Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Equal and SoldierofAllah328 debate: Does God Exist and What is The Purpose Of Life
08-03-2013, 08:16 AM
Post: #1
Equal and SoldierofAllah328 debate: Does God Exist and What is The Purpose Of Life
I have done this once before with Adam. I would like to start, by stating how this thread is coming about. SoldierofAllah328 sent me an email, asking if I would like to debate this specific subjects. I know there are already threads out there about these very things, but an open debate, with everyone in it, can sometimes cause the debates, to turn into very different things then what you started with. So for the sake of this thread, if Soldier agrees, I would like to keep this debate, between the two of us, open for everyone to read, but for only us to reply to, for now. This is the same thing Adam and I did awhile back. After we reach a certain point, we can agree to let everyone else respond. So with this in mind, I would like to leave it open for Soldier to start. Topics for this debate, Does God exist, and what is the meaning of life.

If everyone was thinking the same thing, then no one would be thinking at all.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-06-2013, 07:55 PM
Post: #2
RE: Equal and SoldierofAllah328 debate: Does God Exist and What is The Purpose Of Life
(08-03-2013 08:16 AM)EqualAtheist Wrote:  I have done this once before with Adam. I would like to start, by stating how this thread is coming about. SoldierofAllah328 sent me an email, asking if I would like to debate this specific subjects. I know there are already threads out there about these very things, but an open debate, with everyone in it, can sometimes cause the debates, to turn into very different things then what you started with. So for the sake of this thread, if Soldier agrees, I would like to keep this debate, between the two of us, open for everyone to read, but for only us to reply to, for now. This is the same thing Adam and I did awhile back. After we reach a certain point, we can agree to let everyone else respond. So with this in mind, I would like to leave it open for Soldier to start. Topics for this debate, Does God exist, and what is the meaning of life.

Thank you Equal I fully agree with what you've said I would for now like to keep this debate between the two of us and after a certain time others may feel free to reply to any comments that have been made. With that I would like begin by stating my open introduction to the argument of "What is the purpose of life." In the mind of a theist the best answer to this question "What is The Purpose of Life" is given by God almighty or as we Muslims say Allah (SWT). Now if you think about certain aspects of life regardless whether you are a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or an Atheist. If you think about life mankind was created for a purpose and there is a reason we are here. We cant have just sprouted up of nowhere with no purpose on this planet. There must be a reason. It's an undeniable fact that in modern society we are living in the age of science and technology. Atheists don't believe in a supreme deity for many reasons. One of them being the fact that science has advanced so much hence we don't require any scripture nor religion. In reply the theist may ask "If there is no purpose of life then why do we have all the scriptures among the world religions such as The Bible, The Quran, The Torah, The Vedas etc. etc.?" All the major world religions live their lives according to the teachings of their scriptures. They follow their faith based on their scriptures. For Example the Quran says not to eat pork or drink alcohol therefore this is prohibited to all Muslims. Many Atheists disagree with the scriptures because they have this notion that they were written by man or over the course of time have been manipulated to suit the desires of man. For them mere words are not enough for proof, for proof they would require some scientific proof. Lord Kelvin who was a British Scientist once said "
(08-03-2013 08:16 AM)EqualAtheist Wrote:  I have done this once before with Adam. I would like to start, by stating how this thread is coming about. SoldierofAllah328 sent me an email, asking if I would like to debate this specific subjects. I know there are already threads out there about these very things, but an open debate, with everyone in it, can sometimes cause the debates, to turn into very different things then what you started with. So for the sake of this thread, if Soldier agrees, I would like to keep this debate, between the two of us, open for everyone to read, but for only us to reply to, for now. This is the same thing Adam and I did awhile back. After we reach a certain point, we can agree to let everyone else respond. So with this in mind, I would like to leave it open for Soldier to start. Topics for this debate, Does God exist, and what is the meaning of life.

Thank you Equal I fully agree with what you've said I would for now like to keep this debate between the two of us and after a certain time others may feel free to reply to any comments that have been made. With that I would like begin by stating my open introduction to the argument of "What is the purpose of life." In the mind of a theist the best answer to this question "What is The Purpose of Life" is given by God almighty or as we Muslims say Allah (SWT). Now if you think about certain aspects of life regardless whether you are a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or an Atheist. If you think about life mankind was created for a purpose and there is a reason we are here. We cant have just sprouted up of nowhere with no purpose on this planet. There must be a reason. It's an undeniable fact that in modern society we are living in the age of science and technology. Atheists don't believe in a supreme deity for many reasons. One of them being the fact that science has advanced so much hence we don't require any scripture nor religion. In reply the theist may ask "If there is no purpose of life then why do we have all the scriptures among the world religions such as The Bible, The Quran, The Torah, The Vedas etc. etc.?" All the major world religions live their lives according to the teachings of their scriptures. They follow their faith based on their scriptures. For Example the Quran says not to eat pork or drink alcohol therefore this is prohibited to all Muslims. Many Atheists disagree with the scriptures because they have this notion that they were written by man or over the course of time have been manipulated to suit the desires of man. For them mere words are not enough for proof, for proof they would require some scientific proof. Lord Kelvin who was a British Scientist once said "The more thoroughly I conduct scientific research, the more I believe that science excludes atheism." He believed that when you deeply study science that it makes you a believer of God. If all scriptures of the three Abrahamic religions Judaism, Islam, Christianity speak about the purpose of life in their scriptures. The Quran says in chapter 51 verse 56 "And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me." The Bible also gives mankind a variety of regulations to abide by during their lifetime. In the book of Romans chapter 13 verse 9 "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." So if according to you (not you personally) there is no purpose of life then are all the scriptures lying when they state the purpose of life. And if there is no supreme Deity then how was this Earth created and how was Mankind brought into Being and what happens after we die.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-08-2013, 08:21 AM
Post: #3
RE: Equal and SoldierofAllah328 debate: Does God Exist and What is The Purpose Of Life
(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  "What is the purpose of life." In the mind of a theist the best answer to this question "What is The Purpose of Life" is given by God almighty or as we Muslims say Allah (SWT).

Here I will give my purpose for life, which is, to give purpose to life. Being that every person is different, and thinks differently, the purpose in life will be different for everyone. Some people will choose to believe as you do, and thus make their purpose of life, to follow a religion, and its view for a purpose. Other will choose other religions, and others will choose no religion, and create their own purpose. However, we all have one thing in common, in that we all give our own purpose. If God exists, or not.


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Now if you think about certain aspects of life regardless whether you are a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or an Atheist. If you think about life mankind was created for a purpose and there is a reason we are here.

If you really think about it, as you are claiming, and I have, as KAYSER says, I overthink or think to much, you will find that the only reason there is a claim that mankind was created for a purpose, is because many of mankind do not like the idea of not having a purpose. This since of purpose seems to be a driving force to keep us moving. However, it is not needed. Thinking we have a purpose in all the universe, does not mean that we do. Wanting a purpose, does not mean we actually have one. Basically if mankind, and mankind alone, where to disappear this very second, the rest of the universe, or life on our own planet, would not even take notice, except to say, some of the wildlife would probably flourish without us. Our buildings would crumble, and plant life would reclaim areas that we took. Life would go on, as if we were never here. However, there is a reason we are here. There is cause and effect for everything, which leads to a reason. However, that reason, has no need to be divine.


