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God the Father now bows to Jesus! What the?
08-25-2009, 02:38 PM
Post: #1
God the Father now bows to Jesus! What the?
God the Father now bows to Jesus! What the?

When Jesus says, only through me, then He, as 1/3 of the Godhead, is taking the judgment that once took three to decide. That judgment will now be done by He alone.

In real life, as a father, you would not allow such in your reality.
It would irk you too much.

To think that God the Father would Plan such a silly usurping of His power is rather funny.


This is part of the problem, if you read literally.

I present this in a literal and true interpretation, but do not read the Bible literally myself.


Would you let your son, well, sort of take over?

Forced retirement, so to speak.

You will not judge My humans anymore is what Jesus might as well say to His Father.


I personally like the Father. He learns from His mistakes. Jesus does not.


Why have you forsaken me. Simple. I rule humans. I judge as always.

You are not I am. I am.

As to your vicarious redemption, Gods do not die or sacrifice themselves for what they create.




Deu 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

2Ch 25:4 But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.


Thoughts?


Regards
DL
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08-25-2009, 02:47 PM
Post: #2
RE: God the Father now bows to Jesus! What the?
Remember, "Literally" means reading it in proper context, both within the whole text and culturally. Terms like "god the father, god the son, and got the holy ghost" are metaphors for a single god, which was accepted by the Jews at that time (having been truly monotheistic since the Persian invasion.) Christianity never deviates from this Jewish ideal of monotheism. Christ was an incarnation of god, an avatar if you will, not a separate deity. Hence the opening of the gospel of John: "In the beginning was the word (meaning Jesus,) and the word was with god, and the word WAS god" (my emphasis).

I'm not sure why I take time to do this, save my obsession with truth. But there are plenty of legitimate reasons for considering the bible a work of fiction. New ones do not need to be invented.

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08-25-2009, 05:30 PM
Post: #3
RE: God the Father now bows to Jesus! What the?
(08-25-2009 02:47 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  Remember, "Literally" means reading it in proper context, both within the whole text and culturally. Terms like "god the father, god the son, and got the holy ghost" are metaphors for a single god, which was accepted by the Jews at that time (having been truly monotheistic since the Persian invasion.) Christianity never deviates from this Jewish ideal of monotheism. Christ was an incarnation of god, an avatar if you will, not a separate deity. Hence the opening of the gospel of John: "In the beginning was the word (meaning Jesus,) and the word was with god, and the word WAS god" (my emphasis).

I'm not sure why I take time to do this, save my obsession with truth. But there are plenty of legitimate reasons for considering the bible a work of fiction. New ones do not need to be invented.

Jesus tells us it is fiction. He cannot be before his mother.

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DL
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08-25-2009, 06:01 PM
Post: #4
RE: God the Father now bows to Jesus! What the?
What verse are you using for that?

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08-25-2009, 06:13 PM
Post: #5
RE: God the Father now bows to Jesus! What the?
(08-25-2009 02:38 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  God the Father now bows to Jesus! What the?

When Jesus says, only through me, then He, as 1/3 of the Godhead, is taking the judgment that once took three to decide. That judgment will now be done by He alone.

In real life, as a father, you would not allow such in your reality.
It would irk you too much.

To think that God the Father would Plan such a silly usurping of His power is rather funny.


This is part of the problem, if you read literally.

What exactly is it you are reading, literally or otherwise? Is this what you are referring to?

Quote:5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

John 14:5-11

Where is the usurping? It is the essential identity of Father and Son that is being presented here. John took great pains to link Jesus with God the Father as closely as possible. His theme throughout his Gospel was to clearly distinguish the new Christian church from Judaism and to justify it as THE religion. Toward that end he was looking to assign as much authority as possible to Jesus. And you don’t get any more authoritative than God Almighty. Wink

You also mentioned judgment. Perhaps you also meant these?

Quote:The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.
John 3:35

Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son
John 5:22

And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.
John 5:27

By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
John 5:30

But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.
John 8:16

Same idea over and over again. Authority is grounded in God and passes through Jesus. We got Jesus/God in our camp! Our religion is better than your religion. Nyaah! Nyaah! Tongue
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08-25-2009, 06:16 PM
Post: #6
RE: God the Father now bows to Jesus! What the?
Ah, good old John. Quite honestly, if Christians would get rid of all the other stuff, and just keep the stuff written by John, they'd have a much better New Testament.

