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Cloning
10-28-2008, 04:45 PM
Post: #1
Cloning
Although we can't create a clone of a human being yet, the day is not far off when we will be able to.

So, the question is: Is a clone of a human being a human being with a soul?

What do you think?
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11-03-2008, 01:15 PM
Post: #2
RE: Cloning
just another animal
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11-07-2008, 03:06 PM
Post: #3
RE: Cloning
If it is made from human DNA then it is a human being.

The problem now becomes that we are now acting as Gods-deciding not only when life begins and ends, but also how and for what purpose.

This is utilitarianism. We are not just animals. We have an eternal destiny. If human rights is the priciple that human beings are not subject to dominion by other humans then we've thrown that principle right out the window.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing..."-Darth Vader
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11-07-2008, 03:15 PM
Post: #4
RE: Cloning
The Grey Pilgrim Wrote:If it is made from human DNA then it is a human being.

The problem now becomes that we are now acting as Gods-deciding not only when life begins and ends, but also how and for what purpose.

This is utilitarianism. We are not just animals. We have an eternal destiny. If human rights is the priciple that human beings are not subject to dominion by other humans then we've thrown that principle right out the window.

We've been doing that for decades through abortion.

Justice -- When you get what you deserve.
Mercy -- When you don't get what you deserve.
Grace -- When you get what you don't deserve.
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11-11-2008, 03:04 PM
Post: #5
RE: Cloning
Alison Wrote:
The Grey Pilgrim Wrote:If it is made from human DNA then it is a human being.

The problem now becomes that we are now acting as Gods-deciding not only when life begins and ends, but also how and for what purpose.

This is utilitarianism. We are not just animals. We have an eternal destiny. If human rights is the priciple that human beings are not subject to dominion by other humans then we've thrown that principle right out the window.

We've been doing that for decades through abortion.

And just because we've made it sterile doesn't make it justified. We do not have the right to use human beings this way.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing..."-Darth Vader
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11-11-2008, 03:53 PM
Post: #6
RE: Cloning
The Grey Pilgrim Wrote:If it is made from human DNA then it is a human being.

The problem now becomes that we are now acting as Gods-deciding not only when life begins and ends, but also how and for what purpose.

How did you get that out of the OP? The first statement answers the question, but everything after that makes it sound like you think cloned humans will be bred exclusively for forced labor by nefarious and mysterious persons lurking in the shadows of a proper society. That is, until said forced laborer clones obtain self-awareness, resulting in a bloody, violent overthrow of their sinister masters during their quest for self-fulfillment. I think you should watch less sci-fi. Maybe I should watch less sci-fi... Big Grin

Oh, my view is that they would be people...just like everyone else. They would provide interesting test subjects in nature vs. nurture experiments performed by unscrupulous sociologists though.

If ignorance is bliss why aren't there more happy people?
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11-11-2008, 04:43 PM
Post: #7
RE: Cloning
So you don't see any possible way that cloning could and would be used for exploitative purposes?

"I find your lack of faith disturbing..."-Darth Vader
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11-11-2008, 05:03 PM
Post: #8
RE: Cloning
The Grey Pilgrim Wrote:So you don't see any possible way that cloning could and would be used for exploitative purposes?

Could? Absolutely. Just about every scientific advance presents the opportunity for exploitation. Would? Not likely. Well, not likely in America. Too many human rights groups exist now, and a return to slavery would not be tolerated. Would probably happen in China though. Wink

If ignorance is bliss why aren't there more happy people?
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11-11-2008, 05:14 PM
Post: #9
RE: Cloning
I realize it's just a television show ... but does anyone watch Eleventh Hour? They had this episode not too long ago.

Also, Damian ... I immediately thought of I, Robot while reading your post. Smile

Here's my thing ... I'm all for stem cell research with a family full of alzheimer's, heart disease and diabetes (genetic ... not poor habits) .

Would I like to see some serious research done? You bet. Do I think there should be tight, stringent, 'thumb on the back of their head' regulations that allow no wiggle room? You bet. Therein lies the problem. There are already people sick enough to clone their [child, wife, husband, mother, father, sibling] because they died ... or weren't 'perfect' the first time or because one needs a kidney, lung, heart, arm, leg, ovary or whatever.

That's the part that's wrong.

I'm not a scientist in any way and will never pretend to be intelligent in that regard. However, if we (humans) were able to create antibiotics and other medicines that heal, then I certainly see where stem cells could do a lot of diseases a lot of good. But they would have to be regulated, researched to the hilt, studied, blind studied, double blind studied and then followed for a decade before they're just unleased on the public by Big Pharmaceutical.

Now, having said all of that, let me just say that I have a high needs child that could probably be 'cured' (by worldly standards) by stem cell research, etc. Would I want that?

Nope.

He, in my belief, is perfect. I believe that he is exactly how he is supposed to be. There's nothing 'wrong' with him. God made him different. God made him perfect. But that's my belief.

Science and faith will probably never ever mix ... and when you toss the government in the mix, it really gets ugly.

Justice -- When you get what you deserve.
Mercy -- When you don't get what you deserve.
Grace -- When you get what you don't deserve.
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11-11-2008, 05:14 PM
Post: #10
RE: Cloning
damian.hoffman Wrote:
The Grey Pilgrim Wrote:So you don't see any possible way that cloning could and would be used for exploitative purposes?

Could? Absolutely. Just about every scientific advance presents the opportunity for exploitation. Would? Not likely. Well, not likely in America. Too many human rights groups exist now, and a return to slavery would not be tolerated. Would probably happen in China though. Wink

So then wouldn't the wiser course of action be to not clone rather than to clone and allow the possibility of such exploitation?

"I find your lack of faith disturbing..."-Darth Vader
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