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  We cant have just sprouted up of nowhere with no purpose on this planet.

I do not believe we did sprout up from nowhere. However, as stated above, our purpose on this planet, is given by us. We are the coloring inside of the paint, of a car. We can think that we protect the car, or the car runs because of us, or the car was made, so that we could be on it, but if you remove that color from the paint, the car still works, and is still a car without us. I think we give ourselves more purpose, and more credit, then we deserve. We are animals, just like other animals. Many animals are now extinct, yet the rest of us are still here. Just like all the others would still be here, if we were extinct.


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  There must be a reason.

There is a reason. However, reason by cause and effect, would be different then purpose. For example. Ash is caused by something being burned. The reason there is ash, is because something caught fire, and after the fire consumed all the fuel and died out, the ash is what was left. That does not mean the ash has a purpose, and the fire was made just to make sure the ash could find its purpose. See the difference?


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  It's an undeniable fact that in modern society we are living in the age of science and technology. Atheists don't believe in a supreme deity for many reasons. One of them being the fact that science has advanced so much hence we don't require any scripture nor religion.

I am sure there are many Atheists that think like this, however, I think you are a little off on this. We live with much science and technology, and have learned a great deal since the time that many religions where created, and have found that the answers for many mysteries that are answered by religion, often incorrectly, are no longer needed. Thus scripture and religion are not needed to answer many of the questions we had, however that would have nothing to do with a deity. Only the known scripture and religions.


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  In reply the theist may ask "If there is no purpose of life then why do we have all the scriptures among the world religions such as The Bible, The Quran, The Torah, The Vedas etc. etc.?" All the major world religions live their lives according to the teachings of their scriptures. They follow their faith based on their scriptures. For Example the Quran says not to eat pork or drink alcohol therefore this is prohibited to all Muslims.

Which was done before the major world religions existed, inside of much smaller religions. Even the American Indians has religion, and a way to live life based on observations and interpretations of the world around them. This falls into what I said above, where mankind gives mankind the purpose it feels it should have, in order to move forward. To have answer to questions, and sometimes making up any answers they can just to have them. The very basic answer to why do men have scripture, is because man created it, to have purpose. No one likes feeling useless. Its part of coping process.


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Many Atheists disagree with the scriptures because they have this notion that they were written by man or over the course of time have been manipulated to suit the desires of man.

The reading of scripture, shows this to be correct. For example, many people hate things that are different or odd to them. So you find something that many people dislike or feel uncomfortable with, such as homosexuality, and you make it bad, so that if people are ok with it, and accepting of it, you do not have to feel uncomfortable with it yourself. As the saying goes, if God hates the same things you do, then it should be clear that, that God, is man made.


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  For them mere words are not enough for proof, for proof they would require some scientific proof. Lord Kelvin who was a British Scientist once said "The more thoroughly I conduct scientific research, the more I believe that science excludes atheism." He believed that when you deeply study science that it makes you a believer of God.

Which is fine. If you go into science, with the answer already set in your mind, then all the answers you find, will lead you to the conclusion, you already wanted. The problem with this, is you are not proving or disproving anything, just pushing more to an opinion, which everyone has.


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  If all scriptures of the three Abrahamic religions Judaism, Islam, Christianity speak about the purpose of life in their scriptures. The Quran says in chapter 51 verse 56 "And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me." The Bible also gives mankind a variety of regulations to abide by during their lifetime. In the book of Romans chapter 13 verse 9 "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." So if according to you (not you personally) there is no purpose of life then are all the scriptures lying when they state the purpose of life.

Not exactly. The scriptures play multiple roles. To place law, to give hope, and to explain, that which could not be explained at the time. All of the laws provided though, and all the purpose, would, could, and I personally believe was, created by man. Lets take the verse from the Quran alone. If jinn and mankind where made to worship God, then God should be something instilled in all of us, to be able to accept without need of scripture at all. It would just be common knowledge. Something we are born with. Yet this is not how it is. The reason why there are so many different religions, that say so many different things, and the reason why they all seem to want to war with each other, is the simple fact, that we are not born with this knowledge, and this knowledge is learned. The more reason to believe it is man made.



(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  And if there is no supreme Deity then how was this Earth created and how was Mankind brought into Being and what happens after we die.

The very simple and most truthful answer that can be given, is... I do not know. I do not know what happened before the beginning of the universe as we know it. I do not know what is outside the universe. I do not know if we are the only universe. However, plugging in an answer to make me feel better, would not make the answer the right one. What happens after we die? The same thing that was happening before we where born.

If everyone was thinking the same thing, then no one would be thinking at all.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-11-2013, 12:54 PM
Post: #4
RE: Equal and SoldierofAllah328 debate: Does God Exist and What is The Purpose Of Life
(08-08-2013 08:21 AM)EqualAtheist Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  "What is the purpose of life." In the mind of a theist the best answer to this question "What is The Purpose of Life" is given by God almighty or as we Muslims say Allah (SWT).

Here I will give my purpose for life, which is, to give purpose to life. Being that every person is different, and thinks differently, the purpose in life will be different for everyone. Some people will choose to believe as you do, and thus make their purpose of life, to follow a religion, and its view for a purpose. Other will choose other religions, and others will choose no religion, and create their own purpose. However, we all have one thing in common, in that we all give our own purpose. If God exists, or not.


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Now if you think about certain aspects of life regardless whether you are a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or an Atheist. If you think about life mankind was created for a purpose and there is a reason we are here.

If you really think about it, as you are claiming, and I have, as KAYSER says, I overthink or think to much, you will find that the only reason there is a claim that mankind was created for a purpose, is because many of mankind do not like the idea of not having a purpose. This since of purpose seems to be a driving force to keep us moving. However, it is not needed. Thinking we have a purpose in all the universe, does not mean that we do. Wanting a purpose, does not mean we actually have one. Basically if mankind, and mankind alone, where to disappear this very second, the rest of the universe, or life on our own planet, would not even take notice, except to say, some of the wildlife would probably flourish without us. Our buildings would crumble, and plant life would reclaim areas that we took. Life would go on, as if we were never here. However, there is a reason we are here. There is cause and effect for everything, which leads to a reason. However, that reason, has no need to be divine.


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  We cant have just sprouted up of nowhere with no purpose on this planet.

I do not believe we did sprout up from nowhere. However, as stated above, our purpose on this planet, is given by us. We are the coloring inside of the paint, of a car. We can think that we protect the car, or the car runs because of us, or the car was made, so that we could be on it, but if you remove that color from the paint, the car still works, and is still a car without us. I think we give ourselves more purpose, and more credit, then we deserve. We are animals, just like other animals. Many animals are now extinct, yet the rest of us are still here. Just like all the others would still be here, if we were extinct.


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  There must be a reason.

There is a reason. However, reason by cause and effect, would be different then purpose. For example. Ash is caused by something being burned. The reason there is ash, is because something caught fire, and after the fire consumed all the fuel and died out, the ash is what was left. That does not mean the ash has a purpose, and the fire was made just to make sure the ash could find its purpose. See the difference?


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  It's an undeniable fact that in modern society we are living in the age of science and technology. Atheists don't believe in a supreme deity for many reasons. One of them being the fact that science has advanced so much hence we don't require any scripture nor religion.

