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Existence: The Eternal Univeral Set
04-07-2010, 01:32 AM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2010 02:13 AM by TheJackel.)
Post: #1
Existence: The Eternal Univeral Set
Before I go into deep scientific detail I will provide you with an example and the basic scientific summary in Layman's terms. Here I will use the "I" argument as the example to the scientific explanation. The posts following the OP will go deep into the heart of things, so I hope you have some time on your hands Wink

'I' Argument:

The word "I" is philosophically spiritual, but the word itself is meaningless without all the other information that gives "I" an identity! There is a reason why self-identity and self-awareness is on a need to know basis.. If you do not know that you exist or that you are in existence, you wouldn't be self-aware! "I" is only reference to the knowledge of one's self! Without that knowledge or information to which is the base of inquiry to one's self, there could be no ability to have consciousness.. This is why life is observer matter capable of processing observable information that is all material! The mind is made from the same substance as everything else is.. We are all connected on a quantum level.. We are all to glasses made from the same pile of sand!

To say a mind can be non-material is simply impossible. At best, it's only out of ignorance, or the inability to confront the cold truth of what existence, reality really are.. This is typical due to the self preservation mechanism that gives you a reason to ignore the following argument in order to continue to believe obvious impossibilities of a non-material existence.. Reality is scary, thus fantasy and fallacy is a means to ignore reality to give one's self comfort from the fear of death, or It's based on the fear of losing consciousness or existence as a being.. So keep in mind that some will never accept or address the this opposing argument. Thus this means that your greatest fears might actually be true! Thus, if you are not interested in facts, opposing arguments, or evidence, I would strongly suggest you not read any further.

--

REALITY HITS HARD!:


UNIVERSAL SET: a universal set is a set which contains all objects, including itself. This is also where all other objects are product subsets made from the substance of the universal set to where the Universal set is the substance of itself.

There are only three things that can represent this to solve infinite regress, and these three things can only be Existence, information, and energy to where they are essentially all one in the same. This is where energy represents the Universal substance of existence and information.. An ever progressive and regressive flow of energy, or an ever progressive and regressive flow of information. Existence, energy, and information are essentially the same coin! Existence is the informational description we give to this Eternal informational Universe where energy is the universal substance! This is where Existence contains itself and all things that are in or of existence! These things are all subset products of existence comprised of the substance of existence known as energy! You, me, your dog, the stars, existence, information, or even empty space or reality is all comprised of energy.

E=MC2 means that Energy can covert to matter and matter can be converted to Energy! Matter is essentially solidified energy or photon energy.. So to better grasp this, all we need to do is watch a video on the 4 stages of matter!

Video: The 4 Stages of matter


Conclusion:


Existence is A phenomenal reality of physical self-osculating, self-organizing energy that makes you, me, the stars, matter, mass, and itself possible.. And it must following the energy scale to where all things begin and end at zero!.. An ever progressive and regressive flow of energy..

Thus, energy = the substance of information, mass, matter, existence, and itself without contradiction.. A true universal set of all sets!.. This is compliant to all aspects of existence, life, time, experience, complexity, or conscious observation of reality.. All minds are subset products of existence and are all material physical products and processes!

-
Note: the following posts will address the scientific aspects of this argument. Please wait to reply until I am done posting..This might take some time Smile
INFORMATION:

Information is any sensory input or output! All mass, matter, and energy is information! This includes the sum total of existence and any place or reality! Hence, all things retain and output information regardless if it has intelligence, awareness, or a self consciousness or not!

------------

UNDERSTANDING INFORMATION FORMATION:


We human beings seem unable understand information formation because we think information has to be the result of processing by something with intelligence... Since our brains are developed to process information, it can not quantify in many cases the idea of information developing it's own structures and meanings through the combining, or the merging of other pieces of information in a process called formation.. A cause and effect process vs a calculated intelligent process.. We also seem to fail to understand that anything or place of existence, or anything in or of existence could be considered a form of information, or a source of information.. All places and things of existence have information to offer! Thus all things can be considered pieces of information themselves in a representative or interactive sense. Hence, information isn't just merely a concept of data or mathematics! Information is matter, mass, color, energy, or simply existence or place of existence... ALL THINGS OUTPUT information and are at least 1 directional in the flow of information. Color is two directional, and humans are conscious 2 directional communicative organisms.

