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Faith and reason: an invitation to Christians
01-18-2010, 09:35 PM
Post: #1
Faith and reason: an invitation to Christians
Albert Einstein said, “The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.”

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo Galilei

This invitation is extended to the fellow Christians with love and compassion because the Holy Quran says about them:

And thou shalt assuredly find those who say, ‘We are Christians,’ to be the nearest of them in love to the believers. That is because amongst them are savants and monks and because they are not proud.
(Al Quran 5:83)

Andrew Conway Ivy writes, “One should never retreat from reason. One should use reason, and use it accurately and aggressively. A faith which is not preceded by reason is a weak faith and is vulnerable to devastating attack and to subversion. Religious faith not based on reason breeds bad character and bad conduct.”

When faced with a difficult argument many a Christians choose to bury their proverbial head in the sand of so called faith. It could have been acceptable in the past generations, but in this age of information, it is a more serious limitation.

Ivy makes a clear case for reason over blind faith. He then contrasts Theistic outlook with atheistic or materialist paradigm and demonstrates the superiority of the Theistic perspective. Growing up in the twentieth century USA Ivy did not have any exposure to Islam. Given his experiences he equates Theistic perspective with Christianity. However, once the limitations of Christianity have been demonstrated as they are becoming more and more apparent on this Forum, then only logical and pragmatic survivor of Theistic outlook is Islam! Ivy also examines as to what happens to human rights in an atheistic paradigm.

Andrew Conway Ivy (1893-1978) was appointed by the American Medical Association as its representative at the 1946 Nuremberg Medical Trial for Nazi doctors. He became vice president of the University of Illinois, responsible for the medicine, dentistry and pharmacy schools. From 1939 to 1941 he was president of the American Physiological Society. By 1945 he was probably ‘the most famous doctor in the country.’ The article can be read online:

http://www.alislam.org/egazette/articles...200910.pdf

This is an invitation to all fellow Christians to firmly ground your faith in reason, and let evidence be your guide, whereever it takes you. May God bless you. Amen!

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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01-18-2010, 09:44 PM
Post: #2
RE: Faith and reason: an invitation to Christians
(01-18-2010 09:35 PM)Ahmadi Wrote:  Albert Einstein said, “The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.”

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo Galilei

This invitation is extended to the fellow Christians with love and compassion because the Holy Quran says about them:

And thou shalt assuredly find those who say, ‘We are Christians,’ to be the nearest of them in love to the believers. That is because amongst them are savants and monks and because they are not proud.
(Al Quran 5:83)

Andrew Conway Ivy writes, “One should never retreat from reason. One should use reason, and use it accurately and aggressively. A faith which is not preceded by reason is a weak faith and is vulnerable to devastating attack and to subversion. Religious faith not based on reason breeds bad character and bad conduct.”

When faced with a difficult argument many a Christians choose to bury their proverbial head in the sand of so called faith. It could have been acceptable in the past generations, but in this age of information, it is a more serious limitation.

Ivy makes a clear case for reason over blind faith. He then contrasts Theistic outlook with atheistic or materialist paradigm and demonstrates the superiority of the Theistic perspective. Growing up in the twentieth century USA Ivy did not have any exposure to Islam. Given his experiences he equates Theistic perspective with Christianity. However, once the limitations of Christianity have been demonstrated as they are becoming more and more apparent on this Forum, then only logical and pragmatic survivor of Theistic outlook is Islam! Ivy also examines as to what happens to human rights in an atheistic paradigm.

Andrew Conway Ivy (1893-1978) was appointed by the American Medical Association as its representative at the 1946 Nuremberg Medical Trial for Nazi doctors. He became vice president of the University of Illinois, responsible for the medicine, dentistry and pharmacy schools. From 1939 to 1941 he was president of the American Physiological Society. By 1945 he was probably ‘the most famous doctor in the country.’ The article can be read online:

http://www.alislam.org/egazette/articles...200910.pdf

This is an invitation to all fellow Christians to firmly ground your faith in reason, and let evidence be your guide, whereever it takes you. May God bless you. Amen!

Einstein, the Nazis and the Catholic Church

Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler’s campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly.
.

- Albert Einstein, Time magazine, 23rd December, 1940 p. 38
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01-18-2010, 11:52 PM
Post: #3
RE: Faith and reason: an invitation to Christians
Time magazine claimed that quote from Einstein without any source to a specific time or publication of the quote, and it is quite likely that Albert Einstein never said any such thing.

Here is an article from e-skeptic refuting the Catholic claim that Einstein supported their church in their actions against the Nazis. It discusses the controversy in more detail. Suffice to say, it does not match Einstein's style, and it would be very out of character for Einstein to specifically praise the Catholic church, given his own deistic/pantheistic beliefs.

Now, Einstein did say in a 1947 letter that in the early years of the Nazi regime (in the 30s) he mentioned to a journalist that hardly any intellectuals except for a few churchmen were supporting individual rights and intellectual freedom, but that is quite different from supporting the church itself.