I am sure there are many Atheists that think like this, however, I think you are a little off on this. We live with much science and technology, and have learned a great deal since the time that many religions where created, and have found that the answers for many mysteries that are answered by religion, often incorrectly, are no longer needed. Thus scripture and religion are not needed to answer many of the questions we had, however that would have nothing to do with a deity. Only the known scripture and religions.


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  In reply the theist may ask "If there is no purpose of life then why do we have all the scriptures among the world religions such as The Bible, The Quran, The Torah, The Vedas etc. etc.?" All the major world religions live their lives according to the teachings of their scriptures. They follow their faith based on their scriptures. For Example the Quran says not to eat pork or drink alcohol therefore this is prohibited to all Muslims.

Which was done before the major world religions existed, inside of much smaller religions. Even the American Indians has religion, and a way to live life based on observations and interpretations of the world around them. This falls into what I said above, where mankind gives mankind the purpose it feels it should have, in order to move forward. To have answer to questions, and sometimes making up any answers they can just to have them. The very basic answer to why do men have scripture, is because man created it, to have purpose. No one likes feeling useless. Its part of coping process.


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Many Atheists disagree with the scriptures because they have this notion that they were written by man or over the course of time have been manipulated to suit the desires of man.

The reading of scripture, shows this to be correct. For example, many people hate things that are different or odd to them. So you find something that many people dislike or feel uncomfortable with, such as homosexuality, and you make it bad, so that if people are ok with it, and accepting of it, you do not have to feel uncomfortable with it yourself. As the saying goes, if God hates the same things you do, then it should be clear that, that God, is man made.


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  For them mere words are not enough for proof, for proof they would require some scientific proof. Lord Kelvin who was a British Scientist once said "The more thoroughly I conduct scientific research, the more I believe that science excludes atheism." He believed that when you deeply study science that it makes you a believer of God.

Which is fine. If you go into science, with the answer already set in your mind, then all the answers you find, will lead you to the conclusion, you already wanted. The problem with this, is you are not proving or disproving anything, just pushing more to an opinion, which everyone has.


(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  If all scriptures of the three Abrahamic religions Judaism, Islam, Christianity speak about the purpose of life in their scriptures. The Quran says in chapter 51 verse 56 "And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me." The Bible also gives mankind a variety of regulations to abide by during their lifetime. In the book of Romans chapter 13 verse 9 "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." So if according to you (not you personally) there is no purpose of life then are all the scriptures lying when they state the purpose of life.

Not exactly. The scriptures play multiple roles. To place law, to give hope, and to explain, that which could not be explained at the time. All of the laws provided though, and all the purpose, would, could, and I personally believe was, created by man. Lets take the verse from the Quran alone. If jinn and mankind where made to worship God, then God should be something instilled in all of us, to be able to accept without need of scripture at all. It would just be common knowledge. Something we are born with. Yet this is not how it is. The reason why there are so many different religions, that say so many different things, and the reason why they all seem to want to war with each other, is the simple fact, that we are not born with this knowledge, and this knowledge is learned. The more reason to believe it is man made.



(08-06-2013 07:55 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  And if there is no supreme Deity then how was this Earth created and how was Mankind brought into Being and what happens after we die.

The very simple and most truthful answer that can be given, is... I do not know. I do not know what happened before the beginning of the universe as we know it. I do not know what is outside the universe. I do not know if we are the only universe. However, plugging in an answer to make me feel better, would not make the answer the right one. What happens after we die? The same thing that was happening before we where born.

You made a few points on cause and effect and i agree with you. Maybe you may be referring to the cosmological argument which states that there is no effect without cause and vice versa. Almighty God cannot be man made as you said " if God hates the same things you do, then it should be clear that, that God, is man made." a theist would oppose against this because why would the creator be on the same level as his creation. That's like a car being on the same level as the engineer. Do you see where im going. Now God almighty doesn't need human worship. If nobody DID worship God it wouldn't demoralize his glory. Mankind needs to worship God because he created us and provides us with countless blessings. Such as health, food, and shelter. Islam teaches the principle that if we know our goal, our aim in life and if we are determined then we should have the positive mindset and ability physically and mentally to work towards this goal. Universally it is agreed that every part of the human body has its own individual purpose i.e. hands touch, eyes see, nose smells etc. etc. Naturally the conclusion is that whatever is true for the part must also apply for the whole. In other words the purpose of the creation must have a strong connection with each and every part of it. Therefore the creation of mankind overall ultimately has to have a wisdom and purpose behind it. Islam teaches mankind that the Sole purpose of Mankind in life is simply to worship the creator. The Quran in chapter 24 verse 45 "And Allah has created every animal from water; Of them there are some that creep on their bellies ; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four; Allah creates whatever he wills for verily Allah has power over all things." With this i humbly request to move on to our next topic does God Exist
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-11-2013, 07:42 PM
Post: #5
RE: Equal and SoldierofAllah328 debate: Does God Exist and What is The Purpose Of Life
(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  You made a few points on cause and effect and i agree with you. Maybe you may be referring to the cosmological argument which states that there is no effect without cause and vice versa.

If I remember correctly, I think that is the argument, that I am using. I am not completely up to date on how that argument works, but I have been told, that my train of thought, is on the same track. I do not believe we have any clue as to what the first cause was, if there was a first cause to begin with. I also, am arguing against special pleading. Which is when someone says that everything has a cuase, which I believe, but then changes the argument of everything having a cause, by saying, except.... My God. Which would mean, if your God did not have a cause, then EVERYTHING does not have one. If your God does not need a cause to be, then why would anything else? Something along those lines anyway. I believe that if we take what we have the most evidence for, being the big bang, that we can only explain up to a certain point. What came before that point, or caused that point, or what is outside of that, we have no way of knowing. This usually comes in when someone says an Atheist believes that the universe started from nothing. Not all of us think that way. If any of us think that way at all.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Almighty God cannot be man made as you said " if God hates the same things you do, then it should be clear that, that God, is man made."

If God can not be man made, where did all the gods come from? Is it, that you believe your God can not be man made, or that none of the gods can be man made? If you believe one god can be man made, then I see no reason not to believe all of them can be. This is where the popular saying comes in, if you do not believe in someone else's God, think of why you do not believe in them, and use that same reason, for why I do not believe in yours.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  a theist would oppose against this because why would the creator be on the same level as his creation.

I think some theists would oppose this, but I do not believe they all would.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  That's like a car being on the same level as the engineer.

Not really. See a car is built for a specific reason. It does not have feelings, and can not disagree or agree with anything. There is more wrong with the analogy, but I am sure that this is enough.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Do you see where im going.


I see where you were going, but also saw where it went.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Now God almighty doesn't need human worship.

If God exists, I agree. If God exists, I do not believe he would even want worship.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  If nobody DID worship God it wouldn't demoralize his glory. Mankind needs to worship God because he created us and provides us with countless blessings. Such as health, food, and shelter.

