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Divine Intervention
05-08-2012, 10:09 PM
Post: #1
Divine Intervention
I would post this in the Polytheism forum, but the General Religion section seems to see more traffic.

My views on divine intervention are somewhat changing, it seems. Previously, I believed the Gods to - more or less - not intervene in our lives, and that it was up to us to fight through our problems. I believed the Gods to govern the Laws of Nature, tending to our realities, but that it was up to us to survive in that reality.

Recently, a girl who is - was - very close to me suffered an accident. I don't know many of the details, but as a result she suffered near total amnesia. Needless to say, this has thrown me into a very emotionally tumultuous "funk." Very slowly her memories have been returning, and recently she recovered a memory of when she discovered Paganism (Lunar Worship) as her religion. After this memory returned, she performed a ritual worship during the "Super Moon."

The next day she went to a book store, just shopping around for books on Paganism. She ended up buying a book on aromatherapy and herbal oils. The odd thing is that there was a page bookmarked by a small paperclip that very specifically discussed some problems that she's had, and gave methods to help alleviate those problems. She had never seen, read or handled this book before her purchase, as it was brand-new.

Anyways, I just felt like sharing that. Any thoughts on it?

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05-09-2012, 06:43 AM
Post: #2
RE: Divine Intervention
Coincidences happen all the time. Given the sheer amount of stuff we experience or talk about in a lifetime there are plenty of opportunities for coincidences to happen. Any given coincidence occurring at a given time is statistically improbable, but the probability of undefined coincidences happening through our lives is statistically probable. When they do happen, it is all too easy to conclude that some form of providence was involved.

There may have been a whole section of books containing information about her condition and only one of them had a paperclip in, which may have influenced her decision about which one to buy. It may be that the paperclip wasn't in the exact page of relevance, but came pretty close - people have a habit of slightly refining details to make stories more remarkable - often not on a concious level. In magic, half of the work is done after the trick has been performed since people want to believe that they were fooled by something incredible.

Also, given her current issues, is it possible that she put the paperclip there herself and forgot about it?

In any case, I am sceptical about whether the aromatherapy book will be at all useful in dealing with her condition. I haven't looked into studies of the effects of aromatherapy and it is sounds quite plausible that it could have some benefits in some areas, but I suspect that quite a few of the books on the subject have been put together by hippies and are based purely on anecdotal evidence.
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05-09-2012, 06:49 AM
Post: #3
RE: Divine Intervention
I was pretty skeptical too, but I don't know it just keeps nagging at me. The bookstore is a good distance from where she lives. Really, it'd be too far to visit daily for her. The book she bought was new, and she hasn't been to the store since the accident. If it is coincidence, it's one hell of a coincidence.

For clarification, though, the page marked was for a different problem, thougn one that she knows to exist through my help and her journals. It wasn't relative to the amnesia.

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05-09-2012, 06:58 AM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2012 07:34 AM by Elgonzero.)
Post: #4
RE: Divine Intervention
So are you suggesting that the very fact that she went to the book store could have been part of a divine instruction? Was it just a whim to go there?

It seems like a strange way for the gods to intervene, though I am not quite sure what sort of intervention wouldn't seem strange to me.

The fact that she had more than one problem at least doubles the probability of the paperclip being in the right place for one of them.

By the way, I like the new signature Smile
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05-09-2012, 07:09 AM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2012 07:09 AM by URAVIP2ME.)
Post: #5
RE: Divine Intervention
RE: Jesus promised to remove all wicked people.....Odin promised to remove all jotunn. I don't see any jotunn walking around.

That sounds as if you have noticed wicked people walking around. [2nd Timothy 3 vs 1-5. 13]

Sound as if Odin did not leave much time for the jotunn to repent or.........
Could he have acted too soon ?

By the 'end of all the wicked' not coming sooner has allowed the maximum amount of time for the maximum amount of people to repent rather than perish or be destroyed.

