Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Believers, without apotheosis, you lie when saying that God exists.
11-26-2009, 11:20 AM
Post: #1
Believers, without apotheosis, you lie when saying that God exists.
Believers, without apotheosis, you lie when saying that God exists.

Most believers always parrot their dogma as if it is a known truth to them. This hear sy they believe to be true.

Many claim a personal relationship with their God yet do not claim any apotheosis or personal contact with their God.

This means of course that they believe their WORD/Holy book to be completely true in terms of leading them to their God, although most do not really follow it completely.

Some read literally and begin their belief in God from the standpoint that He does all kids of miracles and is a creator God even though, in Christianity and Islam, this means that their beliefs begin with a talking snake and a God who seems to want to deny man the knowledge that gives us our moral sense.
The knowledge of good and evil.
They see man as somehow complete without a moral sense and see a fall in Genesis when actually it was a fall up to being truly human.

Some believers think that God actually speaks to them, some daily, but when questioned admit to not really hearing God.
Not surprising because the moment someone claims an actual contact, the names and labels start to fly. Ancient prophets were venerated and wrote scripture. Modern prophets are scorned as not quite running on all cylinders. I know this first hand. Oh well.


That aside, I have this pet peeve that says that I never lie. I do not do this for any altruistic reason. I do it because I am somewhat of an absent minded professor and have this fear of being caught in a lie or in saying something that I cannot prove.

Believers tend not to follow this philosophy and to me are lying all the time with their claims of what God is and what he can do, etc.

When I hear such I see that believers have given God all possible attribute taken to their maximums. God is now omni this and omni that and basically omni everything. Creator of all things except of course evil.
This seems to be the only thing that man is said to be omni at.
Better than having absolutely nothing attributed to our creative talent I guess.
This does not agree with sculpture but then many Christians have their own favorite interpretation to the point where Christianity is rather fragmented with many different sects. Oslam is following suite with a variety of cults and beliefs.

The point is that all these believers are saying things that, if in any court of law, would be told to only tell what they know to be absolutely true.

Without an apotheosis believers cannot be 100% sure.

Perhaps this is why no believer has yet to show his faith the way Jesus said they could.

And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

The basic question that I would then like to ask is,

When you say that God exists, are you telling a truth that you would swear on a Bible to?

If so, then how can you be sure without an apotheosis?

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
11-26-2009, 07:31 PM
Post: #2
RE: Believers, without apotheosis, you lie when saying that God exists.
(11-26-2009 11:20 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  When you say that God exists, are you telling a truth that you would swear on a Bible to?

I love the irony! An atheist could easily swear on a Bible that God exists. So could an absolutely confirmed believer. Neither would be concerned with consequences. In fact, the less sure one is AND the more sure one is, the less one would worry about consequences.

BTW, is apotheosis - becoming a god - really the word you intended to use? Or did you mean direct communication with God? Heck, I've done that (with a variety of assists) and I am still an agnostic. Wink
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
11-26-2009, 09:38 PM
Post: #3
RE: Believers, without apotheosis, you lie when saying that God exists.
(11-26-2009 07:31 PM)Parousia Wrote:  
(11-26-2009 11:20 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  When you say that God exists, are you telling a truth that you would swear on a Bible to?

I love the irony! An atheist could easily swear on a Bible that God exists. So could an absolutely confirmed believer. Neither would be concerned with consequences. In fact, the less sure one is AND the more sure one is, the less one would worry about consequences.

BTW, is apotheosis - becoming a god - really the word you intended to use? Or did you mean direct communication with God? Heck, I've done that (with a variety of assists) and I am still an agnostic. Wink

In communication with God there is an automatic rapprochement in thinking.
We all evolve our thinking over time towards resemblance to God's. An apotheosis just gives one hell of a boost.

I do not know who you communicated with but I do not think it was God. If it was, you would have no doubt.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
11-27-2009, 06:13 AM
Post: #4
RE: Believers, without apotheosis, you lie when saying that God exists.
Rolleyes
(11-26-2009 09:38 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  I do not know who you communicated with but I do not think it was God. If it was, you would have no doubt.

Not doubt. A realization that the question "Does God exist?" is basically flawed. It attempts to treat the ground of existence as an existing object. My refusal to give a yes/no answer is based on a criticism of the hidden agenda of the question, not any doubt as to the answer.

But, no, God does not talk to me. Rolleyes
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
11-27-2009, 11:31 AM
Post: #5
RE: Believers, without apotheosis, you lie when saying that God exists.
(11-27-2009 06:13 AM)Parousia Wrote:  Rolleyes
(11-26-2009 09:38 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  I do not know who you communicated with but I do not think it was God. If it was, you would have no doubt.

Not doubt. A realization that the question "Does God exist?" is basically flawed. It attempts to treat the ground of existence as an existing object. My refusal to give a yes/no answer is based on a criticism of the hidden agenda of the question, not any doubt as to the answer.

But, no, God does not talk to me. Rolleyes

Not surprising.
He communicates with very few.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
11-29-2009, 11:42 PM
Post: #6
RE: Believers, without apotheosis, you lie when saying that God exists.
It strikes me that you must be referring to Christianity. Is that correct? Or are you referring to all religions?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
11-30-2009, 10:42 AM
Post: #7
RE: Believers, without apotheosis, you lie when saying that God exists.
(11-29-2009 11:42 PM)Clementine Wrote:  It strikes me that you must be referring to Christianity. Is that correct? Or are you referring to all religions?

All religions would be included in this statement.
I have no problem with I believe that God exists. That speaks to belief only and may be true.
I do have a problem with a definitive statement like God exists.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
11-30-2009, 06:36 PM
Post: #8
RE: Believers, without apotheosis, you lie when saying that God exists.
(11-30-2009 10:42 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(11-29-2009 11:42 PM)Clementine Wrote:  It strikes me that you must be referring to Christianity. Is that correct? Or are you referring to all religions?

