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Does God exist?
05-22-2011, 02:57 PM
Post: #1
Does God exist?
Many people don’t know if God exists. They don't know if a higher power exists. So how do we know that there is a God? How do we know that there is a creator? Let me share a story with you.

One day two friends went fishing with a little boat. One of them was an atheist (non-believer) and the other was a believer (he believed in God). As they were fishing they had a conversation with eachother.

The Atheist: Why do you believe in God? We can’t see God. The Universe was created by itself.

The Believer: Let me ask you a question. Is the boat we are sitting in created by itself?

The Atheist: No, off course not. It is a skillful carpenter who has made the boat.

The Believer: So you agree that this boat is not created by itself?

The Atheist: Yes, I agree.

The Believer:
When such a little thing as a boat can’t be created by itself, then how can the enormous Universe and our huge planet be created by itself?

The Atheist: I don’t know.

The Believer: Now you know why I believe in God.

Many people claim that God doesn’t exist because we can’t see God. You can’t see heat or cold neither, but it does’nt mean that heat and cold don’t exist. You can’t see heat or cold, but you can feel it. You can’t see God, but you can feel God’s presence. You can’t see aliens neither, but it doesn’t mean that aliens don’t exist. So even dough you can’t see something, it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. And since you can feel God’s presence, this is a sign that God exists. If God has answered your prayers, that’s another sign that God exists. The creation of the Universe, the sun, the moon, the stars, the planets, the earth, and the nature is a proof that a higher power exists. In addition to these things, thelogians, philosophers and scientists has proved that God exists.
Allah has created the Universe, and is the higher power that maintains it. The universe is not created by itself. The Universe is not created by chance. Not even a little pencil can be created by chance. So when not even a pencil can be created by itself, then how can the enormous, harmonious, symmetrical, mathematical and scientific Universe be created by itself? When not even a little pencil can be created by itself, then how can the advanced and complex human body be created by itself? Did you know that the human brain is more than 40 000 times more advanced then the most advanced computer that exists in the world today? Think about. When a flower grows, who makes the flower grow? Human beings don’t make the flower grow. Human beings can never make a flower grow. If a flower is going to grow, it needs energy from the outside. Energy that makes it grow. It is higher power that makes the flower grow. And that higher power is God the Almighty, the All-knowing. God is the one who created the Universe. And God is the one who maintains it.

Many people claim that the existence of God, is not compatible with science and rationality. If the existence of God is not compatible with science, then why is the existence of God proven by science? If the existence of God is not compatible wih rationality, then why is the existence of God proven by reason? If the existence of God is not compatible with science or rationality, then why did some of the greatest scientists and philosophers believe in God? Albert Einstein, Nicolas Copernicus, Sir Francis Bacon, Galileo Galilei, Isaac Newton, Leonardo Davinci, Louis Pasteur and Rene Descartes were scientists who believed in God. Aristoteles, Immanuel Kant, Voltaire, Spinoza, were philosphers who believed in God. Some people claim that Socrates also may have believed in God (from the interpretations of the dialogues of Platon). And guess what, some of the greatest human rights activistists also believed in God. Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X and Nelson Mandela were human rights activists who believed in God.

A couple of years a ago, there was a study in the Usa, were they wanted to find out how religious people and non-believers are when it comes to cleanliness. A study were some academics studied the lifestyles of religious people and non-believers. Do you know what they found out? They want out that does who believed in God, were more concerned with cleanliness than does who didn’t believe in God. Those who believed in God, washed their hands more times each day, than those who didn’t believe in God.
Did you know that people who believe in god, and have connection with religion/spirituality, are those who are most happy. And that religion is linked to a happy life. This is confirmed by a study done by Professor Clark and Dr Orsolya Lelkes. Their findings suggested that religion can offer a protection from life’s dissapointments and that religious people had higher levels of satisfaction.

What we found was that religious people were experiencing current day rewards, rather than storing them up for the future
- Professor Andrew Clark, Paris School of Economics.

