Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Designer babies
07-25-2013, 02:19 AM
Post: #1
Designer babies
http://singularityhub.com/2009/02/25...ere-they-come/


I have a sneaking suspicion that of all the opinions I've posted, this may end up being the most controversial, but....

I have no problem with the idea of designer babies.

Think of it; in the short term, we could eliminate ALL inherited diseases. In the medium term, every single human would become stronger, smarter, better-looking, more talented in every imaginable area. In the long term, we could become kinder, more compassionate, more far-seeing. We could, in principal, weaken or maybe eliminate many of our collective flaws, and enhance many of our collective strengths. Less aggression, more compassion. More confident, more prudent. More of whatever traits aid us in solving the world's problems, less of whatever traits cause us to kill each other, our fellow creatures, and our environment.

And each of these transitions (and in principal, all of them) could happen as quickly as a single generation.

No single step in the search for enlightenment should ever be considered sacred; only the search should.
-Ann Druyan
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-25-2013, 10:41 AM
Post: #2
RE: Designer babies
What if Orientation was proven to be genetic? Should parents be allowed to decide that?

Wouldn't every person turn out looking "perfect?"

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-25-2013, 12:23 PM
Post: #3
RE: Designer babies
(07-25-2013 10:41 AM)Azrael17 Wrote:  What if Orientation was proven to be genetic? Should parents be allowed to decide that?

Hadn't thought of that. But I don't see that as being too big an issue. As a society, we are growing more tolerant extremely rapidly.

Quote:Wouldn't every person turn out looking "perfect?"

Perfection is in the eye of the beholder; I suspect not all parents would have the same idea of "perfect," and thus people would still look different. And besides, any traits not specifically set would still be determined by genetic chance, just as they are now.

No single step in the search for enlightenment should ever be considered sacred; only the search should.
-Ann Druyan
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-25-2013, 02:44 PM
Post: #4
RE: Designer babies
I do not agree with designer babies. There are far too many ways it could be abused.

Quote:Perfection is in the eye of the beholder; I suspect not all parents would have the same idea of "perfect," and thus people would still look different. And besides, any traits not specifically set would still be determined by genetic chance, just as they are now.

My mother had "dark" skin. She bleached it because she hated it. She wished every night that I would look "white." Well, I do. And I hate it. I'm too "white" for that half mother's heritage to accept me, despite any pull I might feel to them. She wanted me to have life easier and not look like her. Well, life is easier in some respects, but I'd love to not look exactly like another white Scottish girl. What my mother wanted and what I would like does not dovetail. I wish I could look in the mirror and see my mother. I can't. There are a lot of self-hating people out there who would make their children look the way they want in a second, without thought to the consequences for the child.

There are billion dollar industries in genealogy and DNA tests for adopted kids to find out where their DNA comes from. Where this skill or that trait came from. Designer babies take away the anchor that we all come from somewhere away. It severs connections.

It's too much like the Twilight Zone episode "Number 12 Looks Just Like You." What's to stop an Asian mother from going in to a designer baby clinic and saying "I want my baby to look like Beyonce?"

Quote:Think of it; in the short term, we could eliminate ALL inherited diseases.

So, who cares about the African man who developed sickle-cell anemia to protect himself from malaria, right?

Quote:n the medium term, every single human would become stronger, smarter, better-looking, more talented in every imaginable area. In the long term, we could become kinder, more compassionate, more far-seeing. We could, in principal, weaken or maybe eliminate many of our collective flaws, and enhance many of our collective strengths. Less aggression, more compassion. More confident, more prudent. More of whatever traits aid us in solving the world's problems, less of whatever traits cause us to kill each other, our fellow creatures, and our environment.

Going back to Sci-Fi, because I am a geek, at what cost? What psychological damage, or other damage would occur? In Doctor Who, it caused the creation of "The Infected" of New Earth to cure the "rich" people's problems, and because they were created, who cared what happened to them. Or worse, the Reavers in Serenity, created by a government who experimented with adding an additive to the air to weed out aggression, to make people "kinder" and more "compassionate" to make them more peaceful. 90% laid down and died, and the other 10% went off their rockers and started cutting on themselves and others, along with rape and cannibalism, but "they meant it for the best."

And what if someone wouldn't want their child "fixed?"
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-25-2013, 03:32 PM
Post: #5
RE: Designer babies
My worry is parents who design deformed babies or something like that for their own whimsical wants.

Surely, legislation would need to be in place to prevent such a thing.

"To yield and give way to our passions is the lowest slavery, even as to rule over them is the only liberty." -Justin Martyr
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-25-2013, 09:29 PM (This post was last modified: 07-25-2013 09:38 PM by rocketboy9000.)
Post: #6
RE: Designer babies
I'm more worried about... If every baby gets the same "excellent" immune system, then one disease (or, more chillingly, one bioweapon) could easily cause a very literal genocide. Good government controls could prevent that and other problems, but that will probably only happen after some sort of "wake-up call" disaster or atrocity.

