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Every alcoholic starts as a moderate consumer
02-14-2010, 10:33 AM (This post was last modified: 02-14-2010 10:36 AM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #1
Every alcoholic starts as a moderate consumer
Muslims realise that all the detrimental consequences related to alcoholism are a proof that alcohol is a cause of numerous problems. The non-Muslims especially the Westerners have a convenient rationalization. They fracture the reality into two parts, moderate use and excessive use and keep trying to blame all problems on excessive use, while applauding the recreational value of moderate use and its other benefits. This also requires denying any possible relationship between moderate and excessive use.

"Thus unto every people have We caused their doing to seem fair." (Al Quran 6:109)

The simple fact is that every alcoholic starts as a modertate consumer of alcohol. He or she may or may not have a genetic predisposition but the reality is that if he had never tasted alcohol his vulnerability would not have been exposed.

My other thread on alcohol has already tabulated a lot of problems with both moderate and excessive use. I am not done with the list yet, I am just warming up. But do not get upset, I am not promoting Shariah Law. I only intend to educate my Christian brethren and sisters for the next 100 years, that is work of my three generations.

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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02-14-2010, 10:49 AM (This post was last modified: 02-14-2010 10:52 AM by minus459.)
Post: #2
RE: Every alcoholic starts as a moderate consumer
(02-14-2010 10:33 AM)Ahmadi Wrote:  Muslims realise that all the detrimental consequences related to alcoholism are a proof that alcohol is a cause of numerous problems. The non-Muslims especially the Westerners have a convenient rationalization. They fracture the reality into two parts, moderate use and excessive use and keep trying to blame all problems on excessive use, while applauding the recreational value of moderate use and its other benefits. This also requires denying any possible relationship between moderate and excessive use.

"Thus unto every people have We caused their doing to seem fair." (Al Quran 6:109)

The simple fact is that every alcoholic starts as a modertate consumer of alcohol. He or she may or may not have a genetic predisposition but the reality is that if he had never tasted alcohol his vulnerability would not have been exposed.

My other thread on alcohol has already tabulated a lot of problems with both moderate and excessive use. I am not done with the list yet, I am just warming up. But do not get upset, I am not promoting Shariah Law. I only intend to educate my Christian brethren and sisters for the next 100 years, that is work of my three generations.

You've finally posted the thread that you wanted to post all along. Your comments regarding your other thread are misleading at the least. But good luck with this thread.
BTW it's a given. SO WHAT?
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02-14-2010, 10:56 AM
Post: #3
RE: Every alcoholic starts as a moderate consumer
(02-14-2010 10:33 AM)Ahmadi Wrote:  Muslims realise that all the detrimental consequences related to alcoholism are a proof that alcohol is a cause of numerous problems.

Why only Muslims? Many non-Muslims live a life without alcohol, it's a bit rich assuming all Muslims are Qu'ran followers. You'll find many Muslims in the West are non-practicisng Muslims, going out clubbing, drinking and doing many unislamic things.

(02-14-2010 10:33 AM)Ahmadi Wrote:  The non-Muslims especially the Westerners have a convenient rationalization.

Yes including many non-practicisng Muslims. Over generalisation to make the Muslims seem 'better' than other human beings I say.

What's on
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02-14-2010, 11:20 AM (This post was last modified: 02-14-2010 11:23 AM by minus459.)
Post: #4
RE: Every alcoholic starts as a moderate consumer
I realise that this is an aside. But why does Allah refer to himself in passages of the Quran as WE?
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02-14-2010, 11:27 AM (This post was last modified: 02-14-2010 11:31 AM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #5
RE: Every alcoholic starts as a moderate consumer
I am not saying Muslims are better than the Christians. Allah will judge everyone in the hereafter. Almost 5-10% of the Christians do not drink and many drink so occasionally that it is as if they never drink. I know many Muslims do drink, some even excessively.

All I am saying is that alcohol has more problems than good, and it is not me saying that, the Holy Quran said that 1400 years ago.

In my previous thread through different exchanges, I drew the following conclusion.

I need to show the following:

1, High prevalence of alcohlism
2. Relationship between moderate use and alcohlism.
3. Problems related with moderate use.
4. Problems related with heavy use.

Almost all the materials that I will post will cover one of these 4 aspects. Allow me to cover all these 4 in a haphazard fashion as I go along.

I also showed in the other thread that alcohol in moderation is, at least, the cause of sleep problems and diseases that are fairly common and also of fetal alcohol syndrome tha is not very common but the results are very horrifying. So, join me in a hundred year project to educate the Christians masses. They will be better off with this information and possibly see Muslims as good friends rather than the enemy!

