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Christianity and the Sumerians
05-19-2010, 11:37 AM
Post: #1
Christianity and the Sumerians
Ok, PrDaminco. Let's hear your side. Please don't just post everything right away. Stick to one point first, keep it concise, and if you feel it would help, cite references. I'm sure you have many things you want to say, but lets talk about one thing/proof/evidence at a time, then we'll move on to the next reason you say Christianity is borrowed Sumerian lore...
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05-19-2010, 03:17 PM
Post: #2
RE: Christianity and the Sumerians
sorry if Im not supposed to add here but. It definitely is Sumerian to the extent that those who wrote everything were in fact Sumerians or got the stories from Sumeria. That was the land between the Gangas and I think the Nile river. Not everything is Sumerian, and actually only the old testament has anything to do with Sumeria, but that is neither here nor there when Jesus was Jewish. Sumeria was the origin of humanity as we know it, its quite easy to speculate that all religion in fact is based from something apart of there. You might as well consider Sumeria the origins of life and expect everything to lead back to it.

heh....in fact Israel is located with Sumeria!
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05-19-2010, 04:31 PM
Post: #3
RE: Christianity and the Sumerians
(05-19-2010 03:17 PM)azurescen Wrote:  Sumeria was the origin of humanity as we know it, its quite easy to speculate that all religion in fact is based from something apart of there. You might as well consider Sumeria the origins of life and expect everything to lead back to it.

Wow! Two staggeringly ignorant statements in one paragraph!

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05-19-2010, 06:29 PM
Post: #4
RE: Christianity and the Sumerians
lololol....YOUR right!

not
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05-19-2010, 09:28 PM (This post was last modified: 05-19-2010 09:44 PM by prdamico.)
Post: #5
RE: Christianity and the Sumerians
Posted by Christian_Chris - Today 12:37 PM
Ok, PrDaminco. Let's hear your side. Please don't just post everything right away. Stick to one point first, keep it concise, and if you feel it would help, cite references. I'm sure you have many things you want to say, but lets talk about one thing/proof/evidence at a time, then we'll move on to the next reason you say Christianity is borrowed Sumerian lore...

OKAY WE WILL START WITH E.DEN 9 at the beginning, why not )


NOTE: E.DEN

The origin of the term "Eden", which in Hebrew means "delight", may lie with the Akkadian word edinu, which itself derives from the Sumerian term E.DIN. The Sumerian term means "plain" or "steppe", so the connection between the words may be coincidental, although this word is known to have been used by the Sumerians to refer to Mesopotamia as the "valley of E'din", meaning the fertile lands between the Tigris and Euphrates.

NOTES:

( KING JAMES VERSION )
22 Then the Lord God said, ‘See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever’— 23therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. 24He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a sword flaming and turning to guard the way to the tree of life.

( first of all NOTICE: the man has become like one of US - us being the key word - in the original story , there were more then one GOD ( DIN.GIR ) present..

Notice the word Lord before the word God ??
here is why:

# Bel meaning 'Lord' is a common title of the Babylonian deity Marduk.
# En meaning 'Lord' as in Sumerian deities Enki and Enlil.


TREE OF LIFE :

The original Sumerian (Indo-Iranian) concept was that wisdom is likened to a tree whose fruit endows those who eat it with health and longevity. The symbol of an elixir of life had already been well established in antiquity by the Indo-Iranian cultures long before Judaism, Christianity, Islam and other cultures had the opportunity to recognise it.
A 4,500 year old clay tablet shows a man and a woman seated below the Tree of Life. Behind the woman is seen a serpent allegedly ‘tempting’ the woman.


THE SERPENT : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ningishzida

The oldest known representation of two snakes entwined around a rod is that of the Sumerian fertility god Ningizzida. Enki's youngest son, Ningizzida, was Lord of the Tree of Truth, in Mesopotamia. His name in Sumerian is translated as "lord of the good tree, His symbolic animal is the bashmu dragon, a type of snake with horns. He was sometimes depicted as a serpent with a human head


Here is a link to an Sumerian cylinder seal ( it is from around 2,400 BC - so it is not in the best of shape or quality )

but you can clearly see tree of life in center, man on right, woman on left, and WOW is that a serpent on the left behind the woman ????

http://www.vohuman.org/Article/The%20Sum...20Life.htm

here is a different seal of the tree of life

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_n9UpCIi9Waw/Su...hakras.jpg

Here is another

http://doormann.tripod.com/iitree01.jpg

you need more proof ?


:-)
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05-19-2010, 10:39 PM
Post: #6
RE: Christianity and the Sumerians
This is Judaism, and by extension, all Abrahamic religion. The New Testament does not show Sumerian traits, so far as I know.
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05-20-2010, 12:06 AM (This post was last modified: 05-20-2010 12:46 AM by prdamico.)
Post: #7
RE: Christianity and the Sumerians
(05-19-2010 10:39 PM)Venedi Sporoi Wrote:  This is Judaism, and by extension, all Abrahamic religion. The New Testament does not show Sumerian traits, so far as I know.