1 Directional simple output:

A rock still puts out information of what it is! A rock can tell you anything you want to know about it so long as you are capable of perceiving it, collecting it, processing it, and observing it! Hence the rock has an output of information! Your senses are mere interments of translation to give interpretation of the information it receives from a source of output!

2 Directional input & output:

Color can be a single color, or it can merge with another color to produce a different color.. Same goes with any kind of color pattern.. Color is two directional because it can exchange information with itself and output that in an infinite number of patterns. Thus, color or energy can be considered 2 directional. A 2 directional example also shows why energy can be converted into matter and matter can be converted into energy.. Hence, see Rock above.. However, under chemical, biological, kinetic, or thermal forces the rock can also become 2 directional.

3 Directional:

Life, or active matter with the ability to have cognitive dynamics to where self-organization and self-osculation of mass, matter and energy begin to exhibit self-cognitive direction, or the ability to adapt, and increase in cognitive behavioral dynamics to self and environment.

Example:


Enzymes:

A strong diffusional mixing and short delivery times typical for micrometer and sub-micrometer reaction volumes lead to a special situations of self osculation where the turnover times of individual enzyme molecules become the largest characteristic time scale of the chemical kinetics. Under these conditions, populations of cross-regulating allosteric enzymes form molecular networks that exhibit various kinds of self-organized coherent collective dynamics. Here we can see a 3 directional flow of information that leads to the self-directional functionality or processing of other mass, matter, and energy.

---
<---- not done yet Smile
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04-07-2010, 03:27 AM
Post: #2
RE: Existence: The Eternal Univeral Set
QUANTUM ELECTRODYNAMIC PHYSICS:

Here we are going to discuss Quantum physics.. But first lets get you started on the basic principles of Quantum Electrodynamic Physics with a couple of videos. One will be on how it pertains to our existence and the other on how it pertains to consciousness..

Video: Quantum Electrodynamics

Video : Quantum Consciousness PT1

Video: Quantum Consciousness PT2

To start with we will first examine Quantum Consciousness and how it applies to our understanding in regards to how our minds actually function or work. Below is a question a theist had asked me about this subject. And here is what he asked:

Q1:
Quote:I guess from the beginning I was curious about self-awareness and if there's any scientific explanation for it. I feel like it points to something peculiar and insightful that shouldn't be ignored. So since science is always claiming to be the only place we can find "real" answers, I was curious what science has to say

Q2:
Quote:What part of the video even talks about an explanation for the origins of consciousness? I kinda lost my ability to pay attention when it talked about "wishing" for more 1s that a machine would produce more 1s....did they even mention the name of the experiment so that people can research it themselves? All I caught is that it had been performed 100s of times with the same results; the same can be said of poorly run experiments which 'prove' prayer works.

A:
The origins of consciousness relies on certain parts of the mind, and It's a proven medical fact that consciousness can not be viable if certain parts of the mind are removed from the big picture. Thus under full sedation, no consciousness is possible. In this regard we all lose our ability to perceive a reality. The videos address this in terms of quantum physics, mechanics and quantum computation! The coin toss you are referring to only represents probability, this is because there is no such thing as an actual random number! There is only the probability of any given number to be selected. Quantum Electrodynamics shows the differences between cause and effect and calculated processes on a quantum level. This is where Cause and effect still achieves a result, and still achieves levels of higher complexity without calculation because energy self-osculates at Zero base energy. It's stating that consciousness must first be formed through a cause and effect process that leads to the formation of a level of structural complexity capable of processing other bits of information in order to become an observer of a preexisting reality from which itself is comprised of. This is similar to the notion that you can not have a 3D object until such object is formed into existence through the 0D,1D, and 2Dimensional planes of existence.. Hence, all things start from Zero or 0,1 as discussed above! This means a higher consciousness can not preexist a lover level of consciousness! Hence, a higher level of energy can not create a zero level of energy when it's self relies on all the levels of energy below itself just so itself can exist! This means that divinity is an evolutionary process!!
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04-07-2010, 03:37 AM
Post: #3
RE: Existence: The Eternal Univeral Set
*yawn*

If you're actually a physicist, you're making all of us look bad. And if you're not, go take some courses and get past Physics 205.

