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Do "Babies/Children" go to Hell
01-20-2010, 03:42 AM
Post: #1
Do "Babies/Children" go to Hell
I have questions for the theists, well really for all.
Do babies and children go to Hell if they haven't accepted Jesus ?
Do all people who have no knowledge of and therefore no acceptance of Jesus go to Hell?
If Abraham, David, Moses et al are in heaven, how did they get there? it could not have been through Jesus. The only way there.
Why would a God who created all men sentence 99% of his creation to ETERNAL suffering.

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01-20-2010, 04:53 AM
Post: #2
RE: Do "Babies/Children" go to Hell
(01-20-2010 03:42 AM)minus459 Wrote:  I have questions for the theists, well really for all.
Do babies and children go to Hell if they haven't accepted Jesus ?
Do all people who have no knowledge of and therefore no acceptance of Jesus go to Hell?
If Abraham, David, Moses et al are in heaven, how did they get there? it could not have been through Jesus. The only way there.
Why would a God who created all men sentence 99% of his creation to ETERNAL suffering.

trythat.......havefun

You're questions don't really apply to non-Christian theists...

But! Cradle Catholic talking -- that's what purgatory is for.

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01-20-2010, 05:16 AM (This post was last modified: 01-20-2010 05:19 AM by minus459.)
Post: #3
RE: Do "Babies/Children" go to Hell
Clementine you are almost certainly correct, having seen your vast knowledge of history and my very limited knowledge of other religions, I accept your rebuke.
But as a Cradle Catholic (love the term) I think I read recently that pergatory and limbo have been given the flick by the micks. lol

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purgatory oops
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01-20-2010, 05:25 AM
Post: #4
RE: Do "Babies/Children" go to Hell
(01-20-2010 05:16 AM)minus459 Wrote:  Clementine you are almost certainly correct, having seen your vast knowledge of history and my very limited knowledge of other religions, I accept your rebuke.
But as a Cradle Catholic (love the term) I think I read recently that pergatory and limbo have been given the flick by the micks. lol

trythat....havefun

Well, I'm a historian, knowledge of history is kind of my job.

And, not wanting to mis-represent Catholicism, I'm going to quote directly from the Catechism.

Quote: 1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.604 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.608 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.

It's still in there.

Basically, babies (and stillborns and miscarriages and abortions since the church flip-flopped on when a human is ensouled AGAIN) are tainted with original sin, however, having not comitted any sins of their own, cannot go to hell and cannot get into heaven without being "perfectly purified."

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01-20-2010, 05:37 AM (This post was last modified: 01-20-2010 05:42 AM by minus459.)
Post: #5
RE: Do "Babies/Children" go to Hell
Now we are coming close to the very serious problem that christianity has with hypocrisy. I'm sorry if (and it probably has) this topic has been belted to death on this forum. But the reason I started the thread was for Christian theists (not cradle catholics) although they are more than welcome, as u are (I've enjoyed reading your posts, on various topics) but to in essence understand why christians believe that the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Then have all sorts of getout clauses that can be brought up at the drop of a theoligical hat.

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Sorry Clementine but the part about perfectly purified ie purgatory and limbo are no longer part of the catholic doctrine, and have never been part of evangelical doctrine, as far as I know. I stand to be corrected on both points
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01-20-2010, 05:45 AM
Post: #6
RE: Do "Babies/Children" go to Hell
(01-20-2010 05:37 AM)minus459 Wrote:  Now we are coming close to the very serious problem that christianity has with hypocrisy. I'm sorry if (and it probably has) this topic has been belted to death on this forum. But the reason I started the thread was for Christian theists (not cradle catholics) although they are more than welcome, as u are (I've enjoyed reading your posts, on various topics) but to in essence understand why christians believe that the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Then have all sorts of getout clauses that can be brought up at the drop of a theoligical hat.

trythat.....havefun

Do you want me to try and explain?

It has to do with the doctrine of original sin. No one can get into heaven alone, not by righteous acts or anything else (although in Catholicism, this makes things better for you in the long run) the only way to be pre enough to go to heaven is through Jesus, who has no original sin, because he was not conceived by man.

So, had he just lived his life and died normally, only he, of those who came after him, could get to heaven but through his sacrifice on Good Friday, all are able to enter. (Mostly. Doctrine varies sometimes...)

Make sense at all?

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01-20-2010, 06:25 AM
Post: #7
RE: Do "Babies/Children" go to Hell
of course not. If man is born with original sin then man needs to be saved. Saved by the acceptance of Jesus, if a baby is aborted, stillborn, early mortality then that baby cannot have accepted Jesus and therefore must go to Hell. The acceptance of Jesus is not negotiable as I read their books. But that would be incompatible with human emotional connection with their babies, so they then bring up exceptions to allow babies to go to heaven (innocent babies). The evangelicals explain it by saying that the child has not reached the age of reason (knowing right from wrong). There is no mention of that in the bible, but we're allowed to make it up SOMETIMES, seems to be the philosophy.

So you and I discussing this point is counterproductive, though fascinating, probably should have asked the question of christians. But please don't leave the conversation because of that last sentence.

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01-20-2010, 06:35 AM
Post: #8
RE: Do "Babies/Children" go to Hell
(01-20-2010 06:25 AM)minus459 Wrote:  of course not. If man is born with original sin then man needs to be saved. Saved by the acceptance of Jesus, if a baby is aborted, stillborn, early mortality then that baby cannot have accepted Jesus and therefore must go to Hell. The acceptance of Jesus is not negotiable as I read their books. But that would be incompatible with human emotional connection with their babies, so they then bring up exceptions to allow babies to go to heaven (innocent babies). The evangelicals explain it by saying that the child has not reached the age of reason (knowing right from wrong). There is no mention of that in the bible, but we're allowed to make it up SOMETIMES, seems to be the philosophy.

So you and I discussing this point is counterproductive, though fascinating, probably should have asked the question of christians. But please don't leave the conversation because of that last sentence.

trythat.........havefun

Actually, I do know a protestant who believes that children/babies go to hell.

However, the question about those before Jesus is a little moot as well, because most Christians believe that that's what the Jewish sacrifices were for.

(Which can cause some interesting conversations with Jews, since so much of it contradicts...well, Judaism.)

And then, of course, you get the baptism by proxy/christening/baptism only when saved conversation going.

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01-20-2010, 07:29 AM (This post was last modified: 01-20-2010 07:30 AM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #9
RE: Do "Babies/Children" go to Hell
No children go to hell and they are not in limbo either.

All children are born innocent. According to the principles of genetics, even if there were such a thing as Original Sin, it cannot be transmiited to the off spring. Ask anyone who has read any biology!

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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01-20-2010, 07:33 AM
Post: #10
RE: Do "Babies/Children" go to Hell
(01-20-2010 07:29 AM)Ahmadi Wrote:  No children go to hell and they are not in limbo either.

All children are born innocent. According to the principles of genetics, even if there were such a thing as Original Sin, it cannot be transmiited to the off spring. Ask anyone who has read any biology!

thankyou Ahmadi but sin is not a biological concept

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