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Extending the olive branch
02-17-2010, 09:16 PM (This post was last modified: 02-17-2010 09:18 PM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #1
Extending the olive branch
After reading a good suggestion by Zagreus, I have decided to tone down for at least a month for now.

I will try my best to avoid talking about the dogmas of Christianity. Rest of the christianity I love and I could talk about that and Jewish prophets with as much zeal and love as any Christain or Jew.

Let us talk about the positve stuff of our own religion trying to communicate without being critical as much as possible. The Holy Quran had ordained 4 sacred months in a year so that tribal warfare could be restrained and cooler heads prevail. I am getting part of my inspiration from that idea, that every so often there should be a cooling period.

So, in this struggle with the pen, I am waiving a white flag of truce and peace! I hope this goodwill will be reciprocated by all.

May God's Grace be with you all!

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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02-17-2010, 10:55 PM
Post: #2
RE: Extending the olive branch
(02-17-2010 09:16 PM)Ahmadi Wrote:  After reading a good suggestion by Zagreus, I have decided to tone down for at least a month for now.

I will try my best to avoid talking about the dogmas of Christianity. Rest of the christianity I love and I could talk about that and Jewish prophets with as much zeal and love as any Christain or Jew.

Let us talk about the positve stuff of our own religion trying to communicate without being critical as much as possible. The Holy Quran had ordained 4 sacred months in a year so that tribal warfare could be restrained and cooler heads prevail. I am getting part of my inspiration from that idea, that every so often there should be a cooling period.

So, in this struggle with the pen, I am waiving a white flag of truce and peace! I hope this goodwill will be reciprocated by all.

May God's Grace be with you all!

Oh, good for you, Ahmadi, for adopting a Christian in attitude. Wink
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02-18-2010, 12:32 AM (This post was last modified: 02-18-2010 12:35 AM by biomystic.)
Post: #3
RE: Extending the olive branch
Alas, I myself cannot join you in calling a time out from jihad in the religious Arena, I've got work to do as a prophesy bearer who needs the Garden ground cleared of religious weeds. But I do appreciate the your gesture of good faith. My Ahmadiyyah Muslim friend and I remain friends because we stop at the point of unresolvable conflicts between our religious views and rely instead on pure goodwill between friends both believing in the best of God in our two religious belief systems.
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02-18-2010, 06:35 AM (This post was last modified: 02-18-2010 06:35 AM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #4
RE: Extending the olive branch
"And who is better in speech than he/she who invites men to God and does good works and says, ‘I am surely of those who submit?’ And good and evil are not alike. Repel evil with that which is the best. And lo, he between whom and thyself was enmity will become as though he were a warm friend. But none attains to this save those who are steadfast; and none attains to this save those who possess a large share of good. Should an incitement from Satan incite thee, then seek refuge in Allah. Surely He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing." (Al Quran 41:34-37)

We could all try to achieve this ideal!

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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02-18-2010, 05:36 PM (This post was last modified: 02-18-2010 05:41 PM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #5
RE: Extending the olive branch
Sometimes the East is presented as separate from the West, Islam is presented as a separate civilization from that of Christianity but that is the vision and paradigm of those who will divide and rule. The unifying paradigm is that of understanding the three great monotheistic religions as the Abrahmic faiths or the faiths of his two great sons Isaac and Ishmael. When the prophet Muhammad, may peace be upon him, had only a handful of followers in Makkah and they were bitterly persecuted by the polytheist Makkans the king to give them shelter was no other than the Christian King Negus of Ethiopia. When Europe was slumbering in the dark ages who educated the founding fathers of Renaissance? It was the Muslim Universities of Spain and Baghdad. The history of these three religions is for ever intertwined with each other. One can hope that our better days as monotheists and as a species are ahead of us as the globe changes into a global village. The ever increasing closeness and proximity of human race can be seen in the person of President Barack Hussein Obama. A proud Christian with a Muslim name, born in USA, grew up in Indonesia and his paternal grand mother, a Muslim still living in Kenya.

The first commandment to the first of the three great Abrahmic faiths was, ―You shall have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:2). The Christian version of this commandment is, "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12:29). After this fundamental commandment, the New Testament tells us, "The second most important commandment is: Love your neighbor as yourself" (Mark 12:31).

In this era of space travel, the term neighbour has taken a global dimension. So the human compassion does not know any religious or national boundaries. Most Christian and Muslim philosophers will agree that the concept of 'Loving your neighbour‘ in this day and age needs to be extended to the whole of humanity.