If this were true, then all a person would ever need to do, is worship. No farming would be needed. No hunting would be needed. No building, no foraging, no medicine, etc. Plus, if we follow this logic, non believers like myself, should have terrible lives. Food should be hard to come by. Shelter would be falling apart. Our health would be bad. However, everyone gets these blessings, no matter what they believe, as long as they make it happen. Such as, a non believer that eats healthy food, and does proper exercise, is likely going to be in good health. While a believer might do the same thing, except worship as well, but have cancer. Worship, is shown, to not be needed for any of the blessings you have claimed to be given to us. I do not really consider any of those things given.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Islam teaches the principle that if we know our goal, our aim in life and if we are determined then we should have the positive mindset and ability physically and mentally to work towards this goal.


I believe secular humanism teaches this same thing. In fact, I think this is a common theme of most if not all religions, non religions, and philosophies.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Universally it is agreed that every part of the human body has its own individual purpose i.e. hands touch, eyes see, nose smells etc. etc. Naturally the conclusion is that whatever is true for the part must also apply for the whole.

However, you can live without one of each, and still be fine.



(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  In other words the purpose of the creation must have a strong connection with each and every part of it. Therefore the creation of mankind overall ultimately has to have a wisdom and purpose behind it.

As I pointed out before, if mankind where to disappear this very second, the rest of the universe, and life on our own planet would continue as if we were never hear.

What you seem to be showing, fits into my idea of what the purpose of life is, and you are trying to give it purpose. You are taught that you are special. There is much appeal to that. I do not need to feel special, so that line of thought, does nothing for me.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Islam teaches mankind that the Sole purpose of Mankind in life is simply to worship the creator. The Quran in chapter 24 verse 45 "And Allah has created every animal from water; Of them there are some that creep on their bellies ; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four; Allah creates whatever he wills for verily Allah has power over all things." With this i humbly request to move on to our next topic does God Exist

I have no problems moving on to the next topic. I think we can agree with my purpose in life, is to give life purpose. You where taught to believe your purpose is to worship God. You believe that is our main goal. You give that purpose to yourself. I just happen to disagree, and have given my life a different purpose. The only difference between our two ideas, is our opinions about them.

However, if our sole purpose, is to worship the creator, then as I stated above, nothing else would be needed. All of our blessings, that you claim we get would not be needed, if we were worshipping, and fulfilling our sole purpose. If we have to stop worshipping, in order to do other things, like find food to eat, then that would logically mean to me, our purpose must be something else.


So to move on, does God exist? I see no reason to believe so. If God does exist, I do not believe we know anything about him.

If everyone was thinking the same thing, then no one would be thinking at all.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-13-2013, 05:46 PM
Post: #6
RE: Equal and SoldierofAllah328 debate: Does God Exist and What is The Purpose Of Life
(08-11-2013 07:42 PM)EqualAtheist Wrote:  
(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  You made a few points on cause and effect and i agree with you. Maybe you may be referring to the cosmological argument which states that there is no effect without cause and vice versa.

If I remember correctly, I think that is the argument, that I am using. I am not completely up to date on how that argument works, but I have been told, that my train of thought, is on the same track. I do not believe we have any clue as to what the first cause was, if there was a first cause to begin with. I also, am arguing against special pleading. Which is when someone says that everything has a cuase, which I believe, but then changes the argument of everything having a cause, by saying, except.... My God. Which would mean, if your God did not have a cause, then EVERYTHING does not have one. If your God does not need a cause to be, then why would anything else? Something along those lines anyway. I believe that if we take what we have the most evidence for, being the big bang, that we can only explain up to a certain point. What came before that point, or caused that point, or what is outside of that, we have no way of knowing. This usually comes in when someone says an Atheist believes that the universe started from nothing. Not all of us think that way. If any of us think that way at all.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Almighty God cannot be man made as you said " if God hates the same things you do, then it should be clear that, that God, is man made."

If God can not be man made, where did all the gods come from? Is it, that you believe your God can not be man made, or that none of the gods can be man made? If you believe one god can be man made, then I see no reason not to believe all of them can be. This is where the popular saying comes in, if you do not believe in someone else's God, think of why you do not believe in them, and use that same reason, for why I do not believe in yours.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  a theist would oppose against this because why would the creator be on the same level as his creation.

I think some theists would oppose this, but I do not believe they all would.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  That's like a car being on the same level as the engineer.

Not really. See a car is built for a specific reason. It does not have feelings, and can not disagree or agree with anything. There is more wrong with the analogy, but I am sure that this is enough.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Do you see where im going.


I see where you were going, but also saw where it went.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Now God almighty doesn't need human worship.

If God exists, I agree. If God exists, I do not believe he would even want worship.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  If nobody DID worship God it wouldn't demoralize his glory. Mankind needs to worship God because he created us and provides us with countless blessings. Such as health, food, and shelter.

If this were true, then all a person would ever need to do, is worship. No farming would be needed. No hunting would be needed. No building, no foraging, no medicine, etc. Plus, if we follow this logic, non believers like myself, should have terrible lives. Food should be hard to come by. Shelter would be falling apart. Our health would be bad. However, everyone gets these blessings, no matter what they believe, as long as they make it happen. Such as, a non believer that eats healthy food, and does proper exercise, is likely going to be in good health. While a believer might do the same thing, except worship as well, but have cancer. Worship, is shown, to not be needed for any of the blessings you have claimed to be given to us. I do not really consider any of those things given.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Islam teaches the principle that if we know our goal, our aim in life and if we are determined then we should have the positive mindset and ability physically and mentally to work towards this goal.


I believe secular humanism teaches this same thing. In fact, I think this is a common theme of most if not all religions, non religions, and philosophies.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Universally it is agreed that every part of the human body has its own individual purpose i.e. hands touch, eyes see, nose smells etc. etc. Naturally the conclusion is that whatever is true for the part must also apply for the whole.

However, you can live without one of each, and still be fine.



(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  In other words the purpose of the creation must have a strong connection with each and every part of it. Therefore the creation of mankind overall ultimately has to have a wisdom and purpose behind it.

As I pointed out before, if mankind where to disappear this very second, the rest of the universe, and life on our own planet would continue as if we were never hear.

What you seem to be showing, fits into my idea of what the purpose of life is, and you are trying to give it purpose. You are taught that you are special. There is much appeal to that. I do not need to feel special, so that line of thought, does nothing for me.


(08-11-2013 12:54 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Islam teaches mankind that the Sole purpose of Mankind in life is simply to worship the creator. The Quran in chapter 24 verse 45 "And Allah has created every animal from water; Of them there are some that creep on their bellies ; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four; Allah creates whatever he wills for verily Allah has power over all things." With this i humbly request to move on to our next topic does God Exist

I have no problems moving on to the next topic. I think we can agree with my purpose in life, is to give life purpose. You where taught to believe your purpose is to worship God. You believe that is our main goal. You give that purpose to yourself. I just happen to disagree, and have given my life a different purpose. The only difference between our two ideas, is our opinions about them.

However, if our sole purpose, is to worship the creator, then as I stated above, nothing else would be needed. All of our blessings, that you claim we get would not be needed, if we were worshipping, and fulfilling our sole purpose. If we have to stop worshipping, in order to do other things, like find food to eat, then that would logically mean to me, our purpose must be something else.


So to move on, does God exist? I see no reason to believe so. If God does exist, I do not believe we know anything about him.

