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Difference between Heaven and Reincarnation
09-15-2017, 02:58 PM
Post: #1
Difference between Heaven and Reincarnation
I have given up a little on writing down my thoughts - i find most people just skim now - few people take the time to read and digest before replying. So i thought a cartoon might do a better job - it is in the testing phase right now :-)
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09-18-2017, 09:49 AM
Post: #2
RE: Difference between Heaven and Reincarnation
Are you by chance equating being in the womb as 'heaven' and real life as being 'reincarnated' into the real world.

That while still in the womb a certain kind of life can be anticipated and then 'we' get turned into Real life

Or that Heaven is but a fantasy and that the Real Life is characterized by those other characteristics.

Another view is that real life is a combo of both of those pictures.

Real life is what we're experiencing right now and heaven is yet to Be experienced. Life is made up of the choices that each individual person makes combined with the individual choices of everyone around them. Each person can be as selfish or caring as they choose to be.
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09-18-2017, 10:05 AM (This post was last modified: 09-18-2017 10:06 AM by IMtM.)
Post: #3
RE: Difference between Heaven and Reincarnation
(09-15-2017 02:58 PM)RamaRaksha Wrote:  I have given up a little on writing down my thoughts - i find most people just skim now - few people take the time to read and digest before replying.
What you wrote about Heaven I don't care, but every adjective that is written in the Heaven bubble, with the exception of "saved"...possibly, can be used to describe every single one of your ideas listed under Reincarnation. For example, reincarnation is "real life" how? The whole idea of what you are defining reincarnation as in your cartoon seems like "joy and happiness, fantasy" to me.

[edit]
No, "saved" is no exception because the word "savior" checks into the roster on the Reincarnation side...

..
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09-19-2017, 12:23 AM
Post: #4
RE: Difference between Heaven and Reincarnation
If there is an incarnation, there can also be reincarnation. This is only possible if you go to Heaven when you die. A lot of lower level angels who were not important choose to do this. It is also an attempt to improve your status in Heaven throughout eternity. There are seven important people who have been reincarnated and they are the adopted children of God. Psalm 45:16. "Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth". They are Elijah (the Prophet), Gabrielle and Michael (the Arch Angels), David (the King), Deborah (the Judge), and on the side of the enemy, Adam (Satan), and Jesus (Lucifer). The latter two were kicked out of Heaven. Each has a role to play in the end times.
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Yesterday, 04:34 PM (This post was last modified: Yesterday 04:51 PM by RamaRaksha.)
Post: #5
RE: Difference between Heaven and Reincarnation
(09-18-2017 09:49 AM)Sue D. Wrote:  Are you by chance equating being in the womb as 'heaven' and real life as being 'reincarnated' into the real world.
That while still in the womb a certain kind of life can be anticipated and then 'we' get turned into Real life
Or that Heaven is but a fantasy and that the Real Life is characterized by those other characteristics.
Another view is that real life is a combo of both of those pictures.
Real life is what we're experiencing right now and heaven is yet to Be experienced. Life is made up of the choices that each individual person makes combined with the individual choices of everyone around them. Each person can be as selfish or caring as they choose to be.

Sorry for the late reply

Yes heaven is a fantasy - a magic being takes you in and lets you sit in cozy comfort for eternity? Free food and drinks on him? Sit back and enjoy the easy good life? Of course it is a fantasy

It is also a metaphor for the womb - in the womb we were at peace, content, without a care in the world, sheltered, protected - we lived in a bubble. Then suddenly we got cast out of this heaven. we find ourselves naked and we cover up, we face pain for the first time and we start crying
And that is where Reincarnation comes in - we start life with pain, that is how we know life starts - that is what Reincarnation offers - pain and Suffering

Hinduism is probably the only faith to offer pain and suffering - people reject it and reincarnation, not realizing what is being offered - Life! And they end up rejecting Life, Real life, that is

2nd time that this is made clear is when we move out of the home - the 2nd image. The kid is smiling but it is also the first time he will be facing life on his own, no more father and mother coming to his rescue, doing everything for him. He is stepping out of the bubble(Heaven) and tasting life on his own(Reincarnation) and for sure there will be pain


(09-19-2017 12:23 AM)susanblange Wrote:  If there is an incarnation, there can also be reincarnation. This is only possible if you go to Heaven when you die. A lot of lower level angels who were not important choose to do this. It is also an attempt to improve your status in Heaven throughout eternity. There are seven important people who have been reincarnated and they are the adopted children of God. Psalm 45:16. "Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth". They are Elijah (the Prophet), Gabrielle and Michael (the Arch Angels), David (the King), Deborah (the Judge), and on the side of the enemy, Adam (Satan), and Jesus (Lucifer). The latter two were kicked out of Heaven. Each has a role to play in the end times.

