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God and Lucifer
11-12-2017, 02:42 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2017 02:45 PM by GeneralT001.)
Post: #1
God and Lucifer
I am a firm believer in a Supreme being. A creator of all that we are able to perceive. A being that is without beginning or end. I don't necessarily buy into the Biblical account of G-d as a 100% accurate portrayal of Him/Her but I do believe in the general tenets taught in the Bible of what is right and what is wrong and the way in which we should be conducting ourselves while on planet Earth.

The mere thought of an entity that has always existed and has no end is beyond my mental grasp - but in my reality I seem to exist so I have no issue believing in a higher (MUCH...MUCH....) higher power.

Now G-d has a lot of time on His hands (I know time is relative, at least to us) and from our perspective he is a creator of things. Heaven only knows of the multitude of creations He/She may have done before us. I think its pretty silly to think we are His/her sole achievement.

Anyway, going on the premise that G-d is all knowing and all powerful and a creator and that we were made in His image (not a literal image but a figurative image ie he thinks - we think, he has emotions - we have emotions etc). One of the things most humans don't like is being alone, we are social so I can believe that G-d is also social. This is why I believe that there are multitudes of Angels "spirit beings" in G-ds vicinity. He has had an eternity to work on this so who knows what the numbers are? Now, we humans seem to like to have a pecking order in society. The majority like to have someone in power to rule over their lives, whether its government or the head of the house - we seem to need order. According to the Bible it is similar in Heaven thus Arch Angels, Cherubs etc. I'm kinda digressing here....

Anyway, my point here is that we humans are very limited in our intellect and yet we know full well that we could never win a battle against G-d. So how come a being such as Lucifer - and his multitude of followers - who supposedly are that much more intelligent than us could presume to believe that they could overthrow G-d almighty in a rebellion? I cannot reconcile this as it just doesn't make sense?

Also, is it possible that we humans are the fallen angels in this Biblical rebellion and this entire physical reality we see and live was created solely to give us a chance to redeem ourselves back into the G-d fold before being put out of our misery permanently?

Or maybe were just a pastime for G-d - looked on the same we we would look upon our pets (cats/dogs)?
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11-12-2017, 03:12 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2017 03:12 PM by muhammad_isa.)
Post: #2
RE: God and Lucifer
(11-12-2017 02:42 PM)GeneralT001 Wrote:  ...
Anyway, my point here is that we humans are very limited in our intellect and yet we know full well that we could never win a battle against G-d. So how come a being such as Lucifer - and his multitude of followers - who supposedly are that much more intelligent than us could presume to believe that they could overthrow G-d almighty in a rebellion? I cannot reconcile this as it just doesn't make sense?

No, it doesn't.
It makes sense that due to envy, they can't help but disobey G-d time & again..

(11-12-2017 02:42 PM)GeneralT001 Wrote:  Also, is it possible that we humans are the fallen angels in this Biblical rebellion and this entire physical reality we see and live was created solely to give us a chance to redeem ourselves back into the G-d fold before being put out of our misery permanently?

Almighty God knows best on the origin of our souls.
Surely we belong to God and to Him we will return!

He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: He leadeth me beside the still waters.
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11-12-2017, 04:51 PM
Post: #3
RE: God and Lucifer
Quote:So how come a being such as Lucifer - and his multitude of followers - who supposedly are that much more intelligent than us could presume to believe that they could overthrow G-d almighty in a rebellion? I cannot reconcile this as it just doesn't make sense?

What makes you think God is the good guy and deserves worship and Lucifer is the bad guy?

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when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
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11-12-2017, 06:16 PM
Post: #4
RE: God and Lucifer
(11-12-2017 04:51 PM)The_Squid Wrote:  
Quote:So how come a being such as Lucifer - and his multitude of followers - who supposedly are that much more intelligent than us could presume to believe that they could overthrow G-d almighty in a rebellion? I cannot reconcile this as it just doesn't make sense?

What makes you think God is the good guy and deserves worship and Lucifer is the bad guy?

Aside from what the Bible says, G-d is all powerful - so he doesn't need to be contrary whereas Lucifer/Satan/Devil/etc wants what G-d has, so he has to be adversarial?
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11-12-2017, 09:42 PM
Post: #5
RE: God and Lucifer
(11-12-2017 02:42 PM)GeneralT001 Wrote:  Anyway, my point here is that we humans are very limited in our intellect and yet we know full well that we could never win a battle against G-d. So how come a being such as Lucifer - and his multitude of followers - who supposedly are that much more intelligent than us could presume to believe that they could overthrow G-d almighty in a rebellion? ... Also, is it possible that we humans are the fallen angels in this Biblical rebellion and this entire physical reality we see and live was created solely to give us a chance to redeem ourselves back into the G-d fold before being put out of our misery permanently?