My final answer before we move on. You said how if our purpose in life is to worship God then things farming, hunting looking after people etc etc would mean we would have to stop worshipping God in order to do these. But what you have to understand is that Almighty tells mankind how to live their lives and what they must do in order to a achieve Peace and reward from God. Over 60 verses in the holy Quran where Almighty God tells mankind how to live their daily lives. In chapter 17 verse 70 "Respect all human beings irrespective of their race, religion, colour, job" also in chapter 4 verse 5 "Speak in a civilised manner in a language that is recognised by the society and is commonly used" judging by these verses you (not you personally) would come to the conclusion that God didn't create us without telling us how to live our daily lives. He created us for a purpose and has told us how to live our daily lives as mentioned in the Quran. You also said how of mankind were to disappear tis second life on Earth would just continue as if we were never here. Firstly it all comes back to reason and purpose again. There would have to be a reason and a cause for mankind to disappear off of Earth. As i said earlier there is no cause without effect. You would have to think WHY why would mankind suddenly just disappear off of earth for no reason. You cannot say that life on Earth would continue as normal without Mankind because you Cannot justify or prove it. Only God can because he created Earth and Mankind and he has power to do all things. I humbly request you to begin your argument on Does God Exist.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-14-2013, 07:22 AM
Post: #7
RE: Equal and SoldierofAllah328 debate: Does God Exist and What is The Purpose Of Life
(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  My final answer before we move on. You said how if our purpose in life is to worship God then things farming, hunting looking after people etc etc would mean we would have to stop worshipping God in order to do these.


No, I said that if our sole purpose was to worship God, then why would these other things be needed. If we were fulfilling our sole purpose, then that would be all we need to do. If all these other things are needed, then that would change our sole purpose.

(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  But what you have to understand is that Almighty tells mankind how to live their lives and what they must do in order to a achieve Peace and reward from God.

If our sole purpose is to worship, then reward would not be needed. In fact, if we have free will, then our sole purpose is then what I claim the purpose in life to be, and that would be to give life meaning. Reward and punishment, is how humans doing things. If God is working on the same guidelines as we are, then that would be more evidence, that God, is more likely man made.

For example. If you own a company, and you have workers, then you use the same reward and punishment principle. If you work, you get paid. Thus you are rewarded. If you do not work, you are punished, thus fired, and do not get paid. That is your punishment. This is a man made concept. If God does the same thing, and uses the same man made concept, then it would reason that God is man made.


(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Over 60 verses in the holy Quran where Almighty God tells mankind how to live their daily lives.


Actually, it is the authors of the Quran, that do that, however, that is a different debate all together.


(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  In chapter 17 verse 70 "Respect all human beings irrespective of their race, religion, colour, job" also in chapter 4 verse 5 "Speak in a civilised manner in a language that is recognised by the society and is commonly used" judging by these verses you (not you personally) would come to the conclusion that God didn't create us without telling us how to live our daily lives.

So far, you have listed a great deal of Secular ideas. It goes to reason, that if you disrespect others, other will disrespect you. This was learned long before the idea of your God came about. This came before the idea of the God, that your God is based on came about. Then again, this is another debate. However, this also goes back to free will. If we have free will, given to us by God, then our sole purpose, could not be to worship, but to choose our purpose, whatever we choose, willingly to do. Which would mean, that if God created us, then our purpose, was given to us to choose what it is, with his suggestion, as to what he wants.


(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  He created us for a purpose and has told us how to live our daily lives as mentioned in the Quran.

See above, about free will. If we do not have free will, then you are correct. However, not all believe in the Quran. Not all around the time the Quran was created had access to the Quran, and there are still people to this day, that have never heard of the Quran. Yet all these people still make their own purpose, and many choose not to worship your God, or any other. These people are still kind, caring, giving, helpful, loving, peaceful people. With a purpose, they made themselves.



(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  You also said how of mankind were to disappear tis second life on Earth would just continue as if we were never here. Firstly it all comes back to reason and purpose again. There would have to be a reason and a cause for mankind to disappear off of Earth.

There would be a reason and cause. Humans destroying themselves with nuclear weapons. A virus pops up, that we can not overcome. Bacteria that is harmful to us, that we can not fight with antibiotics, because they evolved and became immune to the ones we use. The list of causes, for our ceasing to exist could be endless.


(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  As i said earlier there is no cause without effect.

What caused God? Remember, NO CAUSE WITHOUT EFFECT


(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  You would have to think WHY why would mankind suddenly just disappear off of earth for no reason.

Use any of the scenarios I listed above.

(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  You cannot say that life on Earth would continue as normal without Mankind because you Cannot justify or prove it.

Actually, I can. There are areas of the Earth, which mankind has only recently found. When they discovered these areas, such as areas in the rain forest, uninhabited islands, empty spaces in various deserts, areas in the north, that are to cold for us, areas in the oceans that we can not go, but can send machines, all of these areas, where found with life, thriving, without mankind. Now if you spread that out, and take mankind from the rest of it, you get the same results. Just as life was here before us, and survived, it will be here, if we were not. It is easily proven.


(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Only God can because he created Earth and Mankind and he has power to do all things.

I disagree, for reasons listed above.


(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  I humbly request you to begin your argument on Does God Exist.

I had already moved on. I do not believe God exists. That is my argument for it. I see no reason to believe in God. Your God, or any other. It would be up to you to prove that God does exist. I will request though, since the arguments for our purpose in life, are easily disputed, that you stop requesting me to move on, until that debate is finished, as I am going to assume, that it is not yet.

If everyone was thinking the same thing, then no one would be thinking at all.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-17-2013, 12:18 PM
Post: #8
RE: Equal and SoldierofAllah328 debate: Does God Exist and What is The Purpose Of Life
(08-14-2013 07:22 AM)EqualAtheist Wrote:  
(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  My final answer before we move on. You said how if our purpose in life is to worship God then things farming, hunting looking after people etc etc would mean we would have to stop worshipping God in order to do these.


No, I said that if our sole purpose was to worship God, then why would these other things be needed. If we were fulfilling our sole purpose, then that would be all we need to do. If all these other things are needed, then that would change our sole purpose.

(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  But what you have to understand is that Almighty tells mankind how to live their lives and what they must do in order to a achieve Peace and reward from God.

If our sole purpose is to worship, then reward would not be needed. In fact, if we have free will, then our sole purpose is then what I claim the purpose in life to be, and that would be to give life meaning. Reward and punishment, is how humans doing things. If God is working on the same guidelines as we are, then that would be more evidence, that God, is more likely man made.

For example. If you own a company, and you have workers, then you use the same reward and punishment principle. If you work, you get paid. Thus you are rewarded. If you do not work, you are punished, thus fired, and do not get paid. That is your punishment. This is a man made concept. If God does the same thing, and uses the same man made concept, then it would reason that God is man made.


(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Over 60 verses in the holy Quran where Almighty God tells mankind how to live their daily lives.


Actually, it is the authors of the Quran, that do that, however, that is a different debate all together.


(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  In chapter 17 verse 70 "Respect all human beings irrespective of their race, religion, colour, job" also in chapter 4 verse 5 "Speak in a civilised manner in a language that is recognised by the society and is commonly used" judging by these verses you (not you personally) would come to the conclusion that God didn't create us without telling us how to live our daily lives.

