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God being Omnipotent is impossible.
07-20-2010, 01:00 PM
Post: #1
God being Omnipotent is impossible.
God being Omnipotent is impossible.

Main Entry: 1om·nip·o·tent 
Pronunciation: \-tənt\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin omnipotent-, omnipotens, from omni- + potent-, potens potent
Date: 14th century
1 often capitalized : almighty 1
2 : having virtually unlimited authority or influence <an omnipotent ruler>

Think about the unlimited influence that God is said to have.

I submit that it is limited.

He could not influence Satan to not turn evil.
He could not influence the third of angels that followed Satan to remain faithful to Him.
He could not influence Adam and Eve away from eating of the tree of knowledge.
He could not influence those in the days of Sodom to reject their ways.
He could not influenced those of Noah’s day to believe in Him.
He has not influenced all or even half of mankind to believe that He is God.
He could not influence so many so often that to say that He is omnipotent becomes an attribute that God does not have and has never manifested.

Revelation 19:6
And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

Is it possible that God will only be omnipotent after His return?

Is it correct then to say that God has shown that He is NOT omnipotent from the very beginning of His interaction with sentient creatures?

If Not omnipotent then does that mean that God cannot do miracles, because, if He could, it would be a simple miracle indeed to change the attitude of those above who have been immune to His influence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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07-20-2010, 02:27 PM
Post: #2
RE: God being Omnipotent is impossible.
It's pretty clear in the Bible when it states that God does not interfere with free will. A better case against being omnipotent is the "Can God heat up a burrito in a microwave so hot that he can't touch it?" Big Grin

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01-17-2011, 11:28 AM (This post was last modified: 01-17-2011 11:28 AM by Hamza Abdulhakim.)
Post: #3
RE: God being Omnipotent is impossible.
Hello,

(07-20-2010 02:27 PM)vociferous Wrote:  It's pretty clear in the Bible when it states that God does not interfere with free will. A better case against being omnipotent is the "Can God heat up a burrito in a microwave so hot that he can't touch it?" Big Grin

We just have a very similar discussion in another thread. The answer to that entertaining question would be the following. If you think omnipotence don't include doing the impossible the answer would be 'Yes, it not possible for God to heat up a burrito in a microwave so hot that he can't touch it, but that would not invalidate his omnipotence'. If you, for some reasons, think omnipotence include doing the impossible the answer would be 'Yes God can heat up a burrito in a microwave so hot that he can't touch it and then he will touch it'. So in both cases this is an invalid argument.
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01-17-2011, 01:06 PM
Post: #4
RE: God being Omnipotent is impossible.
(01-17-2011 11:28 AM)Hamza Abdulhakim Wrote:  Hello,

(07-20-2010 02:27 PM)vociferous Wrote:  It's pretty clear in the Bible when it states that God does not interfere with free will. A better case against being omnipotent is the "Can God heat up a burrito in a microwave so hot that he can't touch it?" Big Grin

We just have a very similar discussion in another thread. The answer to that entertaining question would be the following. If you think omnipotence don't include doing the impossible the answer would be 'Yes, it not possible for God to heat up a burrito in a microwave so hot that he can't touch it, but that would not invalidate his omnipotence'. If you, for some reasons, think omnipotence include doing the impossible the answer would be 'Yes God can heat up a burrito in a microwave so hot that he can't touch it and then he will touch it'. So in both cases this is an invalid argument.

If God cannot do the impossible, then you have to scrap the Bible.
After all, it begins with a talking snake, ends with a seven headed monster and has a water walking immortal God who can somehow die. Impossible.

Right?

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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01-17-2011, 01:25 PM (This post was last modified: 01-17-2011 01:56 PM by Hamza Abdulhakim.)
Post: #5
RE: God being Omnipotent is impossible.
(01-17-2011 01:06 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(01-17-2011 11:28 AM)Hamza Abdulhakim Wrote:  Hello,

(07-20-2010 02:27 PM)vociferous Wrote:  It's pretty clear in the Bible when it states that God does not interfere with free will. A better case against being omnipotent is the "Can God heat up a burrito in a microwave so hot that he can't touch it?" Big Grin

We just have a very similar discussion in another thread. The answer to that entertaining question would be the following. If you think omnipotence don't include doing the impossible the answer would be 'Yes, it not possible for God to heat up a burrito in a microwave so hot that he can't touch it, but that would not invalidate his omnipotence'. If you, for some reasons, think omnipotence include doing the impossible the answer would be 'Yes God can heat up a burrito in a microwave so hot that he can't touch it and then he will touch it'. So in both cases this is an invalid argument.

If God cannot do the impossible, then you have to scrap the Bible.
After all, it begins with a talking snake, ends with a seven headed monster and has a water walking immortal God who can somehow die. Impossible.

Right?

Well, not exactly. At first I'm not a christian. Second I don't believe God became a man (I assume you speaking of God becoming Jesus?). Thirdly to prove your point that the bible need to be scrap you have to demontrate that it is impossible to interpret the bible in the way that omnipotence doesn't include doing the impossible. Fourthly according to most of christian theology it is not necessary to affirm the bible is inerrent to be a christian. Fifthly you just implied that you adhere to the opinion that omnipotence don't include doing the impossible which would then invalidate your argument.
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01-17-2011, 01:59 PM
Post: #6
RE: God being Omnipotent is impossible.
(01-17-2011 01:25 PM)Hamza Abdulhakim Wrote:  
(01-17-2011 01:06 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(01-17-2011 11:28 AM)Hamza Abdulhakim Wrote:  Hello,

(07-20-2010 02:27 PM)vociferous Wrote:  It's pretty clear in the Bible when it states that God does not interfere with free will. A better case against being omnipotent is the "Can God heat up a burrito in a microwave so hot that he can't touch it?" Big Grin

We just have a very similar discussion in another thread. The answer to that entertaining question would be the following. If you think omnipotence don't include doing the impossible the answer would be 'Yes, it not possible for God to heat up a burrito in a microwave so hot that he can't touch it, but that would not invalidate his omnipotence'. If you, for some reasons, think omnipotence include doing the impossible the answer would be 'Yes God can heat up a burrito in a microwave so hot that he can't touch it and then he will touch it'. So in both cases this is an invalid argument.