Did you know that all psychological problems have a religious/spiritual cause? It is lack of belief/spirituality that makes many people depressed and experience other psychological problems. When someone believes this life is created by chance, and don’t know the meaning of life, he/she might easily get psychological problems. Many people who don’t have a belief system based on a religion, get an emptiness in themselves that they fill with alchohol, parties, materialism. They are never content and constantly want more material things, and constantly want to do things that only give them pleasure (not happiness). The famous psychologist Carl Jung, found out that all the psychological problems of his patients, had a religious cause. He had worket as a therapist in many years. And found out that all of his patients, that had psychological problems, had a lack of religious belief/spirituality. There are no man-made ideologies or philosophies that can give people true happiness and inner peace. Only God can answer our prayers. So it is important ask god to guide us. And show us the way. If you ever get stuck, and life seems hard, ask God to show you the way. Pray to God alone. And God can answer your prayers.
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05-22-2011, 06:03 PM
Post: #2
RE: Does God exist?
(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  A couple of years a ago, there was a study in the Usa, were they wanted to find out how religious people and non-believers are when it comes to cleanliness. A study were some academics studied the lifestyles of religious people and non-believers. Do you know what they found out? They want out that does who believed in God, were more concerned with cleanliness than does who didn’t believe in God. Those who believed in God, washed their hands more times each day, than those who didn’t believe in God.
Did you know that people who believe in god, and have connection with religion/spirituality, are those who are most happy. And that religion is linked to a happy life. This is confirmed by a study done by Professor Clark and Dr Orsolya Lelkes. Their findings suggested that religion can offer a protection from life’s dissapointments and that religious people had higher levels of satisfaction.

What we found was that religious people were experiencing current day rewards, rather than storing them up for the future
- Professor Andrew Clark, Paris School of Economics.

Did you know that all psychological problems have a religious/spiritual cause? It is lack of belief/spirituality that makes many people depressed and experience other psychological problems. When someone believes this life is created by chance, and don’t know the meaning of life, he/she might easily get psychological problems. Many people who don’t have a belief system based on a religion, get an emptiness in themselves that they fill with alchohol, parties, materialism. They are never content and constantly want more material things, and constantly want to do things that only give them pleasure (not happiness). The famous psychologist Carl Jung, found out that all the psychological problems of his patients, had a religious cause. He had worket as a therapist in many years. And found out that all of his patients, that had psychological problems, had a lack of religious belief/spirituality. There are no man-made ideologies or philosophies that can give people true happiness and inner peace. Only God can answer our prayers. So it is important ask god to guide us. And show us the way. If you ever get stuck, and life seems hard, ask God to show you the way. Pray to God alone. And God can answer your prayers.

This so full of crap I barely know where to begin.

Religious people are cleaner than non-religious people, come on, seriously. Idiotic.

All psychological problems are caused by lack of religious belief. What a completely repugnant statement. I for one will tell you that my psychological problems are cause by a neurological disorder and the fact that I don't think way that neuro-typicals do.

There are others with far more compelling stories that will rebut your idiocy but I will leave to them if they can be bothered, don't know why I was bothered though.

He who has a why to live for can bear almost any how. - Nietzsche
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05-22-2011, 07:08 PM
Post: #3
RE: Does God exist?
(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  Many people don’t know if God exists. They don't know if a higher power exists. So how do we know that there is a God? How do we know that there is a creator? Let me share a story with you.

I would say all, not some. On to the story.

(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  One day two friends went fishing with a little boat. One of them was an atheist (non-believer) and the other was a believer (he believed in God). As they were fishing they had a conversation with eachother.

The Atheist: Why do you believe in God? We can’t see God. The Universe was created by itself.

The Believer: Let me ask you a question. Is the boat we are sitting in created by itself?

The Atheist: No, off course not. It is a skillful carpenter who has made the boat.

The Believer: So you agree that this boat is not created by itself?

The Atheist: Yes, I agree.

The Believer:
When such a little thing as a boat can’t be created by itself, then how can the enormous Universe and our huge planet be created by itself?

The Atheist: I don’t know.

The Believer: Now you know why I believe in God.

A story that seems to have been created by a believer without actually talking to a non believer. I have had this conversation before, and it comes down to created an made. The boat was not created. It was made. So if we compare the boat to the universe, and say they are to represent one another, then we would be saying since man made the boat, then the universe would have been made, in the thoughts of the believer, God. Man made the boat out of wood, so what did God create the universe out of? Then the believer would say, he did not make it out of anything, he created it out of nothing, thus making the boat, a bad analogy.

(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  Many people claim that God doesn’t exist because we can’t see God. You can’t see heat or cold neither, but it does’nt mean that heat and cold don’t exist. You can’t see heat or cold, but you can feel it. You can’t see God, but you can feel God’s presence.

