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God and Lucifer
Yesterday, 02:31 PM
Post: #31
RE: God and Lucifer
Don’t get me wrong, Herm. I love the old Star Trek. Lt. Uhuru (Nichelle Nichols) was the real cool cucumber there, even more than Mr. Spock, as she said, “We’re getting a signal from the alien vessel.” But it had a few things that rubbed my craw, in promotion of Cold War values and in the sciences. For a Star Trek linguistic blooper, see my remarks at

Amememhab, reply to Blunderbuss, Religion Forums
http://www.religionforums.org/Thread-Sci...#pid300389

Here Uhuru invokes the sun-Son pun to chide Spock, perhaps appropriately given Capt. Merrick’s crew was supposedly English-speaking Federation folk. Yet the scriptwriters seemed not to realize there’s no alliterative link between solus and filus in Latin.

Anyway, we gotta pack all the sensors, computers, and transmitters into that 10-gram probe, even if we decide to send just a few, to ensure a close flyby of α Centauri the star itself, our first direct look at another stellar photosphere. We could do Sirius as well, to capture the hotter photosphere of a class A star, albeit an 80-year flight outbound. Are there sunspots? How’s the stellar wind, the magnetosphere, the corona? When the launching program terminates and we sit back for the long cruises, that 1000-megawatt plant can supply the national power grid.

Will a transmitter with only a few milliwatts power be received on Earth? I’m told the Arecibo radio dish can signal a similar dish 15000 parsecs away, yet it’s got hundreds of kilowatts to broadcast, a huge bowl to focus the beam, and the receiver’s got a huge bowl to catch it with a nice big antenna overhead. I’m not a radio engineer, so I can’t tell you if it’s feasible in a <10 gram package, or when we’ll ever do it, should politics, economics, and tech allow. Right now I don’t think Goldstone could hear a Voyager call from 4 light-years away, and that craft weighed a ton, with 100 watts or so to broadcast.

(Yesterday 10:03 AM)ajay0 Wrote:  Whatever it may be, the persecution [by the Church] was a sign of intolerance that a viewpoint that varied with Catholic dogma ought not to be given.

I and Galileo are with you here, so far.

(Yesterday 10:03 AM)ajay0 Wrote:  When the Hindu-arabic numeral system arrived in Europe, the Pope declared it to be the ‘devils numbers’ due to its foreign origin.

My reading doesn’t suggest any pope ever declared Hindu-Arabic numerals evil, although if you know differently and can name that pope, I’ll change my mind. Instead, what I got was that Gerbert of Aurillac (ca. 955-1003) introduced the numerals at Reims, the Catholic cathedral school Pope John XIII sponsored him into. Sure, the Catholics had a lot of dogma and they suppressed certain kinds of research they felt contradictory to the faith. Yet they were friendly to mathematics, and to astronomy, too, until Copernicus (ca. 1540) started fooling around with a moving Earth in Poland.

Lynn Nelson
Virtual Library Medieval Lectures
http://www.vlib.us/medieval/lectures/gerbert.html
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Yesterday, 03:09 PM
Post: #32
RE: God and Lucifer
(Yesterday 02:31 PM)Amememhab Wrote:  Don’t get me wrong, Herm. I love the old Star Trek. Lt. Uhuru (Nichelle Nichols) was the real cool cucumber there, even more than Mr. Spock, as she said, “We’re getting a signal from the alien vessel.” But it had a few things that rubbed my craw, in promotion of Cold War values and in the sciences.

Uhura was not just the cool cucumber aboard, she was steaming hot as well Smile
I however was just too young at the time to concern myself with cold war values...

Posting the following picture will draw Vis' attention Big Grin

[Image: uhura.jpg]

(Yesterday 02:31 PM)Amememhab Wrote:  For a Star Trek linguistic blooper, see my remarks at

Amememhab, reply to Blunderbuss, Religion Forums
http://www.religionforums.org/Thread-Sci...#pid300389

Here Uhuru invokes the sun-Son pun to chide Spock, perhaps appropriately given Capt. Merrick’s crew was supposedly English-speaking Federation folk. Yet the scriptwriters seemed not to realize there’s no alliterative link between solus and filus in Latin.

I had noticed that one already...

(Yesterday 02:31 PM)Amememhab Wrote:  Anyway, we gotta pack all the sensors, computers, and transmitters into that 10-gram probe, even if we decide to send just a few, to ensure a close flyby of α Centauri the star itself, our first direct look at another stellar photosphere. We could do Sirius as well, to capture the hotter photosphere of a class A star, albeit an 80-year flight outbound. Are there sunspots? How’s the stellar wind, the magnetosphere, the corona? When the launching program terminates and we sit back for the long cruises, that 1000-megawatt plant can supply the national power grid.

Will a transmitter with only a few milliwatts power be received on Earth? I’m told the Arecibo radio dish can signal a similar dish 15000 parsecs away, yet it’s got hundreds of kilowatts to broadcast, a huge bowl to focus the beam, and the receiver’s got a huge bowl to catch it with a nice big antenna overhead. I’m not a radio engineer, so I can’t tell you if it’s feasible in a <10 gram package, or when we’ll ever do it, should politics, economics, and tech allow. Right now I don’t think Goldstone could hear a Voyager call from 4 light-years away, and that craft weighed a ton, with 100 watts or so to broadcast.

