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Did God cause the Tsunami?
04-19-2011, 12:01 AM
Post: #1
Did God cause the Tsunami?
What is God's relationship to the Tsunami in Japan?

Did he cause it?

If he knew it was going to happen, why not prevent it, it is far beyond anything humans could prevent. Or did he just allow it to happen as an a random act even though he knew the suffering that would result from it? Does that suffering even matter?

What about the all the small, innocent children whose entirely family: parents, close relatives, distant relatives, close friends... all died. They are left alone and will grow up with a human experience and level of sadness that very few other humans have ever felt. Did they deserve it or does that even matter?
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04-19-2011, 02:40 AM
Post: #2
RE: Did God cause the Tsunami?
I don't know about that but in 2004 Santa decided not to give presents to Indonesia or Sri Lanka, so he just flew over and gave them a wave...

????????????????
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04-19-2011, 03:10 AM
Post: #3
RE: Did God cause the Tsunami?
(04-19-2011 12:01 AM)antib Wrote:  What is God's relationship to the Tsunami in Japan?

Did he cause it?

If he knew it was going to happen, why not prevent it, it is far beyond anything humans could prevent. Or did he just allow it to happen as an a random act even though he knew the suffering that would result from it? Does that suffering even matter?

What about the all the small, innocent children whose entirely family: parents, close relatives, distant relatives, close friends... all died. They are left alone and will grow up with a human experience and level of sadness that very few other humans have ever felt. Did they deserve it or does that even matter?

Assuming there was a God why would he give a crap about us anyway and if he did give a crap then things like that wouldn't happen. When good stuff happens it is god being merciful and loving, when sh*t happens either it's our fault because of free will or the devil did it. What's wrong with admitting sh*t happens? Sometimes it is good sh*t, sometimes it is bad sh*t. But it all just happens.

He who has a why to live for can bear almost any how. - Nietzsche
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04-19-2011, 03:12 AM (This post was last modified: 04-19-2011 03:14 AM by Wolty.)
Post: #4
RE: Did God cause the Tsunami?
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

This Epicurus quote predated christianity by at least 400 years and maybe longer.


Quote: when sh*t happens either it's our fault because of free will or the devil did it.

Of course we have free will, we didn't have a choice. :-)
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04-19-2011, 05:56 AM
Post: #5
RE: Did God cause the Tsunami?
(04-19-2011 12:01 AM)antib Wrote:  What is God's relationship to the Tsunami in Japan?

Did he cause it?

Now just a moment..
When a nation becomes wealthy and everybody's busy enjoying themselves spending their money, does anybody accuse God of giving them that wealth?
That wealth is a test for them, and many nations become away from the rememberance of God when "the going get's good"..

When a nation becomes impoverished or some catastrophe occurs, then human beings complain, trying to find somebody to blame. What they don't seem to realise, is that 9 times out of 10, they have THEMSELVES to blame!

If mankind decides to send bombers to destroy a city, it would be possible for God to make the bombs fail to explode, but usually, He doesn't interfere with our lives, and has given us the responsibility of shunning evil.
We haven't proved ourselves very worthy of this, yet among mankind there are pious, sincere, peace-loving people.

If everytime a serious car/plane accident was to occur, He rewrote the laws of physics, then this world wouldn't be the world it is. Death is coming to all eventually, whether by catastrophe, accident, disease or old-age.

So.. the answer to does God bring "natural catastrophes" upon us is NO, not usually .. we are responsible for the vast majority of catastrophes .. the environmental balance in the world is being seriously challenged by mankind's endeavours .. they LOVE wealth, so much so that they have mass wars and greedily use up the world's resources at an unsustainable pace, causing man-made catastrophes! Sad
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04-19-2011, 06:57 AM
Post: #6
RE: Did God cause the Tsunami?
(04-19-2011 05:56 AM)isa_muhammad Wrote:  Now just a moment..
When a nation becomes wealthy and everybody's busy enjoying themselves spending their money, does anybody accuse God of giving them that wealth?
That wealth is a test for them, and many nations become away from the rememberance of God when "the going get's good"..

exactly, religion is the opium of the people.
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04-19-2011, 07:30 AM
Post: #7
RE: Did God cause the Tsunami?
Or, "why is there suffering?"

That's the way the world works. It seems silly to me to call the tsunami (or earthquakes or anything) "evil" because they're natural disasters, that's the way the ocean and tectonic plates work. There's moral position on that any more than you can be moral about rain, so it's silly to call it "evil" or even "suffering" - it'd happen whether people were there or not. God made the world like that.
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04-19-2011, 08:44 AM
Post: #8
RE: Did God cause the Tsunami?
(04-19-2011 05:56 AM)isa_muhammad Wrote:  Now just a moment..
When a nation becomes wealthy and everybody's busy enjoying themselves spending their money, does anybody accuse God of giving them that wealth?
That wealth is a test for them, and many nations become away from the rememberance of God when "the going get's good"..

God Bless America, you might be on to something....... Praise

You never hear someone who wins a sporting event, thanking god for giving them the talent, or lottery winners thanking God for winning. No, no one ever accuses God of giving them wealth, except the people that thank God for giving them wealth.

Its is like watching Awards shows, where everyone thanks god for their talent, and so on. The talent that usually makes them rich. No, no one ever accuses God of such things. Cool



(04-19-2011 05:56 AM)isa_muhammad Wrote:  When a nation becomes impoverished or some catastrophe occurs, then human beings complain, trying to find somebody to blame. What they don't seem to realise, is that 9 times out of 10, they have THEMSELVES to blame!