All religions would be included in this statement.
I have no problem with I believe that God exists. That speaks to belief only and may be true.
I do have a problem with a definitive statement like God exists.

Regards
DL

Then I disagree with this very strongly. In Vodou there is apotheosis, though it is very rare, it does happen, since Bon Dieu is pandeistic, the lwa are the ones that communicate di rectly with people -- in other words, those that were elevated. Are they deities themselves? No. They are merely humans who have been elevated to a point of almost divinity.But a very large part of the lwas purpose is direct communication, direct, verbal, communication that can be witnessed by others.

If those elevated and communicate with us exist, that that elevated them must also exist.So perhaps partially you are correct,with no apotheosis at all,you cannot have proof,but with some,even if you are not the one apotheosized, there must be.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2009, 11:22 AM
Post: #9
RE: Believers, without apotheosis, you lie when saying that God exists.
(11-30-2009 06:36 PM)Clementine Wrote:  
(11-30-2009 10:42 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(11-29-2009 11:42 PM)Clementine Wrote:  It strikes me that you must be referring to Christianity. Is that correct? Or are you referring to all religions?

All religions would be included in this statement.
I have no problem with I believe that God exists. That speaks to belief only and may be true.
I do have a problem with a definitive statement like God exists.

Regards
DL

Then I disagree with this very strongly. In Vodou there is apotheosis, though it is very rare, it does happen, since Bon Dieu is pandeistic, the lwa are the ones that communicate di rectly with people -- in other words, those that were elevated. Are they deities themselves? No. They are merely humans who have been elevated to a point of almost divinity.But a very large part of the lwas purpose is direct communication, direct, verbal, communication that can be witnessed by others.

If those elevated and communicate with us exist, that that elevated them must also exist.So perhaps partially you are correct,with no apotheosis at all,you cannot have proof,but with some,even if you are not the one apotheosized, there must be.

There can be belief for the words from one apotheosized for sure but without a personal apotheosis, there is no proof for the listener.

The one apotheosized can say there is a God because he has first hand knowledge. The listener should maintain doubt till he too has the proof that apotheosis brings.

Doubt is good as it staves off naivety when hearing something from someone making a false claim. Otherwise it is just another form of faith without facts.

I hope that this brings my partially correct to a full correct in your mind.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2009, 02:57 PM
Post: #10
RE: Believers, without apotheosis, you lie when saying that God exists.
(12-01-2009 11:22 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(11-30-2009 06:36 PM)Clementine Wrote:  
(11-30-2009 10:42 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(11-29-2009 11:42 PM)Clementine Wrote:  It strikes me that you must be referring to Christianity. Is that correct? Or are you referring to all religions?

All religions would be included in this statement.
I have no problem with I believe that God exists. That speaks to belief only and may be true.
I do have a problem with a definitive statement like God exists.

Regards
DL

Then I disagree with this very strongly. In Vodou there is apotheosis, though it is very rare, it does happen, since Bon Dieu is pandeistic, the lwa are the ones that communicate di rectly with people -- in other words, those that were elevated. Are they deities themselves? No. They are merely humans who have been elevated to a point of almost divinity.But a very large part of the lwas purpose is direct communication, direct, verbal, communication that can be witnessed by others.

If those elevated and communicate with us exist, that that elevated them must also exist.So perhaps partially you are correct,with no apotheosis at all,you cannot have proof,but with some,even if you are not the one apotheosized, there must be.

There can be belief for the words from one apotheosized for sure but without a personal apotheosis, there is no proof for the listener.

The one apotheosized can say there is a God because he has first hand knowledge. The listener should maintain doubt till he too has the proof that apotheosis brings.

Doubt is good as it staves off naivety when hearing something from someone making a false claim. Otherwise it is just another form of faith without facts.

I hope that this brings my partially correct to a full correct in your mind.

Regards
DL

It really doesn't. If I experience the universe, and God is through the universe, but acts for humans through the lwa, and the Vodouisant has personal experiences with the lwa, and communication with the lwa -- then you both experience God, in the form of the universe, and his intermediaries, in the form of the lwa, I cannot say it is doubt, or faith without full facts.

The lwa will call the person the same thing in Haiti, in Benin, in New Orleans, even if no one else knows that. The proof of someone paralyzed walking while being ridden, the proof of an old lady picking me up like a rag doll -- there is proof.

so no, I do no think you are fully correct.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
Question Can either YHWH or Allah lie? And why? Hannah 60 1,708 08-14-2017 10:24 PM
Last Post: PeterPants
  If god exists........... Goldenrain 20 1,919 04-08-2017 03:18 PM
Last Post: Herminator
  A question for Believers..... Saint_of_Me 26 3,848 04-23-2015 09:13 AM
Last Post: Alison2
  Christianity is a lie, it is a conspiracy. Demon11 3 516 07-30-2014 04:58 PM
Last Post: Achrelos
  We know God exists because he pursues us! muhammad_isa 15 1,788 01-22-2014 01:13 AM
Last Post: Herminator
  Unanswered Questions from Believers TheAlchemist 38 2,338 09-24-2013 12:30 PM
Last Post: Edward
  How do you know God exists? Becky28 34 4,409 07-31-2013 07:10 PM
Last Post: Zeta
  I found many chatters on the science forum are a zero believers they are too narcissi alirda6 2 879 07-21-2013 11:06 AM
Last Post: Yefet
  Why believers do thinks this way KAYSER 41 2,591 11-15-2012 06:43 PM
Last Post: Huitaca
  Should Governments rescind the Noble Lie of religions? Greatest I am 1 382 09-26-2012 10:41 AM
Last Post: kevlar



User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)