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Biomystic: Iconoclast for God or just plain mean to peoples' cherished beliefs?
01-20-2010, 10:57 PM
Post: #1
Biomystic: Iconoclast for God or just plain mean to peoples' cherished beliefs?
As one of those awful people who gets religious visions and revelations and acts on them and worse yet, tells people about them, I find that the other side of the coin of prophesy bearing is delivering news nobody wants to hear. It pisses people off when someone tries to pull the prayer rug out from underneath them, and it especially riles them when the jerk jerking the rug out says he's doing it for God. Oh yeah, tell us another one..

Well, what can I say? It's true, I tell you. I got proof. See this here card in my wallet? Says "Prophet of God" on it, embossed lettering too. But getting back to p.o. people, I don't know how to pull my punches. It's all my father's fault for putting those boxing gloves on me at as child you see instead of letting me play with my sock dolls. But that's another story. What I want to do here is say I'm Sorry for knocking cherished beliefs off their pedestals and telling you people you've got it all wrong and just walk out of your synagogue, church, mosque, temple, coven, sports bar, whatever, and use your Scriptures for fire-starters, I don't really mean to be mean. It's just that I don't know how to deliver heavy-duty criticism with a smiley face. Then why deliver it at all knowing you aren't exactly winning friends and influencing people this way? Because I was appointed to do this job. It's in the job description. It's why God doesn't appoint milquetoasts to do this work. You know, "somebody's got to do it.." Somebody's got to come along and say, "Hey, this is a bunch of hooey" only God doesn't want atheists doing the job (I was one until my religious conversion experience at age 35) but someone very religious, a believer, but one with enough smarts to reach intellectuals who need rational reason to believe. I did. That old take on faith business never worked for me. I was a hardcase and God did a Road to Damascus trip on me and now I can see! Praise God and send your checks to..no, no, no.

I just want the people I make angry over my posts to know I bear them no ill will, nothing personal, I'm a religious fanatic, can't help myself, I've surrendered to the will of God like a good muslim Christian and just take what I post with a grain of saltpeter and paul and call me in the morning.
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01-20-2010, 11:44 PM
Post: #2
RE: Biomystic: Iconoclast for God or just plain mean to peoples' cherished beliefs?
I don't think you've been too rough, just very outspoken about a few specific ideas, like your idea of the unification of Christ and his father representing a fusion of the Canaanite Yamm and El. I have my own theories about Christianity that I must have alluded to a good number of times, and you could find a lot of the meat of them and those of many others in the "Jesus- Real or Archetypal God?" thread in God Talk. If you argue for your interpretation of Christianity there, I'll disabuse you of any guilt of being too forthright with your opinion by following suit.
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01-21-2010, 12:14 AM
Post: #3
RE: Biomystic: Iconoclast for God or just plain mean to peoples' cherished beliefs?
(01-20-2010 11:44 PM)Venedi Sporoi Wrote:  If you argue for your interpretation of Christianity there, I'll disabuse you of any guilt of being too forthright with your opinion by following suit.

Forthright is cool. But remember, boys and girls, personal attacks are a no-no. Smile If you are on the receiving end, send a Report.

Not intended specifically for present company, just an opportunity for a public service announcement. Wink
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01-21-2010, 07:52 AM (This post was last modified: 01-21-2010 07:56 AM by biomystic.)
Post: #4
RE: Biomystic: Iconoclast for God or just plain mean to peoples' cherished beliefs?
(01-20-2010 11:44 PM)Venedi Sporoi Wrote:  I don't think you've been too rough, just very outspoken about a few specific ideas, like your idea of the unification of Christ and his father representing a fusion of the Canaanite Yamm and El. I have my own theories about Christianity that I must have alluded to a good number of times, and you could find a lot of the meat of them and those of many others in the "Jesus- Real or Archetypal God?" thread in God Talk. If you argue for your interpretation of Christianity there, I'll disabuse you of any guilt of being too forthright with your opinion by following suit.