There is one interesting similarity regarding:

JESUS and DUMUZI

We have one Dumuzi known as " the shepherd" and " lord of the "sheepfolds ", who stands at the GATES OF HEAVEN , and one known as

"the fisherman ', and the one was actually resurrected from the dead.

The Sumerian form of Tammuz. A god of vegetation and fertility, and also of the underworld. He is called 'the Shepherd' and 'lord of the sheepfolds'. As the companion of Nigizzida 'to all eternity' he stands at the gate of heaven. In the Sumerian Descent of Inanna he is the husband of the goddess Inanna, the Sumerian counterpart of Ishtar. According to the Sumerian King-List Gilgamesh was descended from 'Dumuzi a shepherd'.

Dumuzi was originally a mortal ruler whose marriage to Inanna ensured the fertility of the land and the fecundity of the womb. This marriage, however, according to a myth whose denouncement has only recently come to light, ended in stark tragedy when the goddess, offended by her husband's unfeeling behavior toward her, decreed that he be carried off to the netherworld for six months of each year-hence the barren, sterile months of the hot summer. At the autumnal equinox, which marked the beginning of the Sumerian new year, Dumuzi returned to the earth. His reunion with his wife caused all animal and plant life to be revitalized and made fertile once again.


Dumuzid (= "true/right child/son" in Sumerian), "the Fisherman", originally from Kuara in Sumer, was the 3rd king in the 1st Dynasty of Uruk and Gilgamesh's predecessor, according to the Sumerian king list.

SUMERIAN KINGS LIST

Dumuzid (Dumuzi) "the fisherman whose city was Kuara."
("He captured En-me-barage-si single-handed.")* 100 years ca. 2600 BC

En-men-lu-ana 12 sars (43,200 years)
En-men-gal-ana 8 sars (28,800 years)
Dumuzid, the Shepherd "the shepherd" 10 sars (36,000 years)

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/d/dumuzi.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumuzid,_the_Fisherman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumuzid,_the_Shepherd




HISTORY IS REALLY AMAZING


:-)
(05-19-2010 04:31 PM)MerryAtheist Wrote:  
(05-19-2010 03:17 PM)azurescen Wrote:  Sumeria was the origin of humanity as we know it, its quite easy to speculate that all religion in fact is based from something apart of there. You might as well consider Sumeria the origins of life and expect everything to lead back to it.

Wow! Two staggeringly ignorant statements in one paragraph!

ACTUALLY NOT IGNORANT STATEMENTS, not exactly accurate, but very close to the truth..

( Tigris and Euphrates by the way..)

Christianity and Catholicism can trace there roots ( genesis ) to Sumeria

Sumeria, invented writing, the wheel, government, religion, record keeping, school books, written recipes, written laws, the concept of a king, the concept of a kingdom, etc. etc.

So YES all of us, can TRACE A LOT back to ancient Sumeria

we could do that with any Civilization that developed writing first and wrote it all down,

but it was the SUMERIANS....
then the Akkadians
then the babylonians

who BOTH used Sumerian RELIGION and WRITTEN LANGUAGE

so SUMERIAN religion and writing basically DOMINATED a good percentage of early civilizations for about the first 4,000 years !!!! and influenced many many others,

and yes the Egyptians, the Romans, the Greeks, Persians, etc. all had influence also, but we do not have Egyptian GODs in the garden of eden, nor Roman, nor Greek, nor Persian, but Sumerian......

and although Democracy comes from Greece, and a lot of ideas from Rome (the Senate, Colosseum,etc ), Greece and Rome were also influenced by Babylonia, and the middle east, heck Romans even worshiped Mithra, and Isis from Egypt, Greeks wrote about visiting Babylon, so EVERYONE was influencing EVERYONE back then, just as today.

but sorry

SUMERIA was the first for too many of the things that exist today...






:-)

Christian_Chris
Junior Member
**

LET ME KNOW WHEN YOUR READY FOR THE FLOOD STORIES

from Sumeria ( 2,500 BC ), Akkadia ( 2200 BC ) , and Babylonia ( 1800 BC )...


compared to the one in Genesis

When was Genesis written, given that man had not been created at the dawning of time or that man could not have witnessed all that transpired? Bible scholars believe that Genesis was written by Moses, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, during the forty years that the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness (1450 - 1410 B.C.). Moses was chosen by God to deliver the children of Israel from Egyptian bondage. The details of his life are recorded in the Old Testament book of Exodus.



:-)
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05-20-2010, 03:52 AM
Post: #8
RE: Christianity and the Sumerians
(05-20-2010 12:06 AM)prdamico Wrote:  
(05-19-2010 10:39 PM)Venedi Sporoi Wrote:  This is Judaism, and by extension, all Abrahamic religion. The New Testament does not show Sumerian traits, so far as I know.


