hear say to me, how do you know what God will do?...Have you had an apotheosis?

Humans seek meaning in life. If the Bible can provide that meaning better than anything else, why not use it? Beyond this, Christians experience a sense that God is with them and guiding them and teaching them about God's ways. If you don't share that experience, you are not in a position to judge it.


(03-25-2010 01:51 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Which God, there are many. There are even many Christian Gods...

There is one true God, but humans will always interpret that God according to their presuppositions, preunderstandings, and life experiences. God can reveal himself and bring people into greater knowledge and understanding, but this generally does not happen without some degree of effort and desire on our part.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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03-26-2010, 08:22 AM
Post: #8
RE: Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
(03-25-2010 02:45 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  quote]

There is one true God, but humans will always interpret that God according to their presuppositions, preunderstandings, and life experiences. God can reveal himself and bring people into greater knowledge and understanding, but this generally does not happen without some degree of effort and desire on our part.

So you believe in the miracle working absentee God just on hear say and with that are willing to believe in fantasy creatures, talking animals and water walking.
Ok.

Thanks for this.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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03-26-2010, 08:38 AM
Post: #9
RE: Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
(03-26-2010 08:22 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...So you believe in the miracle working absentee God just on hear say and with that are willing to believe in fantasy creatures, talking animals and water walking...

Why do you keep mischaracterizing people's beliefs? How does your dishonesty advance your position?

God can and does work miracles, but anyone who is determined enough can always come up with some other explanation (however far-fetched it may be).

God is not absentee at all. Many people, myself included, believe God speaks to them. If you do not share this experience, you are in no position to judge its validity.

What "fantasy creatures" are you talking about? Have you never heard of literary devices and symbols?

If by "talking animals" you refer to the serpent and the donkey, you apparently fail to understand the narratives.

As for walking on water, refer to the part about miracles, above.

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03-26-2010, 09:06 AM
Post: #10
RE: Are the wages of sin death or pleasure and reward?
(03-26-2010 08:38 AM)Stereophonic Wrote:  
(03-26-2010 08:22 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...So you believe in the miracle working absentee God just on hear say and with that are willing to believe in fantasy creatures, talking animals and water walking...

Why do you keep mischaracterizing people's beliefs? How does your dishonesty advance your position?

God can and does work miracles, but anyone who is determined enough can always come up with some other explanation (however far-fetched it may be).

God is not absentee at all. Many people, myself included, believe God speaks to them. If you do not share this experience, you are in no position to judge its validity.

What "fantasy creatures" are you talking about? Have you never heard of literary devices and symbols?

If by "talking animals" you refer to the serpent and the donkey, you apparently fail to understand the narratives.

As for walking on water, refer to the part about miracles, above.

Return to your fantasy world and I to my real one.
I have no time for children that will not grow up.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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