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EU workplace headscarf ban is legal, says ECJ
03-14-2017, 06:37 AM (This post was last modified: 03-14-2017 06:37 AM by FilmFlaneur.)
Post: #1
EU workplace headscarf ban is legal, says ECJ
Personally I don't have an issue with this judgement since it enshrines neutrality in the consideration of things. If people wish then they can, of course still wear their trinkets under their clothes, or more openly outside work.


Quote: EU workplace headscarf ban is legal, says ECJ


Employers are entitled to ban workers from the "visible wearing of any political, philosophical or religious sign" including headscarves, Europe's top court has ruled. But the ban must be based on internal company rules requiring all employees to "dress neutrally", said the European Court of Justice (ECJ). It cannot be based on the wishes of a customer, it said. It is the court's first decision on the issue of Islamic headscarves at work. The ECJ's ruling was prompted by the case of a receptionist fired for wearing a headscarf to work at the security company G4S in Belgium.




Belgium's court of cassation had referred the case to the EU's top court for clarification. The issues of Muslim dress and the integration of immigrant communities has featured prominently in debates in several European countries in recent years. Austria and the German state of Bavaria have recently announced bans on full-face veils in public spaces. The rights group Amnesty International said Tuesday's ECJ rulings were "disappointing" and "opened a backdoor to... prejudice".



The ECJ ruled on the case of Samira Achbita, fired in June 2006 when, after three years of employment, she began wearing a headscarf to work. She claimed she was being discriminated against on the grounds of her religion. But at the time of her hiring an "unwritten rule" had been in operation banning overt religious symbols, and the company subsequently went on to include this prohibition explicitly in its workplace regulations, the court explained in its ruling.

That covered "any manifestation of such beliefs without distinction", and was therefore not discriminatory, it said. It said "an employer's desire to project an image of neutrality towards both its public and private sector customers is legitimate" - but national courts must make sure this policy of neutrality had been applied equally to all employees. It said the Belgian court ruling on the case must also ascertain whether it could have been possible to offer Ms Achbita another post not involving visual contact with customers.

In another case referred to in its ruling, that of design engineer Asma Bougnaoui employed by the Micropole firm in France, the ECJ makes the point that any prohibition on Islamic headscarves must not be based on "subjective considerations". "The willingness of an employer to take account of the wishes of a customer no longer to have the services of that employer provided by a worker wearing an Islamic headscarf cannot be considered a genuine and determining occupational requirement," it said. A French court must determine whether the company in this case had dismissed Ms Bougnaoui solely to satisfy a customer or in accordance with a wider internal prohibition on religious symbols, the court ruled.

But John Dalhuisen, director of Amnesty International's Europe and Central Asia programme, said the rulings "give greater leeway to employers to discriminate against women - and men - on the grounds of religious belief. At a time when identity and appearance has become a political battleground, people need more protection against prejudice, not less. "The court did say that employers are not at liberty to pander to the prejudices of their clients. But by ruling that company policies can prohibit religious symbols on the grounds of neutrality, they have opened a backdoor to precisely such prejudice."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39264845
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03-14-2017, 06:30 PM
Post: #2
RE: EU workplace headscarf ban is legal, says ECJ
Eh, i agree with it totally, i think people should be free to hire people that they want representing their company, and free to fire those that they feel misrepresent it or otherwise negatively effect business (even if its based on bigotry or even racism (which for the most part this does not appear to be)).

its like the whole cake for a gay wedding thing, or the Holocaust deniers.. you cant make people be unbiased, you cant force people to not be bigoted.

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03-16-2017, 11:31 PM
Post: #3
RE: EU workplace headscarf ban is legal, says ECJ
Government officials should be secular. No religious garb or ornaments should be allowed.

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03-17-2017, 07:27 AM (This post was last modified: 03-17-2017 08:52 AM by clarence clutterbuck.)
Post: #4
RE: EU workplace headscarf ban is legal, says ECJ
UK law tends to rule on the side of personal freedom in the area of religious dress codes in the workplace. For instance, Sikhs have an exemption from the requirement to wear helmets on motorcycles and safety helmets on building sites.