So far, you have listed a great deal of Secular ideas. It goes to reason, that if you disrespect others, other will disrespect you. This was learned long before the idea of your God came about. This came before the idea of the God, that your God is based on came about. Then again, this is another debate. However, this also goes back to free will. If we have free will, given to us by God, then our sole purpose, could not be to worship, but to choose our purpose, whatever we choose, willingly to do. Which would mean, that if God created us, then our purpose, was given to us to choose what it is, with his suggestion, as to what he wants.


(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  He created us for a purpose and has told us how to live our daily lives as mentioned in the Quran.

See above, about free will. If we do not have free will, then you are correct. However, not all believe in the Quran. Not all around the time the Quran was created had access to the Quran, and there are still people to this day, that have never heard of the Quran. Yet all these people still make their own purpose, and many choose not to worship your God, or any other. These people are still kind, caring, giving, helpful, loving, peaceful people. With a purpose, they made themselves.



(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  You also said how of mankind were to disappear tis second life on Earth would just continue as if we were never here. Firstly it all comes back to reason and purpose again. There would have to be a reason and a cause for mankind to disappear off of Earth.

There would be a reason and cause. Humans destroying themselves with nuclear weapons. A virus pops up, that we can not overcome. Bacteria that is harmful to us, that we can not fight with antibiotics, because they evolved and became immune to the ones we use. The list of causes, for our ceasing to exist could be endless.


(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  As i said earlier there is no cause without effect.

What caused God? Remember, NO CAUSE WITHOUT EFFECT


(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  You would have to think WHY why would mankind suddenly just disappear off of earth for no reason.

Use any of the scenarios I listed above.

(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  You cannot say that life on Earth would continue as normal without Mankind because you Cannot justify or prove it.

Actually, I can. There are areas of the Earth, which mankind has only recently found. When they discovered these areas, such as areas in the rain forest, uninhabited islands, empty spaces in various deserts, areas in the north, that are to cold for us, areas in the oceans that we can not go, but can send machines, all of these areas, where found with life, thriving, without mankind. Now if you spread that out, and take mankind from the rest of it, you get the same results. Just as life was here before us, and survived, it will be here, if we were not. It is easily proven.


(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Only God can because he created Earth and Mankind and he has power to do all things.

I disagree, for reasons listed above.


(08-13-2013 05:46 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  I humbly request you to begin your argument on Does God Exist.

I had already moved on. I do not believe God exists. That is my argument for it. I see no reason to believe in God. Your God, or any other. It would be up to you to prove that God does exist. I will request though, since the arguments for our purpose in life, are easily disputed, that you stop requesting me to move on, until that debate is finished, as I am going to assume, that it is not yet.

If God doesn't exist

Who created you ?
Who made you from nothing
Why are you Created?
After you die what happens then, do you die and become forgotten ??
Do you like to live in such a state ?

Every human has to believe in some power to return to regarding the method of his life and to look up to in case of fear and upon death. Many human beings as I said earlier are blindly following their parents in terms of religion. The Christian is a Christian because his father is a Christian, Hindu is a Hindu Because his father is a Hindu. This Atheist (Generally speaking) is think that "My parents are religious but I don't believe in the God which they worship." Many Atheists have the mindset that because we live in the age of science and technology we don't require any scripture or any religion. All Atheists know how the Earth was created. They go by the Big Bang. The Earth initially being a primary nebula and then there was a secondary separation I.e. a Big Bang which gave rise to galaxies, stars, sun, moon and planets etc. How do they know they may say it was discovered by scientists 30 or 40 years ago. But what you have to understand is that discoveries like the big bang which was discovered 30/40 years ago was already mentioned 1400 years ago in the Quran chapter 21 verse 30 where almighty God says "Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the Earth were adjoined together and we clove them acsunder" with no machinery or technology whatsoever back then who could've mentioned this. Also people used to think that the moon gave off its own light until 100/200 years ago when scientists discovered that the moon reflects light from the sun. This is also mentioned in the Quran 1400 years ago in chapter 25 verse 61 where almighty God says "Blessed is he who placed constellations in the sky and placed therein a lamp (sun) having its own light and the moon having reflected light" who could've mentioned this 1400 years ago. There are several verses in the Quran which speak about science in chapter 51 verse 47, chapter 39 verse 21, chapter 30 verse 24, chapter 15 verse 22, chapter 23 verse 18, chapter 7 verse 17 there are over. But what you must understand is that the Quran is not a book of science S-C-I-E-N-C-E but a book of S-I-G-N-S. The Quran has over 6000 verses and 1000 of them speak about science and creation. It establishes proof about the matter of divinity from the universe the history of God's everlasting existence his oneness and completeness it also establishes proof in terms of resurrection. The religion of Islam is complete for all matters of life; it's flexible because it's close to the human nature. There isn't a single Muslim who doesn't know the signs of the universe. The universe leads him to the oneness of God Almighty. You can go on and on. Coming back to science we have come to know that plants have sex cells male and female this is mentioned in the Quran in chapter 20 verse 53.The Quran also speaks about the two types of water sweet and salty in chapter 25 verse 53. Science also tells us that it's the mountains which prevent the Earth from shaking. This is also mentioned in the Quran in chapter 78 verses 6 and 7. You can go on and on. You also said earlier that If God does exist, I do not believe we know anything about him. However this is where you're wrong. Because the Quran speaks a great detail about God himself. In fact there are 99 attributed to almighty God. The Almighty creator is the all knowing. He is fully aware of the human creation, he is all knowing of the past, present and future. This is why unless a particular person is a messenger from God he cannot bring legislations to fit every time and place. Islam conforms to the requirements and needs, it has the ability to develop without decaying over time. Islam retains its complete strength of life and flexibility and it is the religion which provided the world with the most established and affirmed legislations. Make these words a starting point. Keep looking because you'll arrive through your nature, heart and mind to God the perceiver, the initiator, the creator of all. Because you are searching for the religion which would lead and introduce you to him.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-18-2013, 07:03 AM (This post was last modified: 08-18-2013 07:04 AM by EqualAtheist.)
Post: #9
RE: Equal and SoldierofAllah328 debate: Does God Exist and What is The Purpose Of Life
(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  If God doesn't exist

Who created you ?

My parents. I know that is not the real question you meant to ask though. You mean, what created life. The number of possibilities, is mind blowing. However, I am not one to pretend that I know, so I admit that I do not. Not knowing the answer to something, is not a reason for me to believe in something else, that still really does not answer the question.


(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Who made you from nothing

As stated in my previous posts, I do not believe that anything is made from nothing. When I say everything has a cause, I mean everything. No special pleading there. If there is a God, then he would have a cause as well.


(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Why are you Created?

My parents had unprotected sexual intercourse. However, I do not believe that is really the question you are asking, you are asking the purpose in life, which has been explained in previous posts.

(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  After you die what happens then, do you die and become forgotten ??

I suspect, the same thing will happen when I die, as happened before I was born. So when I die, yes, I will be dead. If I am forgotten or not, will not really be relevant to me, because I will be dead. My body's matter and energy will be changed. I will be burned, and my ashes will end up somewhere in the world. After time, I will be forgotten.


(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Do you like to live in such a state ?

What is wrong with that state? There is nothing wrong with the state that I am living in. I accept there are things I do not, and will not understand. I accept that my time is limited. I accept that I am not needed. Which actually makes my life, that much more important to me, and makes what I teach my kids, and how I treat others, even more important.