And stop assuming all theistic religions are the same, or have creation. It makes you look stupid.
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04-07-2010, 03:50 AM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2010 04:43 AM by TheJackel.)
Post: #4
RE: Existence: The Eternal Univeral Set
Example:

A 100 story building's 100th floor can not stand 100 stories in the air on it's own without the 99 other floors below it to support it! Divinity is actually a scale of evolution and is not possible to preexist at it's highest level!

Q:
Quote:What is nothing then? I don't get how you get something from zero or nothing.. How is energy a zero base energy as you suggested?


A:
There are two ways the word nothing is used.. it's either the scientific way, or a means to describe something that is absent to which you expect to be there.. Hence, it's use is greatly dependent on the context in which you use it..

Example:

You can say nothing is in my coffee cup, however the nothing is only reference to what is absent.. Hence, where is the coffee that I expect to be in my cup? Well, it's in the coffee pot! ... However in a scientific context is your empty cup really empty? Can you take the cup and poor the space out of it? Can you empty the cup of it's existence?.. No you can't because there will always be something in the cup.. This is true even if you smash the cup because the cup itself is made of existence and space! and what is empty space made of?
Well, lets take a closer look at this. What you perceive to be nothing really is a no-thing!.. And perceptually you can understand, interact, and see what empty space is... You can take any point in space and regress to back to zero or (0,1), or zero base energy.

Confusing right?


So following the scientific context, a real simple way I can explain consciousness is that zero base information (energy) self-osculates and formulates an informational structure that can with enough complexity as a structure can process other pieces of information including itself!. The example here being that quantum computation does this in qbits that can process information in terms of probability, possibility, or in pure abstract. This is the driving force behind the butterfly effect, and Quantum Electrodynamics. This is where zero is in the form of a qbit (both 0,1).. So unlike binary code where the classic bit is either a 0 or a 1. two separate switches or elements, Qbits are both 0 and 1.. Quantifiably that means you can with enough complexity achieve consciousness, and the probability of any pattern arising from zero without the need for intelligent intervention. IBM has also proven this with the 4 atom quantum computer.

Link: Qbit - Wiki

Key:

1) 0 = zero = Qbit = (0,1) = energy = a No -thing (base self-osculating energy)

(0,1) = a no-thing:

0 = no other objects or complexities higher than zero
1= the only object even if there are an infinite number of other zero's (0,1)'s or points in space.. Because it's only relative to it's own point in space..

2) Energy Progression:

0 -> X =
energy scale: 0 - infinity?
complexity scale: 0 - infinity ?
divinity scale: 0 - ?
time scale: 0 -> ? , or 0 -> infinity?
dimensional scale: 0D -> XD
formation (applies to all of the above except 0)
progression (applies to all of the above except 0)
D-time progression (see dimensional scale)
increase in complexity (see complexity scale)

3) Energy Regression / decay:

X -> 0 =
energy scale: X? - > 0?
complexity scale: X? - > 0?
divinity scale: X? - > 0?
time scale: X? - > 0?
Decay (applies to all of the above)
regression (applies to all of the above)
D-time regression / space time / Traditional time (see time scale)
decrease in complexity (might apply to all of the above)

4) non-existence / non-material / impossible:

(0,0)
-1 energy
-1 Dimensional
- can not be a person place or thing (noun), or can not be mass, matter, and energy in the literal sense
SOLVING INFINITE REGRESS:

And Quantum Electrodynamic Physics points in this very direction to where -1 dimensional/energy existence = impossible. Thus, infinite regress is solved by a 0dimensional loop to where there is no outside to existence. You can represent infinite containment with two loops that make no out side of existence possible by a progressive and regressive flow of energy. You can label these as Progression and Regression.