I s'pose their turbans can look quite cool really, like Guru off of the 1960's TV cartoon series Fantastic Voyage, although I'm not sure if Guru is a Sikh. The opening titles vaguely described him as a "Master of mysterious powers".

[Image: 29c55e3b4beb433a0199f79a6a36cdd91667907.jpg]

Young Muslim women can also look quite smart and well presented in their headscarves, although those older Pakistani women with the more shapeless headgear style resembling sprawling old tablecloths look less smart.

I can't see a problem with normal Muslim headscarves, but I think those full length black body bags with slits for the eyes are inappropriate for wearing in the workplace. I get the impression that women who wear this sort of garb don't usually have jobs anyway. They're probably the women who walk four paces behind the husband and can't venture outside the house without a male guardian. Who may be a four year old child.

I think it's fair to ban those body bags from being worn by schoolteachers of infants, where facial contact is a desirable factor in the learning process. They might also scare youngsters due to the "Darth Vader" effect. Not good.

[Image: Cannot-Wear-Niqab-at-Work-225x300.jpg]

The current UK position is that when he was PM, David Cameron politely suggested that it might be a bad thing for teachers of young children to wear the body bags, but in the end it was left to the discretion of individual schools, which seems wishy washy and poor.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/20...ays-morgan

I suppose one possible snag in banning religious clothing of Muslim females is when when the Muslim husband or guardian is one of those types you read about who might slaughter the daughter or missus and bury her body under the patio in two suitcases for bringing shame on the family by displaying the slightest departure from religious orthodoxy. Sad
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03-17-2017, 09:49 AM
Post: #5
RE: EU workplace headscarf ban is legal, says ECJ
Im 100% against banning any such costumes. people can wear what they like. but i do believe that we should shun identity covering clothing as a society, for practical reasons, but most certainly not with laws.

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03-17-2017, 10:29 AM
Post: #6
RE: EU workplace headscarf ban is legal, says ECJ
(03-17-2017 09:49 AM)PeterPants Wrote:  Im 100% against banning any such costumes. people can wear what they like. but i do believe that we should shun identity covering clothing as a society, for practical reasons, but most certainly not with laws.

Without explicit laws you will not be able to stop people wearing it...

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03-17-2017, 10:35 AM
Post: #7
RE: EU workplace headscarf ban is legal, says ECJ
Well that entirely depends on the cultural ratios within a society and how any influential groups or majority groups react to the thing. and the timeframe i guess.

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03-17-2017, 10:38 AM
Post: #8
RE: EU workplace headscarf ban is legal, says ECJ
(03-17-2017 10:35 AM)PeterPants Wrote:  Well that entirely depends on the cultural ratios within a society and how any influential groups or majority groups react to the thing. and the timeframe i guess.

I think recent history (e.g. here in Europe) has shown that people that want to wear such clothing won't let themselves be stopped by any of the things you mention...

If you think this is what your religion asks of you, you're not going to care about what others think.

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03-17-2017, 10:46 AM
Post: #9
RE: EU workplace headscarf ban is legal, says ECJ
thats one very specific setup of variables though.. there are many groups of Muslims, most surely? who don't wear full face covering clothing. because multiculturalism is very varied, Largely due to cultural mixing i would guess.

My whole problem with 'faith' and religion has always been the inability to move forward in conversation, in ideas, because faith based beliefs are immune to reasoning, so i certainly recognize the validity of the problem here, but certainly their are many cases of integration and reformation.

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03-17-2017, 12:00 PM
Post: #10
RE: EU workplace headscarf ban is legal, says ECJ
(03-17-2017 10:46 AM)PeterPants Wrote:  thats one very specific setup of variables though.. there are many groups of Muslims, most surely? who don't wear full face covering clothing.

Absolutely.... but the discussion was about women who want to wear (or are being made to wear) niqaabs and such...

(03-17-2017 10:46 AM)PeterPants Wrote:  My whole problem with 'faith' and religion has always been the inability to move forward in conversation, in ideas, because faith based beliefs are immune to reasoning, so i certainly recognize the validity of the problem here, but certainly their are many cases of integration and reformation.

Yup. Unfortunately, dogma often trumps reason, discussion etc.

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