I do not know anyone that says that God does not exist because we can not see him. There are many things that exist that we can not see. Heat and cold we can feel, but you claim that we can feel God's presense, and I disagree. I have never felt it. Can you explain what it feels like? I would be interested in knowing.


(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  You can’t see aliens neither, but it doesn’t mean that aliens don’t exist.

This is true. However, without evidence of aliens, there is no reason to claim they do exist. The possiblility is out there, being that out of the small portion of the universe that we know of, there could be any number of planets that could sustain the same life, so thinking ours is the only one with it, seems a bit sad. That being said, do you believe in Aliens?


(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  So even dough you can’t see something, it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. And since you can feel God’s presence, this is a sign that God exists.

Refer to above, because I do no believe we feel a presense.

(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  If God has answered your prayers, that’s another sign that God exists.

So would it be fair to say that if he has not, that he does not exist? Or is it that if he does not answer your prayers it was meant for your own benefit? The double standard?


(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  The creation of the Universe, the sun, the moon, the stars, the planets, the earth, and the nature is a proof that a higher power exists.

Unless the matter that it is all made of, always existed. Thus only proving that matter exists, not a creator.


(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  In addition to these things, thelogians, philosophers and scientists has proved that God exists.

When? What was the proof?



(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  Allah has created the Universe, and is the higher power that maintains it. The universe is not created by itself.

Why do you say that? Why is it not possible to be created itself of to have just always existed, but God, can have been created himself, or just have always existed...its a flawed logic.




(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  The Universe is not created by chance. Not even a little pencil can be created by chance. So when not even a pencil can be created by itself, then how can the enormous, harmonious, symmetrical, mathematical and scientific Universe be created by itself?

A pencil is made. Thus made out of something. What is the universe made out of? Plus, it could have been by chance, when the truth is, we have no idea how it came to be, if it was made or created or if it has always just been.


(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  When not even a little pencil can be created by itself, then how can the advanced and complex human body be created by itself?

Was the human body created or made?



(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  Did you know that the human brain is more than 40 000 times more advanced then the most advanced computer that exists in the world today? Think about. When a flower grows, who makes the flower grow?

The sun, water, soil, depending on the flower, threw evolution.




(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  Human beings don’t make the flower grow. Human beings can never make a flower grow.


Seemed to work in my parents garden....


(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  If a flower is going to grow, it needs energy from the outside. Energy that makes it grow. It is higher power that makes the flower grow. And that higher power is God the Almighty, the All-knowing. God is the one who created the Universe. And God is the one who maintains it.

Or it could be the sun that was made from matter in the universe that has always existed, and the sun which will eventually go out. If God created the sun, and we know it will eventually go out, then does is God limited? Or will we hear the excuse of the end of time, due to Gods will to explain his inabilities?

(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  Many people claim that the existence of God, is not compatible with science and rationality. If the existence of God is not compatible with science, then why is the existence of God proven by science?

Source that it has been proven by science?

(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  If the existence of God is not compatible wih rationality, then why is the existence of God proven by reason?

Reason is the source of many that disproves. So which do we listen to?



(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  If the existence of God is not compatible with science or rationality, then why did some of the greatest scientists and philosophers believe in God? Albert Einstein, Nicolas Copernicus, Sir Francis Bacon, Galileo Galilei, Isaac Newton, Leonardo Davinci, Louis Pasteur and Rene Descartes were scientists who believed in God. Aristoteles, Immanuel Kant, Voltaire, Spinoza, were philosphers who believed in God. Some people claim that Socrates also may have believed in God (from the interpretations of the dialogues of Platon). And guess what, some of the greatest human rights activistists also believed in God. Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X and Nelson Mandela were human rights activists who believed in God.

We understand that the belief in something does not mean it exists correct? If I believe that milk comes from the beating of baby dragons heads together, would that make it real? Same thing applies to God. Belief in God, does not make God real....It just makes your belief real to you.

(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  A couple of years a ago, there was a study in the Usa, were they wanted to find out how religious people and non-believers are when it comes to cleanliness. A study were some academics studied the lifestyles of religious people and non-believers. Do you know what they found out? They want out that does who believed in God, were more concerned with cleanliness than does who didn’t believe in God. Those who believed in God, washed their hands more times each day, than those who didn’t believe in God.