(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Every human has to believe in some power to return to regarding the method of his life and to look up to in case of fear and upon death.

I disagree. I do not believe in some power to return to. I do not look up to something in cases of fear. What you are referring to, I believe in a coping mechanism that some people use, but not all.


(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Many human beings as I said earlier are blindly following their parents in terms of religion. The Christian is a Christian because his father is a Christian, Hindu is a Hindu Because his father is a Hindu.

A Muslim became a Muslim because his father is a Muslim. While many people do follow this trend, I do not think many follow it blindly. I think they look at what they have been taught, and then usually start learning more about it. I think people should get more credit then usually given for following a religion they where taught as children. Not everyone, just goes with what their parents taught, because their parents taught them. Many actually go on their own, and learn more about it, build their faith more, with just the foundation they where given.

Here is an analogy. Look at it like a house. Parent live in a house, that they are happy with. They feel it is a strong house, and they think it will be good for their children. So they start digging footers for a new house, and build a foundation for their children. The children then get older, and have a good and bad memories of their parents house. So they start learning all they can, and start building on top of the foundation the parents made. They see some flaws or things that can be improved, so they make their how, with the old house in mind, but better. In their mind anyway.

The only difference, for someone who switches religions, is that they do not like the house, see the house design is seriously flawed, and changed everything, including the foundation.

I do not know many people, that just move into the same house, changing nothing.



(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  This Atheist (Generally speaking) is think that "My parents are religious but I don't believe in the God which they worship." Many Atheists have the mindset that because we live in the age of science and technology we don't require any scripture or any religion.

I do not believe this at all. I think we already even discussed this in previous posts. However, I agree on the first part. All atheists do not believe in the God or gods that their parents worship. That said, I do not believe it has much to do with science and technology at first. Perhaps science helps with an Atheist thinking he is right, but I think Atheists leave their religions for much simpler reasons then science and technology. I think they leave them for reason. Meaning, they are taught something. They look into it themselves, and it does not make sense to them. For someone who switches religions, from Christian to Muslim, Muslim to Christian, Both to Atheist, Atheist to both, is done for reason. If it makes sense, you go with it. If it does not, you do not. I really do not believe science and technology has anything to do with it, until after it is done.

I myself am not highly educated in science. My knowledge in it is very basic. Yet I am an Atheist. I think science is often used, when an Atheist is trying to make points, that disagree with religion, but I do not believe that to be a sole reason someone leaves a religion. As you will show below, a person will use science to try and show how their religion is correct. Then try to use that as a conversion tactic. However, all the points you are going to list below, have been disputed, and still do not make the rest of the religion, make sense. To me anyway.



(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  All Atheists know how the Earth was created. They go by the Big Bang.

I have to disagree with this as well.



(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  The Earth initially being a primary nebula and then there was a secondary separation I.e. a Big Bang which gave rise to galaxies, stars, sun, moon and planets etc. How do they know they may say it was discovered by scientists 30 or 40 years ago. But what you have to understand is that discoveries like the big bang which was discovered 30/40 years ago was already mentioned 1400 years ago in the Quran chapter 21 verse 30 where almighty God says "Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the Earth were adjoined together and we clove them acsunder" with no machinery or technology whatsoever back then who could've mentioned this. Also people used to think that the moon gave off its own light until 100/200 years ago when scientists discovered that the moon reflects light from the sun. This is also mentioned in the Quran 1400 years ago in chapter 25 verse 61 where almighty God says "Blessed is he who placed constellations in the sky and placed therein a lamp (sun) having its own light and the moon having reflected light" who could've mentioned this 1400 years ago. There are several verses in the Quran which speak about science in chapter 51 verse 47, chapter 39 verse 21, chapter 30 verse 24, chapter 15 verse 22, chapter 23 verse 18, chapter 7 verse 17 there are over. But what you must understand is that the Quran is not a book of science S-C-I-E-N-C-E but a book of S-I-G-N-S.

Addressed above. To go point by point, would be different debates all together, which I believe we already have most, if not all on this forum already.


(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  The Quran has over 6000 verses and 1000 of them speak about science and creation. It establishes proof about the matter of divinity from the universe the history of God's everlasting existence his oneness and completeness it also establishes proof in terms of resurrection.


I am sure you believe that. That makes sense to you, and I hope you keep it.


(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  The religion of Islam is complete for all matters of life; it's flexible because it's close to the human nature.

Does this include homosexuality? Which is also part of human nature? Again, this is a whole different debate, and takes away from purpose, and if God exists.


(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  There isn't a single Muslim who doesn't know the signs of the universe. The universe leads him to the oneness of God Almighty. You can go on and on. Coming back to science we have come to know that plants have sex cells male and female this is mentioned in the Quran in chapter 20 verse 53.The Quran also speaks about the two types of water sweet and salty in chapter 25 verse 53. Science also tells us that it's the mountains which prevent the Earth from shaking. This is also mentioned in the Quran in chapter 78 verses 6 and 7. You can go on and on. You also said earlier that If God does exist, I do not believe we know anything about him. However this is where you're wrong. Because the Quran speaks a great detail about God himself. In fact there are 99 attributed to almighty God. The Almighty creator is the all knowing. He is fully aware of the human creation, he is all knowing of the past, present and future. This is why unless a particular person is a messenger from God he cannot bring legislations to fit every time and place. Islam conforms to the requirements and needs, it has the ability to develop without decaying over time. Islam retains its complete strength of life and flexibility and it is the religion which provided the world with the most established and affirmed legislations. Make these words a starting point. Keep looking because you'll arrive through your nature, heart and mind to God the perceiver, the initiator, the creator of all. Because you are searching for the religion which would lead and introduce you to him.


All of what you said, is said by most, religions. It leaves us where we started. Our purpose in life, is what we give it.

If everyone was thinking the same thing, then no one would be thinking at all.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-31-2013, 10:45 AM
Post: #10
RE: Equal and SoldierofAllah328 debate: Does God Exist and What is The Purpose Of Life
(08-18-2013 07:03 AM)EqualAtheist Wrote:  
(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  If God doesn't exist

Who created you ?

My parents. I know that is not the real question you meant to ask though. You mean, what created life. The number of possibilities, is mind blowing. However, I am not one to pretend that I know, so I admit that I do not. Not knowing the answer to something, is not a reason for me to believe in something else, that still really does not answer the question.


(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Who made you from nothing

As stated in my previous posts, I do not believe that anything is made from nothing. When I say everything has a cause, I mean everything. No special pleading there. If there is a God, then he would have a cause as well.


(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Why are you Created?

My parents had unprotected sexual intercourse. However, I do not believe that is really the question you are asking, you are asking the purpose in life, which has been explained in previous posts.

(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  After you die what happens then, do you die and become forgotten ??

I suspect, the same thing will happen when I die, as happened before I was born. So when I die, yes, I will be dead. If I am forgotten or not, will not really be relevant to me, because I will be dead. My body's matter and energy will be changed. I will be burned, and my ashes will end up somewhere in the world. After time, I will be forgotten.


(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Do you like to live in such a state ?

What is wrong with that state? There is nothing wrong with the state that I am living in. I accept there are things I do not, and will not understand. I accept that my time is limited. I accept that I am not needed. Which actually makes my life, that much more important to me, and makes what I teach my kids, and how I treat others, even more important.