I will look through the posts there. It's true I am no scholar as I seem to be only interested in religious history that God directs me to, i.e., completely biased with not much interest in doing a scholar's thorough job of reviewing the whole available historic records of the items I've found that support the visions and revelations I've gotten mentally from T-H-E-M..Wink If you people could see my "library" of reference books you'd be appalled at the tiny selection I constantly use but so far it seems to work out--I just follow the cookie crumb trail of useful religious historical items God's put in my path that have melded together a spiritual bridge between the teachings of Jesus and humanism.
(01-21-2010 12:14 AM)Parousia Wrote:  
(01-20-2010 11:44 PM)Venedi Sporoi Wrote:  If you argue for your interpretation of Christianity there, I'll disabuse you of any guilt of being too forthright with your opinion by following suit.

Forthright is cool. But remember, boys and girls, personal attacks are a no-no. Smile If you are on the receiving end, send a Report.

Not intended specifically for present company, just an opportunity for a public service announcement. Wink

Gotcha. Muslims, Evangelical Christians, and Zionist Jews are brainwashed as groups but not as individuals..Angel
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01-21-2010, 09:43 AM
Post: #5
RE: Biomystic: Iconoclast for God or just plain mean to peoples' cherished beliefs?
(01-21-2010 07:52 AM)biomystic Wrote:  
(01-21-2010 12:14 AM)Parousia Wrote:  Forthright is cool. But remember, boys and girls, personal attacks are a no-no. Smile If you are on the receiving end, send a Report.

Not intended specifically for present company, just an opportunity for a public service announcement. Wink

Gotcha. Muslims, Evangelical Christians, and Zionist Jews are brainwashed as groups but not as individuals..Angel

To take your comment more seriously than it was (presumably) intended: Wrong! A member of a religion, ethnic group and so on can take umbrage at an insulting joke - for example - directed against that group even if it does not name him personally. Disrespect against groups qua groups still attacks a group member personally. If you have something to say about a group, keep it factual and specific. And back it up with evidence or explanation.

Incidentally, brainwashing is a very specific set of techniques with very specific intended results. To use it in a generic sense about a group can easily be insulting. The word you probably want is indoctrination. Brainwashing involves forcibly breaking down and removing an existing belief system (hence 'washing'), then replacing it with another. It is the use of force (e.g., torture) against existing beliefs that gives brainwashing its pejorative sense. Indoctrination can be used to describe any kind of teaching of specific fact, beliefs or values. We are all indoctrinated by our parents, schools, peers and so forth.

Clear?

*keeps soapbox handy this time*
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01-21-2010, 03:08 PM (This post was last modified: 01-21-2010 03:09 PM by biomystic.)
Post: #6
RE: Biomystic: Iconoclast for God or just plain mean to peoples' cherished beliefs?
(01-21-2010 09:43 AM)Parousia Wrote:  
(01-21-2010 07:52 AM)biomystic Wrote:  
(01-21-2010 12:14 AM)Parousia Wrote:  Forthright is cool. But remember, boys and girls, personal attacks are a no-no. Smile If you are on the receiving end, send a Report.

Not intended specifically for present company, just an opportunity for a public service announcement. Wink

Gotcha. Muslims, Evangelical Christians, and Zionist Jews are brainwashed as groups but not as individuals..Angel

To take your comment more seriously than it was (presumably) intended: Wrong! A member of a religion, ethnic group and so on can take umbrage at an insulting joke - for example - directed against that group even if it does not name him personally. Disrespect against groups qua groups still attacks a group member personally. If you have something to say about a group, keep it factual and specific. And back it up with evidence or explanation.

Incidentally, brainwashing is a very specific set of techniques with very specific intended results. To use it in a generic sense about a group can easily be insulting. The word you probably want is indoctrination. Brainwashing involves forcibly breaking down and removing an existing belief system (hence 'washing'), then replacing it with another. It is the use of force (e.g., torture) against existing beliefs that gives brainwashing its pejorative sense. Indoctrination can be used to describe any kind of teaching of specific fact, beliefs or values. We are all indoctrinated by our parents, schools, peers and so forth.