The Holy Quran highlights the service to fellow humans at numerous occasions, "Slacken not in serving your fellow beings." (4:105) Again, "Indeed, Allah is with those who are righteous and those who do good to others." (16:129). Yet again, "Surely, the mercy of Allah is near those who do good to others." (7:57)

If we try to live the first commandment without living up to the second most important commandment we fail miserably, in all dimensions. As is the saying:

I sought my soul,
But could not see,
I sought my God,
But He eluded me,
I sought my brother,
and found all three.

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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02-18-2010, 05:58 PM (This post was last modified: 02-18-2010 06:00 PM by biomystic.)
Post: #6
RE: Extending the olive branch
(02-18-2010 05:36 PM)Ahmadi Wrote:  Sometimes the East is presented as separate from the West, Islam is presented as a separate civilization from that of Christianity but that is the vision and paradigm of those who will divide and rule. The unifying paradigm is that of understanding the three great monotheistic religions as the Abrahmic faiths or the faiths of his two great sons Isaac and Ishmael. When the prophet Muhammad, may peace be upon him, had only a handful of followers in Makkah and they were bitterly persecuted by the polytheist Makkans the king to give them shelter was no other than the Christian King Negus of Ethiopia. When Europe was slumbering in the dark ages who educated the founding fathers of Renaissance? It was the Muslim Universities of Spain and Baghdad. The history of these three religions is for ever intertwined with each other. One can hope that our better days as monotheists and as a species are ahead of us as the globe changes into a global village. The ever increasing closeness and proximity of human race can be seen in the person of President Barack Hussein Obama. A proud Christian with a Muslim name, born in USA, grew up in Indonesia and his paternal grand mother, a Muslim still living in Kenya.

The first commandment to the first of the three great Abrahmic faiths was, ―You shall have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:2). The Christian version of this commandment is, "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12:29). After this fundamental commandment, the New Testament tells us, "The second most important commandment is: Love your neighbor as yourself" (Mark 12:31).

In this era of space travel, the term neighbour has taken a global dimension. So the human compassion does not know any religious or national boundaries. Most Christian and Muslim philosophers will agree that the concept of 'Loving your neighbour‘ in this day and age needs to be extended to the whole of humanity.

The Holy Quran highlights the service to fellow humans at numerous occasions, "Slacken not in serving your fellow beings." (4:105) Again, "Indeed, Allah is with those who are righteous and those who do good to others." (16:129). Yet again, "Surely, the mercy of Allah is near those who do good to others." (7:57)

If we try to live the first commandment without living up to the second most important commandment we fail miserably, in all dimensions. As is the saying:

I sought my soul,
But could not see,
I sought my God,
But He eluded me,
I sought my brother,
and found all three.

But how does a Muslim call a Hindu "brother" when his Islamic religion condemns him to hell for being polytheistic? The only way to world peace is to end the Abrahamic falsehoods that want to monopolize worship of God by condemning other beliefs.

I urge you, Ahmadi, to prepare yourself for the End Times of Abraham by the rediscovery of Vedic influence on the foundational story of Abraham. I see that you are afraid to think about this as you and fellow Muslims avoid this issue posted by me on RF. Hiding from historical truth will never work. You will have to confront this information sooner or later and make appropriate judgments on the wisdom of following a man who Allah never told this to:

Abraham= Brahma
Sarah= Sarasvati
Hagar= Ghaggar-Hakra
Melchizedek= Malik-Sadaksina

Coincidence of names between Vedic sources and Hebrew stories is statistically so improbable that logic is forced to conclude Hebrews and Muslims following the Hebrew model borrowed from ancient Brahminism.
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02-18-2010, 07:19 PM (This post was last modified: 02-18-2010 07:20 PM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #7
RE: Extending the olive branch
Have you ever wondered, in my more than 550 posts here, I have been almost exclusively talking to the Christian brethren and sisters. I have not generally engaged fellow Muslims, Buddhists or Hindus? Why this favoritism on my part?

Because the Holy Quran says, "And thou shalt assuredly find those who say, ‘We are Christians,’ to be the nearest of them in love to the believers. That is because amongst them are savants and monks and because they are not proud." (Al Quran 5:83)

Also because the name of Jesus Christ is mentioned numerous times in the Holy Quran and a chapter is named after mother Mary in the Holy Quran. Additionally mother Mary and adoptive mother of Moses are presented as role models for both Muslim men and women. (Al Quran 66:12-13) Yet, sometimes uninformed accuse that Islam does not treat women equally. Please don't do that!