Thats right, because Humans control the weather, and the magma, and we can make volcanoes erupt, and hurricanes form, and cause the tectonic plates to shift. Just like those dinosaurs summoned that Meteor that destroyed them. I guess they just all took a deep breath at the same time? Time to bring it back to reality there isa. Those catastrophic events have been happening since before mankind. The only difference being, that mankind was not there to suffer. Now, we are just realizing at these times, that we are at the mercy of our planet. No God involved. No angry mad, sentient Earth, just things that have been happening before we got here, while we are here, and long after we are gone.



(04-19-2011 05:56 AM)isa_muhammad Wrote:  If mankind decides to send bombers to destroy a city, it would be possible for God to make the bombs fail to explode, but usually, He doesn't interfere with our lives, and has given us the responsibility of shunning evil.
We haven't proved ourselves very worthy of this, yet among mankind there are pious, sincere, peace-loving people.

I understand how mankind can send bombers, but back to what is above, how does man send a Tsunami? Who is it that has that weapon? How was that weapon able to be used before mankind was walking the earth? I would not say that God does not usually interfere with our lives, because in order to interfere, he would have to exist. Shunning evil, well, since evil is suggestive, I think this will always be a problem.

(04-19-2011 05:56 AM)isa_muhammad Wrote:  If everytime a serious car/plane accident was to occur, He rewrote the laws of physics, then this world wouldn't be the world it is. Death is coming to all eventually, whether by catastrophe, accident, disease or old-age.

I am noticing a pattern here. First, claim that all disasters are our own fault, with Tsunamis being the disaster in question, then use bombs, car accident, and plane crashes, to show proof, without actually talking about natural disasters, that man has no control over. Then bring it back to all disasters without examples that actually show relevance to the others. Good luck with that. Disease, is that our fault too? I am sure I already know your answer.



(04-19-2011 05:56 AM)isa_muhammad Wrote:  So.. the answer to does God bring "natural catastrophes" upon us is NO, not usually .. we are responsible for the vast majority of catastrophes .. the environmental balance in the world is being seriously challenged by mankind's endeavours .. they LOVE wealth, so much so that they have mass wars and greedily use up the world's resources at an unsustainable pace, causing man-made catastrophes! Sad

I asked this once before, and I do not think you answered it. Can you tell me what mankind must have done to cause the great Earthquake on Jupiter? Plus, can you explain since you are claiming that natural disasters our the work of men, why they happened before man, and will continue to happen after men, and of course, back to why they happen on other planets?


I think it is best summed up, to say, there are some things that happen here on earth, that we cause ourselves. A nuclear power plant meltdowns, and radiation kills. That is our fault. A plane crashes, our fault. A car accident, our fault. A bomb explodes, our fault. A Tsunami hits a population, sure, our fault for having civilization there. However, there are some differences here. The power plant, the plane, the car, are all things that we made. A Tsunami, is not something we made. To say that we cause the Tsunamis ourselves, is just silly.

If everyone was thinking the same thing, then no one would be thinking at all.
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04-19-2011, 10:45 AM
Post: #9
RE: Did God cause the Tsunami?
Our world, like everything else exists between two forces negative and positive, a pulling and a pushing force like magnets, North and South,Bio and Yefet
if these forces are in balance, then everything falls into place and is what Torah calls peace.
Our world lacks the Light, or the positive force in order to balance the negative force. We are what draws this light or force of what some call God, or Surrounding Light. the superior lowers down its bottom part to us, called AHP or Awzen, Hotem, Peh, If we don’t draw it the negative controls the positive
Everything that exists all of nature that surrounds us, is a copy of our internality,we have to draw the Surrounding Light that will create the proper relationship between all the parts of nature. By not drawing it closer to our world we cause harm to the whole world
By study of Torah, Zohar, Tanya and Talmud a kabbalist draws the surrounding light and begins to feel these forces,I truly wish everyone could feel them ,He dosent need the words or knowledge the light does that,but by study he draws it to himself and the world, He may never be able to tell you what it is or even what he feels,words sometimes are not enough I don’t think anyone could explain it including Adam or Abraham but he defiantly feels them. So he tells storys about Gardens and Arks and seas separating,storys of kings and battles things in his world so that others may try and understand,it is the most natural desire in the world to want to share these feelings but sometimes he just cant
To me all the rest is window dressing, Religions, Goverments everything, the only thing that counts is the light, Nothing will help mankind or the world until he draws the Light a little each day
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04-19-2011, 01:06 PM
Post: #10
RE: Did God cause the Tsunami?
(04-19-2011 10:45 AM)Yefet Wrote:  Our world lacks the Light, or the positive force in order to balance the negative force.

So by this logic, if we was to built a civilization on a fault line, next to a volcano, in hurricane country... at the foothill of an avalanche prone mountain. But if they followed the "Light", there is exactly a zero percent chance that any natural disaster will occur?

Can any civilization that is completely pious violate the laws of nature? So are the earthquake in Haiti and AIDS are all a result of living without the "Light"?

What happens if you follow the wrong set of pious beliefs. Which if Judaism is the only right religion but you practice Hinduism. Does that mitigate some disasters or make Elohim even more angry and double the magnitude of the earthquake? What if Brahmin in the correct God? Does he hit the followers of Elohim extra hard?

What about 4 year old children? It is worse for them. How is it their fault, and why should they get punished for an entire lifetime. Were they Hilter in their last life or is God a jerk?
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