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God begets not, nor is he begotten (Qur'an, 112:3)
02-27-2010, 01:10 AM
Post: #1
God begets not, nor is he begotten (Qur'an, 112:3)
Muslims believe, that Jesus was one of the

mightiest messengers of God that he was the

Christ, that he was born miraculously without any

male intervention (which many modern-day

Christians do not believe today), that he gave

life to the dead by God's permission and that he

healed those born blind and the lepers by God's

permission. In fact, no Muslim is a Muslim if he

or she does not believe in Jesus!
What will also surprise the christians is the

fact that the Muslim does not take the holy name

of Jesus, in his own language, without saying

Eesa, alaihi assalam ("Jesus, peace be upon

him").

God begets not, nor is he begotten (Qur'an,

112:3)

Evidence from the Qur’an

A common mistake among people is their thinking

of God as a super human being somewhere up in the

sky. Then they attribute all kinds of human

activity and relationships to God as if He was

like human beings. Once it is clear that humans

have children, such people conclude that God has

children too. But God declares this idea to be

false.

God tells us in His Book that there is nothing

like Him (see surah 42:11). God also says that

there is nothing comparable unto Him (112:4).

Surely, God is not a physical being. God tells

us:

"Vision comprehends Him not, but He

comprehends (all) vision” (Qur’an 6:103).

God declares that those who impute sons and

daughters to Him do so falsely and without

knowledge (see surah 6:100). The Qur’an appeals

to our reason by saying:

“The Originator of the heavens and the earth!

How can He have a child when he has no consort,

when He created all things and is Aware of all

things?” (6:101)

This is in obvious reply to those who may claim

that God has a literal son or daughter, terms

which in human languages mean the offspring of a

pair.

Some may say, however, that God can produce a

child without having a consort. In that case,

you are not speaking of a child but a creature of

God. In any case, God declares that He begets

not, nor is He begotten (surah 112:3).

Some may say that God has adopted a child. God

declares that this idea too lacks reason. Since

everyone already belongs to God, what then is the

point of adopting? God says:

“And they say: Allah has taken unto Himself a

son. Be He glorified! Nay, but whatsoever is in

the heaven and the earth are His. All are

subservient unto Him. The originator of the

heavens and the earth! When He decrees a thing,

He says unto it only: Be! and it is” (2:116-117).

The idea that people should be called children of

God is an erroneous one. Why not call them what

they are? They are mortals of God’s creating.

To those who say, “We are the sons of Allah and

His loved ones,” Allah tells us to say as

follows: “Why then does He chastise you for your

sins? Nay, you are but mortals of His creating”

(5:18).

God is not like humans to need children. God

declares that He is self-sufficient. He has no

need for such things (Qur’an 10:68).

It just so happens that people have a tendency to

regard righteous persons as children of God. But

God instructs us to call them not His children,

but His righteous servants. God says:

“And they say: The Beneficent has taken unto

Himself a son. Be He glorified! Nay, but (those

whom they call sons) are honoured slaves; they

speak not until He has spoken, and they act by

His command” (21:26-27).

In the next part we shall see that one such

righteous servant of Allah is called Son of God

by the people, although he himself did not call

himself by this title but continually made it

known that he is a servant of Allah.
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02-27-2010, 06:21 AM
Post: #2
RE: God begets not, nor is he begotten (Qur'an, 112:3)
Muhammad was not told the identity of God. He followed the Jewish conception of God being an Alien Entity, incomprehensible to human beings. Jesus Christ of the New Testament Gospels corrected this spiritual error by continually reminding his followers that he was the Son of Man.

Muhammad's Issa knows nothing about the Son of Man knowledge since Issa was Muhammad's fantasy of turning Jesus into a Muslim verifying Muhammad's erroneous theology and Arab usurper's placement in the linage of Jewish prophets of God.
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02-28-2010, 12:47 AM
Post: #3
RE: God begets not, nor is he begotten (Qur'an, 112:3)
I will show from the Bible to prove that Christ God to me
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02-28-2010, 04:52 AM
Post: #4
RE: God begets not, nor is he begotten (Qur'an, 112:3)
(02-27-2010 01:10 AM)mobkem Wrote:  Muslims believe, that Jesus was one of the

mightiest messengers of God that he was the

Christ, that he was born miraculously without any

male intervention (which many modern-day

Christians do not believe today), that he gave

life to the dead by God's permission and that he

healed those born blind and the lepers by God's

permission. In fact, no Muslim is a Muslim if he

or she does not believe in Jesus!
What will also surprise the christians is the

fact that the Muslim does not take the holy name

of Jesus, in his own language, without saying

Eesa, alaihi assalam ("Jesus, peace be upon

him").