I am Hindu - Heaven and Hell are right here on earth - there is nothing in the sky, no magic land, nothing. See my earlier post - My answer to Steve jobs coming back as a Chinese worker hahaha cartoon


(09-18-2017 10:05 AM)IMtM Wrote:  
(09-15-2017 02:58 PM)RamaRaksha Wrote:  I have given up a little on writing down my thoughts - i find most people just skim now - few people take the time to read and digest before replying.
What you wrote about Heaven I don't care, but every adjective that is written in the Heaven bubble, with the exception of "saved"...possibly, can be used to describe every single one of your ideas listed under Reincarnation. For example, reincarnation is "real life" how? The whole idea of what you are defining reincarnation as in your cartoon seems like "joy and happiness, fantasy" to me.
[edit]
No, "saved" is no exception because the word "savior" checks into the roster on the Reincarnation side...
Reincarnation means you get to be reborn down here on earth - that is the real life. As for joy and happiness - did you miss the "pain and Suffering"?

I am contrasting the two sides - totally different worlds. The saved person is looking for a way OUT of pain and suffering, whereas the Savior looks for a way IN.
So, a drowning person screams for help - a way out of pain and suffering and the person who jumps in trying to save him, knows that there is the danger that he might get sucked in and be killed, yet jumps in anyway

That is Reincarnation - a way IN to pain and suffering.

Hinduism may probably be the only faith to offer this
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Yesterday, 07:25 PM
Post: #6
RE: Difference between Heaven and Reincarnation
@Rama: I had a vision of my own death 34 years ago, and there are actual places called "Heaven" and "Hell". My experience was just like near death experience. My God is the living God of Israel and he is present on earth today. He has already ended two wars, the Cold War and the war in Ireland between the Protestants and Catholics. My God is the creator. He created the earth for mankind, he created mankind because he was lonely, and he created Israel for his glory. His overall purpose is to be King of the Universe and he will reign from Jerusalem, and live in the rebuilt Temple forever. His kingdom will be characterized by righteousness, justice, and peace.
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Yesterday, 08:36 PM
Post: #7
RE: Difference between Heaven and Reincarnation
(Yesterday 07:25 PM)susanblange Wrote:  @Rama: I had a vision of my own death 34 years ago, and there are actual places called "Heaven" and "Hell". My experience was just like near death experience. My God is the living God of Israel and he is present on earth today. He has already ended two wars, the Cold War and the war in Ireland between the Protestants and Catholics. My God is the creator. He created the earth for mankind, he created mankind because he was lonely, and he created Israel for his glory. His overall purpose is to be King of the Universe and he will reign from Jerusalem, and live in the rebuilt Temple forever. His kingdom will be characterized by righteousness, justice, and peace.
Life is harsh, difficult and it is natural for wanting to run away to a land of peace and happiness. Your words show that Christianity was born when Kings ruled and they made God in his image - a King-like God ruling the heavens, rewarding obedience and loyalty and punishing the rest, just like Kings did on earth

Please see my earlier post - about my answer to Steve Jobs Cartoon. Hinduism says those who run away end up as lower life forms - you will get your peace and joy but as a lower life form - a cat or a dog - your owner will take good care of you

You must find the strength to keep going, to not quit, to keep fighting. God created his universe for us, it is here we must live. God has said parents will take care of you for only a while, then one must go earn a living, stand on our own two feet. Face the world with all its problems