Clear?

*keeps soapbox handy this time*

No. When one is directed by one's religion to indoctrinate one's mind five times a day with a specific set of instructions that forbids questioning the source of religious information, and when one's community backs up this means of enforcing a specific religious mentality handed down through the generations with threat of death for refusal to partake (apostate) then to me, it is the same thing as brainwashing. Anything contrary to the official religious line is branded evil and to be punished severely and that is coercion if not by direct assault then by extreme social pressure. Are we to ignore this reality and not allowed to express our honest opinions about it?
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01-21-2010, 03:32 PM
Post: #7
RE: Biomystic: Iconoclast for God or just plain mean to peoples' cherished beliefs?
(01-21-2010 03:08 PM)biomystic Wrote:  No. When one is directed by one's religion to indoctrinate one's mind five times a day with a specific set of instructions that forbids questioning the source of religious information, and when one's community backs up this means of enforcing a specific religious mentality handed down through the generations with threat of death for refusal to partake (apostate) then to me, it is the same thing as brainwashing. Anything contrary to the official religious line is branded evil and to be punished severely and that coercion if not by direct assault then by extreme social pressure. Are we to ignore this reality and not allowed to express our honest opinions about it?

You can express any opinion you want. If it puts others in a bad light it needs to be argued cohesively, as you have just done. What you have posted is something that can be responded to point by point (but not by me).

What you are describing is fundamentalist religion in general. And in my opinion the criticisms are valid. It is ironic though that one often finds the most opposition to a particular fundamentalist religion from members of another fundamentalist religion. Big Grin Indoctrination in one fundamentalist religion is often referred to by members of the other one as 'brainwashing'. It is the reduction of a difference of opinion to mere name calling that I see as problematic, not free open debate on the matter. All that results from name calling or other non-rational action is radicalization as each side becomes more entrenched in their beliefs and more extreme in their attitude.
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01-21-2010, 05:24 PM
Post: #8
RE: Biomystic: Iconoclast for God or just plain mean to peoples' cherished beliefs?
(01-21-2010 03:32 PM)Parousia Wrote:  
(01-21-2010 03:08 PM)biomystic Wrote:  No. When one is directed by one's religion to indoctrinate one's mind five times a day with a specific set of instructions that forbids questioning the source of religious information, and when one's community backs up this means of enforcing a specific religious mentality handed down through the generations with threat of death for refusal to partake (apostate) then to me, it is the same thing as brainwashing. Anything contrary to the official religious line is branded evil and to be punished severely and that coercion if not by direct assault then by extreme social pressure. Are we to ignore this reality and not allowed to express our honest opinions about it?

You can express any opinion you want. If it puts others in a bad light it needs to be argued cohesively, as you have just done. What you have posted is something that can be responded to point by point (but not by me).

What you are describing is fundamentalist religion in general. And in my opinion the criticisms are valid. It is ironic though that one often finds the most opposition to a particular fundamentalist religion from members of another fundamentalist religion. Big Grin Indoctrination in one fundamentalist religion is often referred to by members of the other one as 'brainwashing'. It is the reduction of a difference of opinion to mere name calling that I see as problematic, not free open debate on the matter. All that results from name calling or other non-rational action is radicalization as each side becomes more entrenched in their beliefs and more extreme in their attitude.

Ok. Now where was I...oh yes, more about the fundamental and sacrosanct Biomystical Christian belief system..Tongue
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01-22-2010, 05:03 AM
Post: #9
RE: Biomystic: Iconoclast for God or just plain mean to peoples' cherished beliefs?
(01-21-2010 05:24 PM)biomystic Wrote:  Ok. Now where was I...oh yes, more about the fundamental and sacrosanct Biomystical Christian belief system..Tongue

Well? Where is it?
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01-22-2010, 08:16 AM
Post: #10
RE: Biomystic: Iconoclast for God or just plain mean to peoples' cherished beliefs?
So far Azrael is proving to be this forum's more interesting Gnostic Christian, in my opinion.
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