Progression = the base of existence known as Zero (a no-thing), or the 0dimensional plane to where -1D is impossible and can only lead back to 0D, and 1D. .0,1 = a no-thing. Thus dimensional representation of formation is represented as an increase of dimensional complexity looks like the following:

0D -> 1D-> 2D-> 3D-> 4D-> XD


Regression = the opposite end of the loop to where all things regress back to 0, or dimensional complexity. When you add this to the above formula of progression (0D -> 1D-> 2D-> 3D-> 4D-> XD), you can then see a continuous progressive and regressive flow of energy. This represents the other side of existence to where there is no outside of existence. By adding the two models together, the complete model of infinite containment looks like this :

0D -> 1D-> 2D-> 3D-> 4D-> XD -> 4D-> 3D-> 2D-> 1D-> 0D


I can also represent this model in the real world to show infinite containment. Between every number there can be an infinite number of numbers. you can take 1,2,3 for example and get :

1.33333-> to 2.3333-> to 3.33333-> X.xxxx

this is where the main number represents a dimensional plane of existence (1D, 2D, 3D, 4D), and any number in between these dimensional planes of existence (.33333) represents any thing in each dimensional plane that are comprised of, or are in all the other dimensions combined. This can represent complete infinite containment to where no exit is plausible, and non-existence is impossible. It's fits the notion of an eternal element without creation.. A true universal set of all sets without contradiction... This is irregardless if the Universe is a spherical, or a flat universe. This would make the edges finite.So i will now put this into a model the correlates to "TIME" so we can understand how time actually works according to existence as a whole.
HOW TIME WORKS:

A time model of existence that directly correlates the two models of a flat universe, and a spherical universe described above.

1) DIMENSIONAL TIME:

The dimensional Time Scale directly relates with space-time, and dictates traditional time..Existence is timeless in regards to traditional time, and this is under the notion that non-existence is impossible to be a person place or thing of existence. So you can assume "no-time" applies to existence at the point of Origin, or at the point of Zero (0 dimensional). This means anything of higher complexity than zero = the future, or a process of progression to higher complexity based on the sequencing and structuring of the universal substance known as energy. Here zero = no time, and 1 = the eternal element not bound to time. Hence, a 3D object can not exist without the 0 dimensional plane of existence! This means that a 3D object is an object in the future that progresses from Zero time (Zero Dimensional) to 3 dimensional time!

2) traditional time:

This only applies with any sort of significance to something within process. Such as an awareness, life, memory, or a clock. This also means that all mass matter and energy above the complexity level of Zero is in process or is subject to decay back to zero!

3) Space time:

is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single continuum. Spacetime is usually interpreted with space being three-dimensional and time playing the role of a fourth dimension that is of a different sort from the spatial dimensions. This also effects traditional time, and directly relates to the dimensional time scale

TIME CONCLUSION:


*Part 1:

Dimensional time is time that loops/cycles vs going ever backwards! This is where traditional time has no major significance to existence as a whole. So all that traditional time is, is a measurement system much like that of a ruler to measure how long a process remains in process. It only has a significance when it's applied to understanding of the length of time between the starting and ending points of any given process in process. If there is no starting or ending point to said process, traditional time becomes irrelevant. Thus Zero is not bound to Traditional time.