God begets not, nor is he begotten (Qur'an,

112:3)

Evidence from the Qur’an

A common mistake among people is their thinking

of God as a super human being somewhere up in the

sky. Then they attribute all kinds of human

activity and relationships to God as if He was

like human beings. Once it is clear that humans

have children, such people conclude that God has

children too. But God declares this idea to be

false.

God tells us in His Book that there is nothing

like Him (see surah 42:11). God also says that

there is nothing comparable unto Him (112:4).

Surely, God is not a physical being. God tells

us:

"Vision comprehends Him not, but He

comprehends (all) vision” (Qur’an 6:103).

God declares that those who impute sons and

daughters to Him do so falsely and without

knowledge (see surah 6:100). The Qur’an appeals

to our reason by saying:

“The Originator of the heavens and the earth!

How can He have a child when he has no consort,

when He created all things and is Aware of all

things?” (6:101)

This is in obvious reply to those who may claim

that God has a literal son or daughter, terms

which in human languages mean the offspring of a

pair.

Some may say, however, that God can produce a

child without having a consort. In that case,

you are not speaking of a child but a creature of

God. In any case, God declares that He begets

not, nor is He begotten (surah 112:3).

Some may say that God has adopted a child. God

declares that this idea too lacks reason. Since

everyone already belongs to God, what then is the

point of adopting? God says:

“And they say: Allah has taken unto Himself a

son. Be He glorified! Nay, but whatsoever is in

the heaven and the earth are His. All are

subservient unto Him. The originator of the

heavens and the earth! When He decrees a thing,

He says unto it only: Be! and it is” (2:116-117).

The idea that people should be called children of

God is an erroneous one. Why not call them what

they are? They are mortals of God’s creating.

To those who say, “We are the sons of Allah and

His loved ones,” Allah tells us to say as

follows: “Why then does He chastise you for your

sins? Nay, you are but mortals of His creating”

(5:18).

God is not like humans to need children. God

declares that He is self-sufficient. He has no

need for such things (Qur’an 10:68).

It just so happens that people have a tendency to

regard righteous persons as children of God. But

God instructs us to call them not His children,

but His righteous servants. God says:

“And they say: The Beneficent has taken unto

Himself a son. Be He glorified! Nay, but (those

whom they call sons) are honoured slaves; they

speak not until He has spoken, and they act by

His command” (21:26-27).

In the next part we shall see that one such

righteous servant of Allah is called Son of God

by the people, although he himself did not call

himself by this title but continually made it

known that he is a servant of Allah.

This is a hodge-podge of unattribted cut-and-paste; as such, it violates the forums anti-spamming rules:

http://www.islam101.com/religions/christ...eptGod.htm

http://www3.sympatico.ca/shabir.ally/new_page_31.htm

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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02-28-2010, 08:12 AM
Post: #5
RE: God begets not, nor is he begotten (Qur'an, 112:3)
The starter of the thread is giving different attributes of God from the Holy Quran and also providing rationale and reasons behind those, which may not be apparent to the uninitiated immediately. For example:

“The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child when he has no consort, when He created all things and is Aware of all things?” (Al Quran 6:101)

A major part of the field of biology can be cited as a commentary of this verse, and as a proof for God of Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, Jeremiah, John the Baptist and Muhammad, may peace of God be on all of them. The same concept was brought out in secular language by 'Greatest that I am,' in a recent thread.

So, in this thread one would hope that the Muslim writers will describe the attributes of God further and the Unitarian Christians and the Jews will agree. The Trinitarians can, of course, explain the superiority and rationale of their Triune concept of God.

This should make a good discussion and not handled by rhetoric and unnecessary accusations.

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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02-28-2010, 09:10 AM (This post was last modified: 02-28-2010 09:12 AM by biomystic.)
Post: #6
RE: God begets not, nor is he begotten (Qur'an, 112:3)
(02-28-2010 08:12 AM)Ahmadi Wrote:  The starter of the thread is giving different attributes of God from the Holy Quran and also providing rationale and reasons behind those, which may not be apparent to the uninitiated immediately. For example:

“The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child when he has no consort, when He created all things and is Aware of all things?” (Al Quran 6:101)

A major part of the field of biology can be cited as a commentary of this verse, and as a proof for God of Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, Jeremiah, John the Baptist and Muhammad, may peace of God be on all of them. The same concept was brought out in secular language by 'Greatest that I am,' in a recent thread.