Lucifer, now Satan, appears to think he can still win the game. Don’t ask me why. That said, human beings are not angels, fallen or not. We suffered our own fall, eating fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thus learning we were nothing but stinking naked apes, now experiencing the full panoply of good and evil, from the delights of a fried chicken meal shared in a friend’s house to the horror of a callous hit-and-run driver who slams a pedestrian to the ground and plows on to his destination—no one getting his tag number, police never tracking him down.

Will this fella go to hell for his evil deed? I doubt it. Hades is going into the lake of fire anyway, and will no longer exist, along with those whose names aren’t in the book of life, who also won’t exist after the great white throne judges the dead. One can indeed pursue evil, become an agent of destruction on this Earth, go over to a reprobate mind, and be incinerated in the lake of fire—thus out of his misery and out of the new heaven and new Earth the saved will inhabit. I don’t know how many will perish in this way—I think God will be merciful, granting most humans space in his mansion of many rooms. But some won’t make it.

Still, God wants all to have eternal life. We need only heed his gentle voice, when he presses us to stay our hands from violence, adultery, and gluttonous greed. In no wise are we just pets in his eyes.
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11-13-2017, 04:51 PM (This post was last modified: 11-13-2017 04:55 PM by Blastcat.)
Post: #6
RE: God and Lucifer
We know full well the stories about God.

so what.. they are stories.

amen



(11-12-2017 09:42 PM)Amememhab Wrote:  I think God will be merciful

that sounds like more of a hope..

In the bible, the god doesn't show mercy at all.. has his son killed, drowns all the babies.
burns towns, and turns a woman into a pillar of salt because she took a peak at the burning.

Meh.
I call your god a psychopathic monster.

Just me, though.
amen
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11-13-2017, 05:07 PM
Post: #7
RE: God and Lucifer
(11-12-2017 06:16 PM)GeneralT001 Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 04:51 PM)The_Squid Wrote:  
Quote:So how come a being such as Lucifer - and his multitude of followers - who supposedly are that much more intelligent than us could presume to believe that they could overthrow G-d almighty in a rebellion? I cannot reconcile this as it just doesn't make sense?

What makes you think God is the good guy and deserves worship and Lucifer is the bad guy?

Aside from what the Bible says, G-d is all powerful - so he doesn't need to be contrary whereas Lucifer/Satan/Devil/etc wants what G-d has, so he has to be adversarial?

The bible shows an angry, jealous god that kills entire populations of people.... and Lucifer rebels against him.... gets sent to hell, which God created.... hmmmm...... who’s the bad guy again?


Being “all powerful” doesn’t seem to me to be a prerequisite for being good.

God is constantly “contrary” in the bible... and he could have made Lucifer dissapear, no? He kept him around... why? For sport? To teach us a lessen? Doesn’t seem very “good” to do that.

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Does anyone know where the love of God goes
when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
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11-13-2017, 05:13 PM
Post: #8
RE: God and Lucifer
I'd check that attitude.....just incaseWink
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11-13-2017, 06:34 PM (This post was last modified: 11-13-2017 06:42 PM by muhammad_isa.)
Post: #9
RE: God and Lucifer
(11-13-2017 05:07 PM)The_Squid Wrote:  ...
Being “all powerful” doesn’t seem to me to be a prerequisite for being good.

If you think that evil trumps good, you've got another think coming..
Some Muslims seem to think that .. they've backed the 'wrong horse'

That's not to say that war isn't encumbent on a nation in self-defence. The problem with the Bible is its inaccuracy.
Naturally, people will criticise the Qur'an in a similar manner. Mankind needs to establish justice. It might seem a simple matter, but it's not.
It requires a great deal of patience. ..something a lot of people, regardless of creed, have very little of..

He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: He leadeth me beside the still waters.
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11-13-2017, 09:53 PM (This post was last modified: 11-13-2017 09:54 PM by The_Squid.)
Post: #10
RE: God and Lucifer
(11-13-2017 05:13 PM)GeneralT001 Wrote:  I'd check that attitude.....just incaseWink

Threats of eternal torment are both stupid and against the rules here.
(11-13-2017 06:34 PM)muhammad_isa Wrote:  
(11-13-2017 05:07 PM)The_Squid Wrote:  ...
Being “all powerful” doesn’t seem to me to be a prerequisite for being good.

If you think that evil trumps good, you've got another think coming..

Where did I say that? I said that it’s hard to tell who’s the evil one when it comes to the bible...

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Does anyone know where the love of God goes
when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
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