Source, and how many years ago is a few? I mean if this is true, then the study makes absolutly no sense. Lets think about it logically. As an Atheist, I personlly do not believe in anything trying to keep me safe, thus, I have to do the best myself. So, it would only make sense for me to wash my hands more often, due to, doing my best to keep myself healthy. Now if you have a person that feels that God will keep them safe, then why would they wash their hands so often? I have to seriously doubt the study, but would be interested in the source anyway.


(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  Did you know that people who believe in god, and have connection with religion/spirituality, are those who are most happy. And that religion is linked to a happy life. This is confirmed by a study done by Professor Clark and Dr Orsolya Lelkes. Their findings suggested that religion can offer a protection from life’s dissapointments and that religious people had higher levels of satisfaction.

Started a long answer to this, but, I will let you re read it and let it sink in the implications. Just something to think about.

(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  Did you know that all psychological problems have a religious/spiritual cause? It is lack of belief/spirituality that makes many people depressed and experience other psychological problems.

This definatly needs a citation, cause that is straight garbage.



(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  When someone believes this life is created by chance, and don’t know the meaning of life, he/she might easily get psychological problems. Many people who don’t have a belief system based on a religion, get an emptiness in themselves that they fill with alchohol, parties, materialism.

As an Atheist, who does not drink, does not party, gives to charity, is in the process of setting up charitable events for others, does not smoke, has only has sex with one woman who is my wife, and so on fits into what you are saying above.....and citation needed.



(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  They are never content and constantly want more material things, and constantly want to do things that only give them pleasure (not happiness). The famous psychologist Carl Jung, found out that all the psychological problems of his patients, had a religious cause. He had worket as a therapist in many years. And found out that all of his patients, that had psychological problems, had a lack of religious belief/spirituality. There are no man-made ideologies or philosophies that can give people true happiness and inner peace. Only God can answer our prayers. So it is important ask god to guide us. And show us the way. If you ever get stuck, and life seems hard, ask God to show you the way. Pray to God alone. And God can answer your prayers.


All in all, carl Jung, is full of [censored], and I am the proof of it. I do not try to gain more material possesions because i do not believe in God. I am happy with a roof over my families head. I do what I can to help others for no reason, other then to help others. If Flipper did not say it already, cause I did not get to read it, this is a bunch of crap.

If everyone was thinking the same thing, then no one would be thinking at all.
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05-23-2011, 02:55 PM
Post: #4
RE: Does God exist?
Quote:Did you know that all psychological problems have a religious/spiritual cause? It is lack of belief/spirituality that makes many people depressed and experience other psychological problems.

OK, Jung did say something like this, but (so far as I'm aware) he didn't say it was necessary to find religion, but a "religious mindset" or something vague like that... any kind of ideology to base your life around would be just as good.

"All psychological problems have a spiritual cause". Wow, sweeping statement or what. According to whom? Care to offer any evidence? (Ever read any Freud?)
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05-23-2011, 04:50 PM
Post: #5
RE: Does God exist?
Is this the same Jung that died in 1961? Could be, that research has proved him wrong.....might want to look into that.....or I might do it...IDK

If everyone was thinking the same thing, then no one would be thinking at all.
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05-24-2011, 12:59 AM
Post: #6
RE: Does God exist?
(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  One day two friends went fishing with a little boat. One of them was an atheist (non-believer) and the other was a believer (he believed in God). As they were fishing they had a conversation with eachother.

The Atheist: Why do you believe in God? We can’t see God. The Universe was created by itself.

The Believer: Let me ask you a question. Is the boat we are sitting in created by itself?

The Atheist: No, off course not. It is a skillful carpenter who has made the boat.

The Believer: So you agree that this boat is not created by itself?

The Atheist: Yes, I agree.

The Believer:
When such a little thing as a boat can’t be created by itself, then how can the enormous Universe and our huge planet be created by itself?

The Atheist: I don’t know.

The Believer: Now you know why I believe in God.

Hey, cool, I wanna play, too!

Atheist: What is God's origin?

Believer: DURRR I'M STOOOOPID

Atheist: If God wishes us to believe in her, why not provide us with proof of her existence?

Believer: HURRRRR

Atheist: Why rely on god to explain the unexplainable? Why not simply assume explanations have not yet been found, rather than assuming goddidit?

Believer: DERP *drools on floor*

So I was going to base my beliefs on this conversation, but then it occurred to me that a more enlightened person would have actual discussions with people who actually disagree with him, rather than building his arguments on hypothetical conversations with an imagined opponent.