-2nd Peter 3 v 9.
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05-09-2012, 07:29 AM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2012 08:13 AM by Elgonzero.)
Post: #6
RE: Divine Intervention
Thinking about this from a slightly different angle. Just for a moment, lets assume that a person put the paperclip in the book for some unspecified reason (I'm sure we could both come up with a few credible possibilities). We could actually say that the paperclip itself was relatively unimportant, as it could equally have been a slip of paper, a bookmark, a turned page corner or something else. Whatever it was wouldn't really change the impact of the story. It doesn't seem too far out of the realms of possibility that some books in a book store could contain one of these things.

The paperclip could have slightly marked or creased the page, or could at least serve as a sign that somebody else has already looked through the book. As it is a shop that sells new books, people who wanted the book are therefore more likely to select another, pristine copy from the same shelf. The copy with the paperclip could therefore have been there for quite some time. In this situation it is perhaps inevitable that somebody with the condition outlined on the page in question would eventually find it and it is one of these people who is more likely to buy the book.

I realise that the above explanation involves a certain amount of speculation but it does seem to reduce the magnitude of improbability when looking at it as a potential coincidence.
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05-09-2012, 11:54 AM
Post: #7
RE: Divine Intervention
Underrated album. Their best after SITA.
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05-09-2012, 02:30 PM
Post: #8
RE: Divine Intervention
(05-09-2012 06:58 AM)Elgonzero Wrote:  So are you suggesting that the very fact that she went to the book store could have been part of a divine instruction? Was it just a whim to go there?

It certainly seems that way. It's likely a coincidence, but the event as it seems has caused me to rethink the nature of Divine Intervention. She prayed to her Goddess, I can only assume for aid recovering her life, and then up pops a book that has helped to heal what we think caused this whole accident.


Quote:The fact that she had more than one problem at least doubles the probability of the paperclip being in the right place for one of them.

Oh, what the hell... The problem that she had that was addressed by the book's page was miscarriages and infertility, more specifically the overwhelming stress brought on by those issues. Our best guess is that the stress from that caused her to "snap" and for her mind to effectively shut down, causing self-inflicted amnesia. Whatever she read in that book, it's helped her to handle that stress from that.

Quote:By the way, I like the new signature Smile

Lol, thanks. I thought it was pretty hilarious. But apparently some people can't take a joke...

(05-09-2012 07:09 AM)URAVIP2ME Wrote:  RE: Jesus promised to remove all wicked people.....Odin promised to remove all jotunn. I don't see any jotunn walking around.

Point in case.

Quote:That sounds as if you have noticed wicked people walking around.

[Image: +_2acc5a8841f8752904d37f90a8014829.png?1322693145]

Quote:Sound as if Odin did not leave much time for the jotunn to repent or.........
Could he have acted too soon ?

Do you know what the jötnar are, Ravi? They are Norse figures; Giants. Often they wage war with the Aesir and Vanir, and also troubled mankind on Midgard. At the Ragnarök the Múspellsmegir - or fire jötnar - would attack the Gods with forces from Jötunheimir and Hel, waging a war that would cover Midgard in flames. There was no "repentance" for them, as they did not feel sorry for their actions or have any notions of "sin." That's a Christian notion that you're trying to inject into a faith that is not Christian. Don't do that.

Quote:By the 'end of all the wicked' not coming sooner has allowed the maximum amount of time for the maximum amount of people to repent rather than perish or be destroyed.

First, it was a joke that sailed right over your head. Secondly, by your Jesus' "return" being longer than stated originally, it's only allowed the world to further "go to hell." Look around you. No one's repenting, no one is sorry for the way they are. Hell, we live in a world where it's "okay" to be morbidly obese with the mentality that "you're beautiful just the way you are." Your holdout for hope is a romantic notion but nothing more, serving only to save some ill-placed faith in a humanity that doesn't want to be saved.

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05-09-2012, 04:53 PM
Post: #9
RE: Divine Intervention
(05-09-2012 02:30 PM)Satyros Wrote:  Oh, what the hell...

Sorry, I didn't mean for you to feel pressured into going into the nature of her problems. I am glad that she seems to have found something that seems to help her to cope with it.
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05-09-2012, 04:55 PM
Post: #10
RE: Divine Intervention
No, it's no trouble. It helps to give perspective on the nature of my thinking, as well as the full scope of her situation. And yes, divine intervention or no it's helping, and I'm thankful for that at least.

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