It is tempting to run away and religions make it very tempting by making all kinds of nice promises - please don't give in to them. There are no retirement homes in the sky
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Yesterday, 09:54 PM
Post: #8
RE: Difference between Heaven and Reincarnation
(Yesterday 08:36 PM)RamaRaksha Wrote:  
(Yesterday 07:25 PM)susanblange Wrote:  @Rama: I had a vision of my own death 34 years ago, and there are actual places called "Heaven" and "Hell". My experience was just like near death experience. My God is the living God of Israel and he is present on earth today. He has already ended two wars, the Cold War and the war in Ireland between the Protestants and Catholics. My God is the creator. He created the earth for mankind, he created mankind because he was lonely, and he created Israel for his glory. His overall purpose is to be King of the Universe and he will reign from Jerusalem, and live in the rebuilt Temple forever. His kingdom will be characterized by righteousness, justice, and peace.
Life is harsh, difficult and it is natural for wanting to run away to a land of peace and happiness. Your words show that Christianity was born when Kings ruled and they made God in his image - a King-like God ruling the heavens, rewarding obedience and loyalty and punishing the rest, just like Kings did on earth

Please see my earlier post - about my answer to Steve Jobs Cartoon. Hinduism says those who run away end up as lower life forms - you will get your peace and joy but as a lower life form - a cat or a dog - your owner will take good care of you

You must find the strength to keep going, to not quit, to keep fighting. God created his universe for us, it is here we must live. God has said parents will take care of you for only a while, then one must go earn a living, stand on our own two feet. Face the world with all its problems

It is tempting to run away and religions make it very tempting by making all kinds of nice promises - please don't give in to them. There are no retirement homes in the sky

I am not a Christian, Rama, and I totally reject the New Testament. The purpose of life is life itself. It is God's purpose and intent for all of us to transcend this physical, earthly existence, enter Heaven when we die, and live forever with God. If there is no Heaven, then there is no God. I do and forever will believe in God. I have seen hundreds of Old Testament prophecies literally fulfilled. Humans can only reincarnate as other humans, not as other life forms. The human spirit remains constant. Angels will inherit the earth together with God at the time of the resurrection. Right now it doesn't matter what your religious beliefs are. God does not view the world as male/female, black/white, Jew/Gentile. God views the world as wicked/righteous and both of those come in all races, creeds, and colors. Only the righteous of all faiths will enter Heaven. It's called Karma.
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Today, 10:37 AM
Post: #9
RE: Difference between Heaven and Reincarnation
(Yesterday 09:54 PM)susanblange Wrote:  I am not a Christian, Rama, and I totally reject the New Testament. The purpose of life is life itself. It is God's purpose and intent for all of us to transcend this physical, earthly existence, enter Heaven when we die, and live forever with God. If there is no Heaven, then there is no God. I do and forever will believe in God. I have seen hundreds of Old Testament prophecies literally fulfilled. Humans can only reincarnate as other humans, not as other life forms. The human spirit remains constant. Angels will inherit the earth together with God at the time of the resurrection. Right now it doesn't matter what your religious beliefs are. God does not view the world as male/female, black/white, Jew/Gentile. God views the world as wicked/righteous and both of those come in all races, creeds, and colors. Only the righteous of all faiths will enter Heaven. It's called Karma.
I am sorry but it seems a bit self-serving - that we spend life on earth for a while and then a nice retirement home for eternity? You say you will live with God forever. What is your image of God? Some king-like person sitting on his throne? You praise him for a while and then go do what? Just a nice relaxed retired existence?

What about kids who die as babies and children? What was the point of them being born?

What about your loved ones down on earth? What if they fall on hard times? Your grandson gets lost in the forest, is starving to death crying & you will be enjoying life in Heaven? So one stops caring in heaven?

You throw around the words righteous and wicked - who are they? Did you know the US supported Saddam before he became our enemy? That Iran had a democracy at one point before we got involved, killed their leader and installed the Shah on them? Do you ever think of animals? Locked in cages leading a hellish life, what do you think they think of us if they got to speak? Did you know that the chicken industry has no use for male chicks, they take these day-old babies & dump them in the shredder? To be cut to pieces! ALIVE!
Take fishing - how would you like to have a hook jammed thru your jaw and you get yanked around? They say it is loads of fun, do you think it is fun for the fish?

As for Karma - no ma'am you got it wrong. That's not Karma. There is no magic in Karma - no magic lands in the sky - we Hindus don't believe in magic lands in the sky. Reincarnation teaches us that THIS IS IT! God made this world for us & it is here that we live. Religions came up with fake magical lands in the sky because they saw an opportunity, but you can't live in dreamland.
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