Also, the problems of genetic disease are most easily dealt with in a more low-tech manner, by simply being choosy about whose genes you mix yours with, and making sure your wife does not carry the same recessive disease genes. Already, to alleviate the genetic diseases caused by Jewish inbreeding, matchmaking services can match Jewish men with Jewish women whose genetics will not increase the risk of disease. (However, that is much easier alleviated simply by Jewish men not dating Jewish women and vice versa.)
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-25-2013, 09:55 PM
Post: #7
RE: Designer babies
SS,
In my study group and Kabbalah in general we spend a lot of time discussion things like this, Every trait we have is for a reason, while I understand that what one may call a bad trait or flaw and even what we consider a strength nature did a pretty good job on its own, every time we try to "fix" a problem we end up in the long run making it worse, every time we have a great technical or environmental accomplishment we cause a bigger or more complex problem, maybe not in this generation, because we have applied the temporary band aid.
charity comes to mind, we swear we are doing the right thing and at the time it feels good but we created war lords and genocide
to get the treasure of the financial aid packages, we try and fix the environment and we set off some other problem that we did not see before, there is a Yiddish saying about fruit, that if we think of the unripe fruit as horrible, bitter and not worthy of consumption because of all the negative traits, taste, texture etc, how is man any different? he needs these traits as the fruit needs to be left on its vine, after man has grown and experienced everything there is then he can determine If his traits or this life contains flaws, in other words he needs to ripen before Judgement is passed if its bitter, flawed or sweet or a strength
Everyone of our so called problems is because we take more than what we need to survive, its called the Egotistical will to receive. If we lived within natures laws we would not feel anything as a shortcoming or negative but would consider everything as a blessing (which is the Kabblistic Concept of Messiah) but we need this Ego right now, we need to see these flaws in order to know we are the created, the exact opposite of nature, more and more people are losing faith in religions, they are outgrowing it because it no longer offer's the ego pleasure where science and a secular lifestyle does and these are all good signs that the ego is beginning to ripen, so to speak.
Changing Nature is pointless if not destructive to a Kabbalist, in other words don't fix what isn't broken, what is broken on purpose is our very nature, but for a deliberate reason. Once we realize we can longer sustain our world because of our nature to receive in abundance or more than we need we see how opposite of the laws of nature we are and our Messiah will replace for oneself to that of others, until then I still enjoy all the stuff and my less then positive traits because I know its for a direct and purposeful reason, to get me to see and understand how the system works
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-26-2013, 12:04 AM
Post: #8
RE: Designer babies
(07-25-2013 09:29 PM)rocketboy9000 Wrote:  I'm more worried about... If every baby gets the same "excellent" immune system, then one disease (or, more chillingly, one bioweapon) could easily cause a very literal genocide. Good government controls could prevent that and other problems, but that will probably only happen after some sort of "wake-up call" disaster or atrocity.

Also, the problems of genetic disease are most easily dealt with in a more low-tech manner, by simply being choosy about whose genes you mix yours with, and making sure your wife does not carry the same recessive disease genes. Already, to alleviate the genetic diseases caused by Jewish inbreeding, matchmaking services can match Jewish men with Jewish women whose genetics will not increase the risk of disease. (However, that is much easier alleviated simply by Jewish men not dating Jewish women and vice versa.)

Good point about the genocide. Hadn't thought of it.

Also: isn't the second thing you are discussing eugenics?

"To yield and give way to our passions is the lowest slavery, even as to rule over them is the only liberty." -Justin Martyr
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-26-2013, 07:09 AM
Post: #9
RE: Designer babies
(07-26-2013 12:04 AM)shiverleaf15 Wrote:  
(07-25-2013 09:29 PM)rocketboy9000 Wrote:  I'm more worried about... If every baby gets the same "excellent" immune system, then one disease (or, more chillingly, one bioweapon) could easily cause a very literal genocide. Good government controls could prevent that and other problems, but that will probably only happen after some sort of "wake-up call" disaster or atrocity.

Also, the problems of genetic disease are most easily dealt with in a more low-tech manner, by simply being choosy about whose genes you mix yours with, and making sure your wife does not carry the same recessive disease genes. Already, to alleviate the genetic diseases caused by Jewish inbreeding, matchmaking services can match Jewish men with Jewish women whose genetics will not increase the risk of disease. (However, that is much easier alleviated simply by Jewish men not dating Jewish women and vice versa.)

Good point about the genocide. Hadn't thought of it.

Also: isn't the second thing you are discussing eugenics?
It is eugenics, sort of. Many Ashkenazi Jews carry recessive genes that cause Tay–Sachs disease and liposomal storage disorders, among others. If your wife has the same recessive traits, then there is a large risk that your children will be born with terrible diseases. Thus it is paramount to either get genetic tests, or only date within groups where the risk of having the same recessive genes is negligible.
The same sort of risk applies to many small ethnic groups which historically have tended only to marry insiders. From my point of view, the ideal woman, genetically speaking, would be as dissimilar as possible to my own genes, and thus have almost zero chance of this risk. Of course, I'm already protected a lot by the fact that my father is not Ashkenazi. But I do not see any point in taking this kind of risk.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-29-2013, 08:54 PM
Post: #10
RE: Designer babies
(07-25-2013 09:29 PM)rocketboy9000 Wrote:  I'm more worried about... If every baby gets the same "excellent" immune system, then one disease (or, more chillingly, one bioweapon) could easily cause a very literal genocide. Good government controls could prevent that and other problems, but that will probably only happen after some sort of "wake-up call" disaster or atrocity.

This is something I hadn't considered. The "normal" process of breeding has proven itself as a substantially good survival mechanism (on a whole). Messing with this could be dangerously stupid of us.

Join Atheism Today! Be sure to ask about our sexy parties. Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)