(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Every human has to believe in some power to return to regarding the method of his life and to look up to in case of fear and upon death.

I disagree. I do not believe in some power to return to. I do not look up to something in cases of fear. What you are referring to, I believe in a coping mechanism that some people use, but not all.


(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  Many human beings as I said earlier are blindly following their parents in terms of religion. The Christian is a Christian because his father is a Christian, Hindu is a Hindu Because his father is a Hindu.

A Muslim became a Muslim because his father is a Muslim. While many people do follow this trend, I do not think many follow it blindly. I think they look at what they have been taught, and then usually start learning more about it. I think people should get more credit then usually given for following a religion they where taught as children. Not everyone, just goes with what their parents taught, because their parents taught them. Many actually go on their own, and learn more about it, build their faith more, with just the foundation they where given.

Here is an analogy. Look at it like a house. Parent live in a house, that they are happy with. They feel it is a strong house, and they think it will be good for their children. So they start digging footers for a new house, and build a foundation for their children. The children then get older, and have a good and bad memories of their parents house. So they start learning all they can, and start building on top of the foundation the parents made. They see some flaws or things that can be improved, so they make their how, with the old house in mind, but better. In their mind anyway.

The only difference, for someone who switches religions, is that they do not like the house, see the house design is seriously flawed, and changed everything, including the foundation.

I do not know many people, that just move into the same house, changing nothing.



(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  This Atheist (Generally speaking) is think that "My parents are religious but I don't believe in the God which they worship." Many Atheists have the mindset that because we live in the age of science and technology we don't require any scripture or any religion.

I do not believe this at all. I think we already even discussed this in previous posts. However, I agree on the first part. All atheists do not believe in the God or gods that their parents worship. That said, I do not believe it has much to do with science and technology at first. Perhaps science helps with an Atheist thinking he is right, but I think Atheists leave their religions for much simpler reasons then science and technology. I think they leave them for reason. Meaning, they are taught something. They look into it themselves, and it does not make sense to them. For someone who switches religions, from Christian to Muslim, Muslim to Christian, Both to Atheist, Atheist to both, is done for reason. If it makes sense, you go with it. If it does not, you do not. I really do not believe science and technology has anything to do with it, until after it is done.

I myself am not highly educated in science. My knowledge in it is very basic. Yet I am an Atheist. I think science is often used, when an Atheist is trying to make points, that disagree with religion, but I do not believe that to be a sole reason someone leaves a religion. As you will show below, a person will use science to try and show how their religion is correct. Then try to use that as a conversion tactic. However, all the points you are going to list below, have been disputed, and still do not make the rest of the religion, make sense. To me anyway.



(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  All Atheists know how the Earth was created. They go by the Big Bang.

I have to disagree with this as well.



(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  The Earth initially being a primary nebula and then there was a secondary separation I.e. a Big Bang which gave rise to galaxies, stars, sun, moon and planets etc. How do they know they may say it was discovered by scientists 30 or 40 years ago. But what you have to understand is that discoveries like the big bang which was discovered 30/40 years ago was already mentioned 1400 years ago in the Quran chapter 21 verse 30 where almighty God says "Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the Earth were adjoined together and we clove them acsunder" with no machinery or technology whatsoever back then who could've mentioned this. Also people used to think that the moon gave off its own light until 100/200 years ago when scientists discovered that the moon reflects light from the sun. This is also mentioned in the Quran 1400 years ago in chapter 25 verse 61 where almighty God says "Blessed is he who placed constellations in the sky and placed therein a lamp (sun) having its own light and the moon having reflected light" who could've mentioned this 1400 years ago. There are several verses in the Quran which speak about science in chapter 51 verse 47, chapter 39 verse 21, chapter 30 verse 24, chapter 15 verse 22, chapter 23 verse 18, chapter 7 verse 17 there are over. But what you must understand is that the Quran is not a book of science S-C-I-E-N-C-E but a book of S-I-G-N-S.

Addressed above. To go point by point, would be different debates all together, which I believe we already have most, if not all on this forum already.


(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  The Quran has over 6000 verses and 1000 of them speak about science and creation. It establishes proof about the matter of divinity from the universe the history of God's everlasting existence his oneness and completeness it also establishes proof in terms of resurrection.


I am sure you believe that. That makes sense to you, and I hope you keep it.


(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  The religion of Islam is complete for all matters of life; it's flexible because it's close to the human nature.

Does this include homosexuality? Which is also part of human nature? Again, this is a whole different debate, and takes away from purpose, and if God exists.


(08-17-2013 12:18 PM)SoldierofAllah328 Wrote:  There isn't a single Muslim who doesn't know the signs of the universe. The universe leads him to the oneness of God Almighty. You can go on and on. Coming back to science we have come to know that plants have sex cells male and female this is mentioned in the Quran in chapter 20 verse 53.The Quran also speaks about the two types of water sweet and salty in chapter 25 verse 53. Science also tells us that it's the mountains which prevent the Earth from shaking. This is also mentioned in the Quran in chapter 78 verses 6 and 7. You can go on and on. You also said earlier that If God does exist, I do not believe we know anything about him. However this is where you're wrong. Because the Quran speaks a great detail about God himself. In fact there are 99 attributed to almighty God. The Almighty creator is the all knowing. He is fully aware of the human creation, he is all knowing of the past, present and future. This is why unless a particular person is a messenger from God he cannot bring legislations to fit every time and place. Islam conforms to the requirements and needs, it has the ability to develop without decaying over time. Islam retains its complete strength of life and flexibility and it is the religion which provided the world with the most established and affirmed legislations. Make these words a starting point. Keep looking because you'll arrive through your nature, heart and mind to God the perceiver, the initiator, the creator of all. Because you are searching for the religion which would lead and introduce you to him.


All of what you said, is said by most, religions. It leaves us where we started. Our purpose in life, is what we give it.

Sorry for the late reply I would now like to open the floor for any questions.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  The "Benefits" of living your life as a son of God and there is no downside. PTL Gismys17 26 864 02-09-2017 07:09 PM
Last Post: PeterPants
  God is Love and Love is... (God's true purpose) World Peace Church 18 1,126 12-29-2016 05:26 PM
Last Post: Satyros
Exclamation Here is Practical Explanation about Next Life, Purpose of Human Life, ralo 58 2,844 09-14-2016 11:21 PM
Last Post: Herminator
  Universe Fine-tuned by God for Life Steveh 142 16,637 02-15-2015 01:17 AM
Last Post: vamasa
  The final Proof God does not exist! nostradamus1 15 1,229 12-06-2014 07:41 PM
Last Post: nostradamus1
  If you knew your god(s) didnt exist, would you still follow your religious morals? HeathenHero95 8 1,046 03-29-2014 01:33 PM
Last Post: Satyros
  Here is Practical Explanation about Next Life, Purpose of Human Life - Jaya Jagannath 7 1,380 10-20-2013 11:04 PM
Last Post: Huitaca
  If God exist....... Why KAYSER 26 2,176 11-11-2012 01:57 PM
Last Post: KAYSER
  if God did not exist. smellycat 17 2,481 05-16-2012 02:36 PM
Last Post: URAVIP2ME
  Life... by God palov 14 1,712 11-30-2011 12:41 PM
Last Post: hillbilly



User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)