There is one interesting similarity regarding:

JESUS and DUMUZI

We have one Dumuzi known as " the shepherd" and " lord of the "sheepfolds ", who stands at the GATES OF HEAVEN , and one known as

"the fisherman ', and the one was actually resurrected from the dead.

The Sumerian form of Tammuz. A god of vegetation and fertility, and also of the underworld. He is called 'the Shepherd' and 'lord of the sheepfolds'. As the companion of Nigizzida 'to all eternity' he stands at the gate of heaven. In the Sumerian Descent of Inanna he is the husband of the goddess Inanna, the Sumerian counterpart of Ishtar. According to the Sumerian King-List Gilgamesh was descended from 'Dumuzi a shepherd'.

Dumuzi was originally a mortal ruler whose marriage to Inanna ensured the fertility of the land and the fecundity of the womb. This marriage, however, according to a myth whose denouncement has only recently come to light, ended in stark tragedy when the goddess, offended by her husband's unfeeling behavior toward her, decreed that he be carried off to the netherworld for six months of each year-hence the barren, sterile months of the hot summer. At the autumnal equinox, which marked the beginning of the Sumerian new year, Dumuzi returned to the earth. His reunion with his wife caused all animal and plant life to be revitalized and made fertile once again.


Dumuzid (= "true/right child/son" in Sumerian), "the Fisherman", originally from Kuara in Sumer, was the 3rd king in the 1st Dynasty of Uruk and Gilgamesh's predecessor, according to the Sumerian king list.

SUMERIAN KINGS LIST

Dumuzid (Dumuzi) "the fisherman whose city was Kuara."
("He captured En-me-barage-si single-handed.")* 100 years ca. 2600 BC

En-men-lu-ana 12 sars (43,200 years)
En-men-gal-ana 8 sars (28,800 years)
Dumuzid, the Shepherd "the shepherd" 10 sars (36,000 years)

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/d/dumuzi.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumuzid,_the_Fisherman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumuzid,_the_Shepherd




HISTORY IS REALLY AMAZING


:-)

I know of Tammuz, and of course Christ seems to resemble that basic mythic format, but no more than with any sacrificial rebirth God. There's nothing uniquely Sumerian about such deities. If you've read anything I've written, you know the New Testament is MY thing to rant about, and I say it's Hellenic. You can have the Old Testament though. XD

What do you say to the claims made by some on this forum though that Judaism evolved primarily out of Caananite polytheism? It seems likely to me, though it seems certain that the people of Caanan were influenced by their Mesopotamian neighbors.
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05-20-2010, 09:18 AM (This post was last modified: 05-20-2010 09:19 AM by prdamico.)
Post: #9
RE: Christianity and the Sumerians
(05-20-2010 03:52 AM)Venedi Sporoi Wrote:  I know of Tammuz, and of course Christ seems to resemble that basic mythic format, but no more than with any sacrificial rebirth God. There's nothing uniquely Sumerian about such deities. If you've read anything I've written, you know the New Testament is MY thing to rant about, and I say it's Hellenic. You can have the Old Testament though. XD

What do you say to the claims made by some on this forum though that Judaism evolved primarily out of Caananite polytheism? It seems likely to me, though it seems certain that the people of Caanan were influenced by their Mesopotamian neighbors.

Yes the Hebrews copied as many religions as they could to develop there own "unique" religion which was not really unique, or original, but just a retelling of the SAME OLD STORIES that have been told for thousands of years..

TAMMUZ :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammuz_%28deity%29

Even there months have Babylonian-akkadian-sumerian origins.
Tishrei · Cheshvan · Kislev · Tevet · Shevat · Adar · Nisan · Iyar · Sivan · Tammuz · Av · Elul

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammuz_%28Hebrew_month%29

it is very clear that Judiasm and Christianity are both just religions on the SAME EVOLUTIONARY pathway...

of course you have to ask yourself, knowing all of this TO BE TRUE

when you worship the GOD ( GOD's really ) of the old TESTAMENT, you are really worshiping ANCIENT GOD'S and GODDESSES, the very BIBLE says not to WORSHIP.. GOD says do not worship any GOD but me, but ME is really another GOD..

the perfect contradiction...


:-)
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05-21-2010, 05:08 AM
Post: #10
RE: Christianity and the Sumerians
(05-20-2010 09:18 AM)prdamico Wrote:  it is very clear that Judiasm and Christianity are both just religions on the SAME EVOLUTIONARY pathway...

See now, that's just the thing I take issue with. On the surface, Christianity sells itself as the logical conclusion of Judaism, but if you actually study Judaism, the direction Christianity takes is somewhat puzzling. Think about it. They gave God a son, a sacrificial man-god, introduced Hell, original sin, the trinity, and began ceremonially eating God. I could send you my paper on the subject, if you like.

As for the jealous God of the Israelites, I've heard some suggest the Caananite El. I really can't say for certain who he is, or why he insists on monotheism, if indeed he does, but as a polytheist it's no great concern to me.
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