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01-19-2010, 06:43 AM
Post: #4
RE: Faith and reason: an invitation to Christians
The prelude to Einstein's discoveries was his childhood dream to find out how God made the Universe. I know Einstein was not a typical believer in one of the Abrahamic faiths, but said a whole lot about religion. For example:

“That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.”

“That humble attitude of mind toward the grandeur of reason incarnate in existence, which in its profoundest depths, is inaccessible to man.” (Max Jammer. Einstein and religion, physics and theology. Princeton University Press, 1999. Page 110-111.)

“A belief bound up with deep feeling in a superior mind that reveals itself in the world of experience, represents my conception
of God.” (Jerry Mayer and John Holms. Bite-size Einstein: Quotations on just about everything from the greatest mind of the twentieth century. St Matin’s Press. New York.)

“Scientist’s religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. This feeling is the guiding principle of his life and work.” (Albert Einstein. The world as I see it. Published by The Book Tree, 2007. Page 29.)

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”

Here is a detailed artilce on Google-knol examining his science and religion. Was he a monotheist, deist, pantheist, or an atheist? How did his religion affect his science? The article is titled, Albert Einstein's search for God and has numerous well referenced quotes from Einstein:

http://knol.google.com/k/zia-shah/albert...mbuyp/110#

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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01-19-2010, 04:42 PM
Post: #5
RE: Faith and reason: an invitation to Christians
Einstein was definitely not an atheist and had very strong opinions on spirituality. But Einstein's spirituality was non-specific, and it never interfered with his rational study of the universe. As such he is a model for all good theists. (Okay, it's possible it interfered once, but I maintain that was due to his frustration of quantum theory than with any spiritual belief.)

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01-19-2010, 07:37 PM (This post was last modified: 01-19-2010 07:40 PM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #6
RE: Faith and reason: an invitation to Christians
(01-19-2010 04:42 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  Einstein was definitely not an atheist and had very strong opinions on spirituality. But Einstein's spirituality was non-specific, and it never interfered with his rational study of the universe. As such he is a model for all good theists. (Okay, it's possible it interfered once, but I maintain that was due to his frustration of quantum theory than with any spiritual belief.)

I agree with most of it. In my judgment he is more of a deist like Thomas Jefferson. So, advise us the theists, those who believe in a Personal God, how can we best follow him in actions, without having to give up our belief?

One after thought, I have heard that some king maker offered to make him Prime Minister of Israel and he politely denied and said, "Politics are for the moment and an equation is forever!" Too many of the Homo sapiens fall for short term and immediate social advantage, for one thing we could follow that example of Einstein.

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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01-21-2010, 02:05 AM
Post: #7
RE: Faith and reason: an invitation to Christians
I will note that I have never heard this story, but whether it's true or not I know of very few scientists who are given such an opportunity Smile

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01-22-2010, 09:14 AM (This post was last modified: 01-22-2010 09:25 AM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #8
RE: Faith and reason: an invitation to Christians
Thank you GT for your input.

Now, let me go on with my task of inviting my Trinitarian friends, brothers and sisters towards Unitarianism, here I present a book:

The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity's self inflicted wound
Let me invite all open minded readers to read a book, by Unitarian Christians, 'The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound' by Sir Anthony Buzzard and Charles F. Hunting.

This important work is a detailed biblical investigation of the relationship of Jesus to the one God of Israel. The authors challenge the notion that biblical monotheism is legitimately represented by a Trinitarian view of God and demonstrate that within the bounds of the canon of Scripture Jesus is confessed as Messiah, Son of God, but not God Himself. Later Christological developments beginning in the second century misrepresented the biblical doctrine of God and Christ by altering the terms of the biblical presentation of the Father and Son. This fateful development laid the foundation of a revised, unscriptural creed that needs to be challenged. This book is likely to be a definitive presentation of a Christology rooted, as it originally was, in the Hebrew Bible. The authors present a sharply-argued appeal for an understanding of God and Jesus in the context of the original Christian documents.

Sir Anthony Buzzard teaches at Atlanta Bible College. Charles F. Hunting is a retired pastor and college business manager.

The way I look at Islam and Judaism is that Judaism which is for every one, not just for the Israelites is called Islam. So, here is the road map I propose for the Trinitarians as they advance in their study and their search for the Truth.

Unitarian Christianity -- Islam -- Ahmadiyya Muslim Community

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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01-22-2010, 03:00 PM
Post: #9
RE: Faith and reason: an invitation to Christians
Testimony of EP Sanders about Jesus Christ
In his book ‘The Historical Figure of Jesus’ Sanders analyzes what we know about Jesus, may peace be upon him, through detailed textual analysis. On the issue of his divinity and title as ‘Son of God,’ he writes:

"The early Christians, then, used ‘Son of God’ of Jesus but they did not think that he was a hybrid, half God and half human. They regarded ‘Son of God’ as a high designation, but we cannot go much beyond that…. The first followers of Jesus, however, when they started calling him ‘Son of God’, would have meant something much vaguer: a person standing in a special relationship to God, who chose him to accomplish a task of great importance."

Sanders, E.P., The Historical Figure of Jesus, The Penguin Group, England, 1993, p.244-245.

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