*Part 2:

Dimensional time and space time together equal actual time. formation to decay and back again can be considered actual progression and regression of time. Thus to increase in dimensional complexity is to move forward in time, and to Decay in dimensional complexity is to move backwards in time. So the state at which something exists is representative of the time frame to which it exists in. The O Dimensional plane represents "Zero time" , this is to which a beginning begins and an end ends. So if existence is a progressive and regressive flow of time there is no going back forever in time to revisit a moment of history.. Things get cycled like the surface of the Earth. Thus The dimensional time model looks like this:

0D -> 1D -> 2D-> 3D-> 4D -> XD -> 4D-> 3D-> 2D -> 1D-> 0D

So this means everything eventually decays dimensionally back to 0D where it becomes borrowed energy to be used for the creation of a new. And this is how Quantum Electrodynamics works!.. Hence, back to 0,1 (no-thing). So a Looping or Cycling dimensional time model looks like this:

0D -> 1D -> 2D-> 3D-> 4D -> XD -> 4D-> 3D-> 2D -> 1D-> 0D -> 1D -> 2D-> 3D-> 4D -> XD -> 4D-> 3D-> 2D -> 1D-> 0D -> 1D -> 2D-> 3D-> 4D -> XD -> 4D-> 3D-> 2D -> 1D-> 0D -> infinity

*Part 3:

So can the past forever go back in time? Only in memory provided you were immortal, or if the past is forever recorded and not forgotten. However, this wouldn't mean that you can literally ever go back in time physically! Hence, duplication is required to keep a process in process! And this is why life must replicate itself. This is DT's correlation to traditional time. So eventually all traces of the past decay back to 0T/0D, especially since exact duplication decays over time and transforms into something else. Thus no story will ever remain the same, no pattern will ever retain its pattern.. Traditional time is then subject to dimensional time decay, and can only be averted by exact duplication. This is where duplication will only pro-long it's eventual decay. Hence, you can only sustain a process in a dimensional limbo by duplication. And this is why living organisms must reproduce in order to stay in process.
(04-07-2010 03:37 AM)Aingeal Wrote:  *yawn*

If you're actually a physicist, you're making all of us look bad. And if you're not, go take some courses and get past Physics 205.

And stop assuming all theistic religions are the same, or have creation. It makes you look stupid.

First off, what I am posting here is can best be described as layman's terms.. Hence, I am not going to post physics calculations.. Nobody is going to understand it here.

2ndly this thread was in response to a request to answer a question to which was being demanded to be answered or addressed.

3rdly this not not meant to address all theistic ideological constructs.. Hence you just made your self look stupid..

4thly, I would love to see you apply any physics without energy.. Something you might want to learn about in physics 205.. There is a common misconception in many physics classes of what nothing really is.. Hence, the classification to which is emerging is the zero base energy.. Something we can't currently measure.. Good luck using calculations without an origin or starting point. zero plays a key role in understanding our world..
Aingeal

And since you are the self proclaimed physics major here, you can do us all favor and explain to us in physics what nothing is. or what the solution to infinite regress is. Wink I'm sure you can theoretically explain the quantum foam, and anti-particle and particle creation from nothing, which oddly is being referred to as an actual noun or thing. So you are up to bat here.. Make sure you keep it in terms so everyone here can understand, you don't want to insult anybody's intelligence here.
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04-07-2010, 05:55 AM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2010 06:15 AM by TheJackel.)
Post: #5
RE: Existence: The Eternal Univeral Set
Wow Its late :o, I have some serious typos up there lol.. Ugg and I got something wrong in regards to traditional time.. but to hell with it Tongue I'm going to bed and I will address it later Smile Aingeal, I'm looking forward to your input or even corrective input on this subject. Have a good night Smile
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04-07-2010, 07:08 AM
Post: #6
RE: Existence: The Eternal Univeral Set
just answer the question...............surely not too dificult for one who is omniscient?

????????????????
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04-07-2010, 12:13 PM
Post: #7
RE: Existence: The Eternal Univeral Set
(04-07-2010 07:08 AM)kevlar Wrote:  just answer the question...............surely not too dificult for one who is omniscient?

Kevlar, there is no being capable of being "omniscient" and nor would that invalidate my answer to the question "where does existence begin". Hence, you do not need to be omniscient to make such an accurate observation.. Hence, deductible logic alone will lead you to the same conclusion.. Applying infinite regress and answering the question to solve what is the "Universal Set" is not very difficult to do,. omniscient implies solipsism and that simply is impossible..