No single step in the search for enlightenment should ever be considered sacred; only the search should.
-Ann Druyan
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05-24-2011, 02:17 AM
Post: #7
RE: Does God exist?
All psychological problems come from the little head or envy of the little head, Freud.

????????????????
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05-26-2011, 02:04 AM
Post: #8
RE: Does God exist?
This post is ridiculous. Religious people cleaner then non religious people, seriously? Firstly, PLEASE, show me one article written by a scientist that proves the existence of God. If this was a true statement, then this discussion would not be happening right now.

Secondly,
Quote:The universe is not created by itself. The Universe is not created by chance. Not even a little pencil can be created by chance. So when not even a pencil can be created by itself, then how can the enormous, harmonious, symmetrical, mathematical and scientific Universe be created by itself? When not even a little pencil can be created by itself, then how can the advanced and complex human body be created by itself? Did you know that the human brain is more than 40 000 times more advanced then the most advanced computer that exists in the world today? Think about. When a flower grows, who makes the flower grow? Human beings don’t make the flower grow. Human beings can never make a flower grow. If a flower is going to grow, it needs energy from the outside. Energy that makes it grow. It is higher power that makes the flower grow. And that higher power is God the Almighty, the All-knowing. God is the one who created the Universe. And God is the one who maintains it.

The universe is not a calm place, it is violent. The death of stars, the creation of stars, the clashing of two galaxies, there is so much going on. You are comparing a pencil which is a man made object to the universe. Tell me, did god make earth? No, as our sun was being formed, the space dust, rocks, etc orbiting the sun where clashing into each other and millions of years later, those rocks that were being cold wielded to each other made each planet in our solar system. This goes on time and time again through our vast universe.

Let me ask you one question. If you dont believe that the universe created itself and has been doing so for trillions upon trillions of years, then who created God? If you are able to believe in the idea of infinite, then you should be able to believe in the idea that our universe has always been here, and through massive amounts of time, it recreates itself.
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05-26-2011, 02:15 AM
Post: #9
RE: Does God exist?
(05-26-2011 02:04 AM)Topramen20 Wrote:  This post is ridiculous.

Everything after this point is unnecessary.
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05-26-2011, 07:29 AM (This post was last modified: 05-26-2011 07:42 AM by kaleb.)
Post: #10
RE: Does God exist?
(05-22-2011 02:57 PM)Sensei Wrote:  Many people don’t know if God exists. They don't know if a higher power exists. So how do we know that there is a God? How do we know that there is a creator? Let me share a story with you.

One day two friends went fishing with a little boat. One of them was an atheist (non-believer) and the other was a believer (he believed in God). As they were fishing they had a conversation with eachother.

The Atheist: Why do you believe in God? We can’t see God. The Universe was created by itself.

The Believer: Let me ask you a question. Is the boat we are sitting in created by itself?

The Atheist: No, off course not. It is a skillful carpenter who has made the boat.

The Believer: So you agree that this boat is not created by itself?

The Atheist: Yes, I agree.

The Believer:
When such a little thing as a boat can’t be created by itself, then how can the enormous Universe and our huge planet be created by itself?

The Atheist: I don’t know.

The Believer: Now you know why I believe in God.
TBH sensie, that kind of reasoning doesn't cut it. I understand where you are coming from, but ones like flip, gt, pain etc are not idiots. If you try to use that kind of simplistic reasoning, you will only receive ridicule, and EA has owned you on the made vs created issue.
Just saying like

(05-26-2011 02:04 AM)Topramen20 Wrote:  Let me ask you one question. If you dont believe that the universe created itself and has been doing so for trillions upon trillions of years, then who created God?

I believe God is the efficent CAUSE of the world and everything else in it. All matter, energy, space, mass and time were brought into existence by Jehovah.
He is the CAUSE, & the framework by which space time and energy exist.

The universe can NOT be eternal, there is a past space time boundary that represents the absolute beginning of the cosmos.

This is one of many areas I believe make theism more logical than atheism as it has an explanation that for myself at least makes sense in regards to first cause.


Quote: If you are able to believe in the idea of infinite, then you should be able to believe in the idea that our universe has always been here, and through massive amounts of time, it recreates itself.

I believe only Jehovah is eternal, the starting point of creation being his son, Jesus, and the universe was created over many billions of years.

For I well know the thoughts that I am thinking toward you, declares Jehovah, thoughts of peace, and not of calamity, to give you a future and a hope.- Jeremiah 29:11
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