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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02-18-2010, 10:25 PM
Post: #8
RE: Extending the olive branch
(02-18-2010 07:19 PM)Ahmadi Wrote:  Have you ever wondered, in my more than 550 posts here, I have been almost exclusively talking to the Christian brethren and sisters. I have not generally engaged fellow Muslims, Buddhists or Hindus? Why this favoritism on my part?

Because the Holy Quran says, "And thou shalt assuredly find those who say, ‘We are Christians,’ to be the nearest of them in love to the believers. That is because amongst them are savants and monks and because they are not proud." (Al Quran 5:83)

Also because the name of Jesus Christ is mentioned numerous times in the Holy Quran and a chapter is named after mother Mary in the Holy Quran. Additionally mother Mary and adoptive mother of Moses are presented as role models for both Muslim men and women. (Al Quran 66:12-13) Yet, sometimes uninformed accuse that Islam does not treat women equally. Please don't do that!

You completely ignored my post. Why are you afraid to express your opinions on hard issues? Please don't do that! If your religion is so superior, you should be able to answer any questions of logic put to you. Here's another one: Why don't you answer why Muslims are treating women like dogs to be whipped in Malaysia for drinking beer if women are to be treated equally. We don't hear much about Muslims who imbibe which we all know happens being caned in public. Why is that? And why if women are so equal in Islam are women forced to imprison themselves in their own clothing in so many Muslim countries? How many imams are women, Ahmadi?
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02-19-2010, 03:23 AM
Post: #9
RE: Extending the olive branch
(02-18-2010 10:25 PM)biomystic Wrote:  
(02-18-2010 07:19 PM)Ahmadi Wrote:  Have you ever wondered, in my more than 550 posts here, I have been almost exclusively talking to the Christian brethren and sisters. I have not generally engaged fellow Muslims, Buddhists or Hindus? Why this favoritism on my part?

Because the Holy Quran says, "And thou shalt assuredly find those who say, ‘We are Christians,’ to be the nearest of them in love to the believers. That is because amongst them are savants and monks and because they are not proud." (Al Quran 5:83)

Also because the name of Jesus Christ is mentioned numerous times in the Holy Quran and a chapter is named after mother Mary in the Holy Quran. Additionally mother Mary and adoptive mother of Moses are presented as role models for both Muslim men and women. (Al Quran 66:12-13) Yet, sometimes uninformed accuse that Islam does not treat women equally. Please don't do that!

You completely ignored my post. Why are you afraid to express your opinions on hard issues? Please don't do that! If your religion is so superior, you should be able to answer any questions of logic put to you. Here's another one: Why don't you answer why Muslims are treating women like dogs to be whipped in Malaysia for drinking beer if women are to be treated equally. We don't hear much about Muslims who imbibe which we all know happens being caned in public. Why is that? And why if women are so equal in Islam are women forced to imprison themselves in their own clothing in so many Muslim countries? How many imams are women, Ahmadi?

This is one conflict I will never understand. Virtually anything that one can accuse of Islam of can also be turned back on Christianity. Much of the Bible reflects an older outlook on women, and many writings of early Christians like Church fathers are explictly chauvinistic. As I recall, Tertullian himself called for women to veil themselves, and he had more authority in Christendom than the qualifier "in Malaysia" implies regarding the representation of Islam. Maybe Christians want to flaunt how much more civilized they are nowadays, but I don't see how they can take credit for it, since it wasn't Christianity that brought the west to where it is now.

Whenever someone points out the counter examples against Christianity you simply allow that the old Christianity was corrupted, or that it was not "your" Christianity- for Christianity you use yourself and your ideas as an example, and for Islam you use any Muslim actions or ideas worldwide as an example.

In any case, Ahmadi is restrained by his word for now, and he even said he hoped his good will would be returned. I'm surprised to not see more of it, since from where I stand Islam and Christianity have an awful lot of common ground considering how little it's discussed.
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02-19-2010, 06:31 AM
Post: #10
RE: Extending the olive branch
(02-19-2010 03:23 AM)Venedi Sporoi Wrote:  ...Whenever someone points out the counter examples against Christianity you simply allow that the old Christianity was corrupted, or that it was not "your" Christianity- for Christianity you use yourself and your ideas as an example, and for Islam you use any Muslim actions or ideas worldwide as an example...

You have pointed out the fundamental problem that I see with so-called "gnostic christianity." It is an attempt to exploit what they see as the "good parts" of mainstream Christianity, while side-stepping or ignoring the messy problems of history. Despite its having a few good points, "gnostic christianity" is, in my mind, a narscissitic cop-out from reality.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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