I'm afraid it will never happen.... unless God decides to show he's there and he'll help us Wink

Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it
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Yesterday, 04:58 PM
Post: #33
RE: God and Lucifer
(11-20-2017 09:42 PM)Amememhab Wrote:  
(11-20-2017 08:56 PM)Imprecise Interrupt Wrote:  In 1838, photography was much too primitive to make usable images of star fields. The device employed for parallax used a fixed lens and a moveable lens to make very precise angular measurements between stars. A very bright star, i.e., a candidate for one that was fairly close, was observed and the angular measurements between that and surrounding dimmer stars were recorded. Six months later, the observations were repeated and the angular measurements compared.

So that’s how! Thanks! I could have dug it up, but probably would not have, on my own. I keep thinking of Tombaugh’s ca. 1930 photos of Pluto, showing its motion in front of background stars.

Which was a lucky break. The position of a ‘ninth planet’ was predicted to explain minor variations in the orbit of Neptune. The position of that planet was successfully predicted to explain minor variations in the orbit of Uranus. Pluto happened to show up at the right place for the ‘ninth planet’ but its orbit turned out to be totally wrong. Much later with better data about Neptune, it was realized that there was no need for a mystery planet.

(11-20-2017 09:42 PM)Amememhab Wrote:  As for horsing a laser interferometer setup into that elevator car and squeezing in beside it, no thank you! Why, I’d have to stand on the lab table, head scrunched against the elevator’s ceiling panels, trying not to step on the delicate equipment parts underfoot! Except now I see that Thor Labs has an interferometer, the INT-MSI-1300B - Michelson-Type Interferometer, 1250 - 1350 nm, 100 MHz, that weighs only 4lbs, but it’ll set you back $2,362. You can carry it into the gravitating elevator car under your arm, to make measurements ceiling and floor. My, how technology advances!
~ Big Grin

The Honywell Ring Laser Gyro[/url], a three axis laser interferometer used for navigation, is only a few inches in size and weighs one pound. It still needs a power source and connection to a readout device.

(11-20-2017 09:42 PM)Amememhab Wrote:  Unfortunately, neither angling suspended weights nor interferometer-derived time dilation differences due to the gravity’s GR effects are local affairs. Einstein claimed equivalence holds only at a single point in spacetime. It no longer holds in an extended volume, as different points within that volume travel different world curves.

True, the very definition of ‘local’ with respect to the Einsteinian equivalence principle rules out all of the ‘tricks’ I mentioned. As well as the simplest one – look out the window. Smile

It is interesting to consider the actual differences between the two cases.

In the case of gravity (‘pulling down’), the elevator does not go anywhere.
In the case of spatial acceleration (‘pulling up’), the elevator does go somewhere.
(Obviously. Rolleyes )

In the case of gravity, it is noticeable only when opposed. In free fall, no force is felt.
In spatial acceleration, the acceleration is always felt.

In gravity, time dilation occurs. i.e., clocks run slower with respect to an external observer not deep in the gravity well. But inside the elevator car sitting on the surface of the gravitating mass, the degree of time dilation will remain constant.
In spatial acceleration, the elevator is going faster and faster. The degree of time dilation is increasing.

Notice that in case of spatial acceleration, comparing the clock inside the elevator with a non-accelerating one outside gets tricky. The distance between the two will be changing and successive time signals from the elevator car will either get further apart or closer together, and possibly switch over as one passes the other. Making sense of the time signal values and their spacing in time could get rather strange.

Relativity is fun! As long as somebody else does the math… Wink

And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price
You have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice
Dylan
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Yesterday, 07:19 PM (This post was last modified: Yesterday 07:40 PM by Amememhab.)
Post: #34
RE: God and Lucifer
(Yesterday 04:58 PM)Imprecise Interrupt Wrote:  Pluto happened to show up at the right place for the ‘ninth planet’ but its orbit turned out to be totally wrong.
~ Wink

Poor little Pluto, smaller than our own moon, demoted from its status as planet to become a Kuiper Belt object, a mere “planetoid!” Yet with a moon, Charon, of its own, and wearing a huge heart on its southern hemisphere.

Thanks for your Honeywell gyro, which shall help me if I need to determine whether the elevator car I’m riding in free fall is headed for a hard landing in the basement because terrorists have cut the cable, or lies ensconced in orbit about the Earth, beside the International Space Station. In the latter case, the indicated gyro direction will precess relative to the elevator’s walls, in the former, it’ll stay put, toward the ceiling perhaps, and I’ll have to pray hard, or hit the call button and hope the fire department can brake it in the five seconds I have left.

Honeywell makes home thermostats, by the way.
~ Big Grin

(Yesterday 04:58 PM)Imprecise Interrupt Wrote:  Notice that in case of spatial acceleration, comparing the clock inside the elevator with a non-accelerating one outside gets tricky... Making sense of the time signal values and their spacing in time could get rather strange... As long as somebody else does the math… Wink

You’ll need to account for the relativistic Doppler effect altering the frequency of that time signal; and yeah: Amememhab’s brain is too fuzzy to get the math correct. If you’re not moving directly away from the time signal tower, you’ll have both radial and transverse components. But the formula’s not immense:

Your measured frequency
= source’s frequency times γ(1 – v cos θ / c),

where γ = (1 – v^2/c^2)^-1
and θ is your angle of motion away from radial. γ is the time dilation, of course.

But I’ll surely hit the wrong key, or do my Hewlett-Packard’s Reverse Polish Notation in the wrong order! If the elevator gets to relativistic speeds on its way down the shaft, at least I won’t feel anything when it hits bottom, and the impact explosion will no doubt vaporize the building and the city surrounding it.
~ Big Grin
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