So, in this thread one would hope that the Muslim writers will describe the attributes of God further and the Unitarian Christians and the Jews will agree. The Trinitarians can, of course, explain the superiority and rationale of their Triune concept of God.

This should make a good discussion and not handled by rhetoric and unnecessary accusations.

So we have platitudes and honorifics posing as knowledge of God? You get what you pay for I guess but if a religion's theology has no idea of what God is, thinks God is unknowable and yet turns around saying God has no partners, etc, to me this is just pure malarky, unadulterated b.s. that only people trained by their culture to accept traditional religious dogma no matter how absurd and contradictory it is could go for such doctrines.
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02-28-2010, 09:25 AM (This post was last modified: 02-28-2010 09:29 AM by Aijan7d.)
Post: #7
RE: God begets not, nor is he begotten (Qur'an, 112:3)
God
Of the 99 attributes of Allah in the Quran not one describes his nature or essence. They all describe what he is not. Hmmm. The God of the Bible is knowable reading John 17:3; Jeremiah 9:24, personal, spiritual reading John 4:24. What makes Muslims think that God cannot have a son or many sons - is God not God? Can God not do as God wishes?

Jesus
The Quran contains many things which suggest in my view that Jesus was more than a mere prophet (lower case p). Knowing that the Quran came after the Bible the New Testament was written by people who walked with Jesus. Muhammad only heard about Jesus called Isa in the Qur'an over five centuries later. Hmmm.

It is interesting to compare Jesus and Muhammad according to the Qur'an. Jesus did miracles reading Surah 3:49; 5:110 but Muhammad did not. Jesus was sinless reading Surah 3:46, but Muhammad sinned and needed forgiveness reading Surah 40:55. Jesus was called the Messiah by allah in the Qur'an. And Jesus was even born of a virgin reading Surah 3:45-57. Yet Muhammad who had 12 wives, 2 concubines, and participated in many attacks on innocent caravans and villages, and insisted on a huge percentage of all the booty from these raids. Hmmm.

My question is should not Jesus be in first place and Muhammed second even though in Islam Jesus is no more than a prophet who will return? In Islam Jesus is pushed to one side and Muahmmed takes first place. Muhammed is supposed to be the ''greatest'' of the prophets. He is not the Messiah so why first place.

Hmmm, Muhammad only heard about Jesus called Isa in the Qur'an over five centuries later - so he had his own ideas about Jesus and so did the writers of the Quran. I sense mischief.

What's on
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02-28-2010, 09:31 AM (This post was last modified: 02-28-2010 09:34 AM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #8
RE: God begets not, nor is he begotten (Qur'an, 112:3)
The thread is about Monotheism of Islam and Triune God of Trinity. Let me first request Aijan7d to amplify the Unitarianism in his beliefs in his Gnostic Christianity.

I will let the initiator of this thread reply to Aijan7d, if he does not then I will in a few days in a different thread.

Blessed are the poor in spirit, the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.
Blessed are the patient, they shall inherit the land.
Blessed are those who mourn, they shall be comforted.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for Holiness, they shall have their fill.
Blessed are the merciful, they shall receive mercy.
Blessed are the clean of heart, they shall see God.
Blessed are the Peacemakers, they shall be counted the children of God.
Blessed are those who suffer persecution in the cause of right, the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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02-28-2010, 01:58 PM
Post: #9
RE: God begets not, nor is he begotten (Qur'an, 112:3)
(02-28-2010 09:31 AM)Ahmadi Wrote:  The thread is about Monotheism of Islam and Triune God of Trinity. Let me first request Aijan7d to amplify the Unitarianism in his beliefs in his Gnostic Christianity.

I will let the initiator of this thread reply to Aijan7d, if he does not then I will in a few days in a different thread.

Blessed are the poor in spirit, the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.
Blessed are the patient, they shall inherit the land.
Blessed are those who mourn, they shall be comforted.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for Holiness, they shall have their fill.
Blessed are the merciful, they shall receive mercy.
Blessed are the clean of heart, they shall see God.
Blessed are the Peacemakers, they shall be counted the children of God.
Blessed are those who suffer persecution in the cause of right, the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.

More non-answers and diversion from the topic. Allah would seem to have partners but tells Muslims HE doesn't. Allah partnered with Mary to produce Jesus in the typical pagan way of a god coming down to earth and impregnating a woman to produce a god-man. Allah partnered with Gabriel to give Muhammad instructions. Allah is partnered with Muhammad who is given higher status than Jesus who Allah fathered. A lot of questions here pointing to severe contradiction in the Quran. Stay on topic, Ahmadi and perhaps for once start answering the hard questions about Islam put to you on these boards.
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