If God cannot do the impossible, then you have to scrap the Bible.
After all, it begins with a talking snake, ends with a seven headed monster and has a water walking immortal God who can somehow die. Impossible.

Right?

Well, not exactly. At first I'm not a christian. Second I don't believe God became a man (I assume you speaking of God becoming Jesus?). Thirdly to prove your point that the bible need to be scrap you have to demontrate that it is impossible to interpret the bible in the way that omnipotence doesn't include doing the impossible. Fourthly according to most of christian theology it is not necessary to affirm the bible is inerrent to be a christian. Fifthly you just implied that you adhere to the opinion that omnipotence don't include doing the impossible which would then invalidate your argument. We should have a serious discussion and not adhere to emotional arguments.

I had 0 emotional content in my answer. It was straight logic.

To be a Christian, they have to read some of the Bible literally. I pointed out why they cannot read about a water walking immortal God who can somehow die unless he can do the impossible.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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01-17-2011, 02:10 PM (This post was last modified: 01-17-2011 02:12 PM by Hamza Abdulhakim.)
Post: #7
RE: God being Omnipotent is impossible.
Hello,

Quote:I had 0 emotional content in my answer. It was straight logic.

Yes, I realized this was inappropriate. Therefore I edited my post.

Quote:To be a Christian, they have to read some of the Bible literally. I pointed out why they cannot read about a water walking immortal God who can somehow die unless he can do the impossible.

Why do you think to be a christian you have necessarily read the bible literally? I would agree with you that a God who is eternal can't die. Nonetheless I don't think the claim that God became a perfect man and still remained a perfect God is explicitely teached in the bible and at least a christian who rejects the trinity doctrine would not face the paradox you are claiming.
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01-17-2011, 04:28 PM
Post: #8
RE: God being Omnipotent is impossible.
(01-17-2011 02:10 PM)Hamza Abdulhakim Wrote:  Hello,

Quote:I had 0 emotional content in my answer. It was straight logic.

Yes, I realized this was inappropriate. Therefore I edited my post.

Quote:To be a Christian, they have to read some of the Bible literally. I pointed out why they cannot read about a water walking immortal God who can somehow die unless he can do the impossible.

Why do you think to be a christian you have necessarily read the bible literally? I would agree with you that a God who is eternal can't die. Nonetheless I don't think the claim that God became a perfect man and still remained a perfect God is explicitely teached in the bible and at least a christian who rejects the trinity doctrine would not face the paradox you are claiming.

He would not but it is debatable then if he would be a Christian or not.

Can a Christian be a Christian without Christ? No.

Can you have Christ without reading some of the Bible literally? No.

Can you believe in Allah without reading some of the Qu'ran literally? No.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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01-17-2011, 10:18 PM
Post: #9
RE: God being Omnipotent is impossible.
Hello,

Quote:He would not but it is debatable then if he would be a Christian or not.

Yes, that is correct.

Quote:Can a Christian be a Christian without Christ? No.

Yes, that is correct but it misses the point. The word christ does not mean someone who is God incarnate. The word christ is derived from the greek word christos which means annoyted. Before the emerge of christianity, it is debated if the early christians believed christ to be God incarned, there wasn't even the concept of the messiah being God incarnet and dying for the sins of humankind. You can't presuppose the definition of christ to be God in human form and then from there argue that since this is the case every christian must necesarily believe in the trinity. To prove your argument that the bible need to be rejected by christians you have to show that firstly a christian necessarily need to believe the bible is inerrent, in fact most theologians don't, and that it is impossible to interpret the bible to not teaching the doctrine of the trinity, which is also believed by lot of theoligians today. If you are not able to do that you can not sucessfully argue that the bible need to be scraped because it is logically impossible that an immortal God can die.
A christian could very reject this premise and completely solve the proposed problem thereby.

Quote:Can you have Christ without reading some of the Bible literally? No.

well, in fact yes. You can believe in Jesus Christ without even knowing the bible in fact muslims do so. Even a christian can believe in Jesus without knowing the bible which was done by the first christians since the new testament was not yet written down. The second is point if of course you need to take some parts of it literally even non-christian historians need to do so. I just realized I overead the word sum in your sentence before so I misunderstood your objection. A christian, or for that matter nearly everyone, need to read some of the bible litterally. I don't understand in which way this supports your argument though. Could you clarrify this part a bit?

Quote:Can you believe in Allah without reading some of the Qu'ran literally? No.

Well, the same thing also applies in this case. Since you can believe in Allah without knowing the Qur'an you can believe in him without taking some of litterally.
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01-17-2011, 11:01 PM
Post: #10
RE: God being Omnipotent is impossible.
H A

It may be easier to explain if I just deal with your last on Allah and the same would basically apply to Christ as Christians know him.

"you can believe in Allah without knowing the Qur'an"

If I burned every copy of the Qur'an or indicated on the front cover that it was a work of pure fiction, would any readers believe in Allah as a real entity?
Not anyone with half a brain. The same would apply to Christ and the Bible.

Either book must be read with some belief in it's literality and historicity if belief in Allah or Christ is to be formed.

"You can believe in Jesus Christ without even knowing the bible in fact muslims do so."

Not if the book is believed to be fiction or never existed. The Bible is basically the only record of Jesus.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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