If you are going to resort to playing circular games of stupidity please don't bother replying. Your question was answered and you either need to get reading comprehension skills or need to stop playing coy..

I suggest you take the time to understand that existence can't come from a negative..It can not come from a non-material -1 existence. or -1 dimensional plane.. You can not be outside dimensional complexity and exist period! It doesn't take genius or one to be omniscient to figure that out.
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04-07-2010, 10:58 PM
Post: #8
RE: Existence: The Eternal Univeral Set
Kevlar I believe I know where you are coming from.. I think you are referring to a single point in space where existence would begin.. This is not how it works.. Hence, if existence has always existed and is infinite there is no central point of zero because existence never had a "beginning" in the sense to which you are referring to. The premise to the post above has to do with any point in space or any one point of infinite points..

Example:

You can take any point in space and infinitely expand from that point and it doesn't matter where your point begins. So we can take a sphere and draw several lines through the center of it from all angles. The point at which all lines converge is the point of zero.. This point being of substance itself (energy) is apart of the sphere and what makes the sphere possible.. Hence, if the point of convergence or zero did not exist, the sphere could also not exist... So you can not collapse the sphere into a negative existence, you can only collapse the sphere to the point of convergence, zero, or zero energy.
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04-08-2010, 03:38 AM
Post: #9
RE: Existence: The Eternal Univeral Set
(04-07-2010 10:58 PM)TheJackel Wrote:  Kevlar I believe I know where you are coming from.. I think you are referring to a single point in space where existence would begin.. This is not how it works.. Hence, if existence has always existed and is infinite there is no central point of zero because existence never had a "beginning" in the sense to which you are referring to. The premise to the post above has to do with any point in space or any one point of infinite points..

Example:

You can take any point in space and infinitely expand from that point and it doesn't matter where your point begins. So we can take a sphere and draw several lines through the center of it from all angles. The point at which all lines converge is the point of zero.. This point being of substance itself (energy) is apart of the sphere and what makes the sphere possible.. Hence, if the point of convergence or zero did not exist, the sphere could also not exist... So you can not collapse the sphere into a negative existence, you can only collapse the sphere to the point of convergence, zero, or zero energy.

I think that the bulb may have a slight glow, but it needs to be a lot brighter yet.

????????????????
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04-08-2010, 05:32 AM (This post was last modified: 04-08-2010 05:43 AM by TheJackel.)
Post: #10
RE: Existence: The Eternal Univeral Set
(04-08-2010 03:38 AM)kevlar Wrote:  
(04-07-2010 10:58 PM)TheJackel Wrote:  Kevlar I believe I know where you are coming from.. I think you are referring to a single point in space where existence would begin.. This is not how it works.. Hence, if existence has always existed and is infinite there is no central point of zero because existence never had a "beginning" in the sense to which you are referring to. The premise to the post above has to do with any point in space or any one point of infinite points..

Example:

You can take any point in space and infinitely expand from that point and it doesn't matter where your point begins. So we can take a sphere and draw several lines through the center of it from all angles. The point at which all lines converge is the point of zero.. This point being of substance itself (energy) is apart of the sphere and what makes the sphere possible.. Hence, if the point of convergence or zero did not exist, the sphere could also not exist... So you can not collapse the sphere into a negative existence, you can only collapse the sphere to the point of convergence, zero, or zero energy.

I think that the bulb may have a slight glow, but it needs to be a lot brighter yet.

It seems like you are trying to deny this while grudgedly thinking about it.. That comment tells me a lot here because if this is all you have left to argue then it's just resorting to circular thinking and responses because you don't want to address the issue, or can't address it. So, you must define your question since you seem to be hiding a mysterious perception of the meaning "where does existence begin" .. Enlighten us Smile I would love to see you logically make an argument vs making circular comments.. You can either address the argument or you can't.. And I can clearly see that you can't do that here.

Calling something a slight glow isn't going to cut it Kevlar., you are going to have to explain yourself and how it relates the the information I provided you..And that is dependent on the fact that you even had bothered to actually read the OP.
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