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08-25-2009, 06:19 PM
Post: #7
RE: God the Father now bows to Jesus! What the?
(08-25-2009 06:16 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  Ah, good old John. Quite honestly, if Christians would get rid of all the other stuff, and just keep the stuff written by John, they'd have a much better New Testament.

I would get rid of John, who is much too misunderstood, and stick with the three Synoptics, period. That's where the love your neighbor stuff is instead of the faith-alone misinterpretation.
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08-25-2009, 06:23 PM
Post: #8
RE: God the Father now bows to Jesus! What the?
Really? But John is the one who is clear about Jesus's divinity in the first place, and John's emphasis was on god's love and affection, while the others dwelled far too much on contradictory stories, ties to Judaism, and physical matters that atheists like myself can so easily tear apart.

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08-25-2009, 07:07 PM (This post was last modified: 08-25-2009 07:09 PM by Parousia.)
Post: #9
RE: God the Father now bows to Jesus! What the?
(08-25-2009 06:23 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  Really? But John is the one who is clear about Jesus's divinity in the first place, and John's emphasis was on god's love and affection, while the others dwelled far too much on contradictory stories, ties to Judaism, and physical matters that atheists like myself can so easily tear apart.

One all too popular interpretation of John - and Paul for that matter - is that if you believe in Jesus (whatever that means) you are saved. Otherwise you are damned. How you act is secondary, if it matters at all. God apparently only loves a select few, at least according to some. Someone I know, a Missouri Synod Lutheran minister, honestly believes that only Missouri Synod Lutherans and not too many of them are going to heaven. Everyone else who ever lived or will live is in for a lengthy heat wave.

Mark, Matthew and Luke emphasize moral living and respect for others. "Love your neighbor as yourself" and similar advice appears in all three Synoptics (except Matthew's Pharisees of course Big Grin), but not in John. In John, you are supposed to love Jesus and other Christians. This is often interpreted as everyone else is damned. John was really laying down boundary markers to distinguish proto-orthodox Christianity from its competitors, a revivified Judaism on one side and the beginnings of Gnosticism on the other. Although not really intended as such, we see here the roots of exclusivism and everything that has resulted in throughout history. But then, Christianity does not have a monopoly in that area. Sad
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08-25-2009, 07:21 PM
Post: #10
RE: God the Father now bows to Jesus! What the?
See, that's the thing according to the Christians. Matthew, Mark, and Luke do talk about living well, loving your neighbor, and doing good works. James talks about this at length. But Matthew, Mark, and Luke never directly tie living well to salvation, and James is re-interpreted until he no longer ties living well to salvation. John and Paul, on the other hand, make it very clear that only faith in Jesus is necessary.

Hence my believe that Christianity is actually a very poor religion. Protestant Christianity loves to tout itself, saying that they are based on faith, not works, and that makes them superior to other religions (and Catholicism). I say that does not make the protestants better. It makes them far, far worse. Even atheists acknowledge that there is a societal imperative to moral behavior. I can sit someone down and explain to them how charity is a vital part of society, and the doing of good works for little or no reward is in fact a quality of sentience that should be cherished, as it improves not only the survival of the species (thus fulfilling any evolutionary requirement,) but it heightens the quality of life for all involved in a society where good works flourish (thus fulfilling any selfish reasoning). Other religions have good works as requirements for the religion, thus forcing their adherents to do good whether they like it or not (an inferior reasoning than the atheist version, in my opinion, but the results are still good.)

Christianity stands almost alone (note I did say almost) as a religion where people can be selfish, arrogant, and downright cruel, and yet still get to heaven because god is all-forgiving. This is especially true in sects like the Baptists, who believe in a "once saved, always saved" philosophy that is quite simply monstrous in its implications. "So as long as I was sincere at one point in my life, I can get away with anything now? Well, when I joined the church I really meant it, but now, well, now actual life has made me jaded and cynical."

Just as an example, I grew up in a Baptist church, and I was completely sincere about my conversion. According to the Baptists, I am going to heaven, even though I spend time now convincing people that Christianity is wrong, that atheism is enlightened, and that they should stay away from the church. So . . . I suppose I've won Pascal's Wager, then.

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