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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02-14-2010, 11:28 AM (This post was last modified: 02-14-2010 11:32 AM by minus459.)
Post: #6
RE: Every alcoholic starts as a moderate consumer
"Thus unto every people have We caused their doing to seem fair." (Al Quran 6:109)

Would seem to mean that the consumption of alcohol by some people is fair, YES?
So, join me in a hundred year project to educate the Christians masses. They will be better off with this information and possibly see Muslims as good friends rather than the enemy!

Why not say that you want to convert people to Islam?
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02-14-2010, 11:38 AM
Post: #7
RE: Every alcoholic starts as a moderate consumer
(02-14-2010 11:28 AM)minus459 Wrote:  "Thus unto every people have We caused their doing to seem fair." (Al Quran 6:109)

This means that humans are not comfortable of thinking of themselves as villains. Additionally, they are not happy if considered villains. So, no matter, what any one does he carries with him or her good rationalizations, always. This is beautifully demonstrated by Dale Carnegie in his book 'How to make friends and influence people.' Those chapters of his book, appear to me as commentary of this verse of the Holy Quran.

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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02-14-2010, 11:41 AM (This post was last modified: 02-14-2010 11:47 AM by minus459.)
Post: #8
RE: Every alcoholic starts as a moderate consumer
That is a real stretch, it makes no sense, what's with the WE?
Let me get this straight. That verse says that no matter what you do your intentions are always honourable? You can't possibly be serious. I murder someone but that I had good rationalizations for it, are you seriously explaining that verse as meaning THAT????
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02-14-2010, 12:00 PM (This post was last modified: 02-14-2010 01:36 PM by clarence clutterbuck.)
Post: #9
RE: Every alcoholic starts as a moderate consumer
Ahmadi Wrote:Muslims realise that all the detrimental consequences related to alcoholism are a proof that alcohol is a cause of numerous problems.


Do Muslims have a special understanding of problems associated with alcohol or do they follow their particular societal and religious norms out of tradition and habit?

Quote:They fracture the reality into two parts, moderate use and excessive use and keep trying to blame all problems on excessive use, while applauding the recreational value of moderate use and its other benefits. This also requires denying any possible relationship between moderate and excessive use.


The relationship between moderate and excessive alcohol use is that, as with food intake, moderation can become excess. It should also be remembered however, that moderate alcohol consumption is believed to confer health benefits, including improved cardiovascular health. As in all things, striking a sensible balance is desirable.

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/alcoholandhealth.html

Quote:The simple fact is that every alcoholic starts as a modertate consumer of alcohol. He or she may or may not have a genetic predisposition but the reality is that if he had never tasted alcohol his vulnerability would not have been exposed.

It is certainly true that abstention from any form of hazardous behaviour is the best risk management strategy. Life itself bears risks and is invariably fatal, therefore the safest course would be not being born.

Quote:My other thread on alcohol has already tabulated a lot of problems with both moderate and excessive use. I am not done with the list yet, I am just warming up. But do not get upset, I am not promoting Shariah Law. I only intend to educate my Christian brethren and sisters for the next 100 years, that is work of my three generations.

I'm not upset, but think that you should try various beverages, purely for research purposes naturally, and experience how pleasant drinking alcohol in moderation can be.

I'd recommend a bottle or two of Theakston's Old Peculier. Beer is better out of a bottle than a can, in my honest opinion.

I may do some further research myself on this matter later..

[Image: oldpeculier-1-1.jpg]
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02-14-2010, 12:19 PM (This post was last modified: 02-14-2010 12:22 PM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #10
RE: Every alcoholic starts as a moderate consumer
(02-14-2010 12:00 PM)clarence clutterbuck Wrote:  
Ahmadi Wrote:Muslims realise that all the detrimental consequences related to alcoholism are a proof that alcohol is a cause of numerous problems.

Do Muslims have a special understanding of problems associated with alcohol or do they follow their particular societal and religious norms out of tradition and habit?

Muslims do not have any special claim to wisdom, but in this instance their vision is not clouded, as they are not bombardied with centuries of rationalizations on the issue. They see all alcohol related issues as one unit. The Westerners divide it into two groups put all the bad stuff in the group labeled as alcoholism and then push that group out of their daily consciousness!

Let me also thank minus for advising me to open a separate and a new thread. Let me also amplify another comment from the above post:

"It is certainly true that abstention from any form of hazardous behaviour is the best risk management strategy." Let me just add always weigh the risk benefit ratio, that is always a guiding principle in the field of medicine.

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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