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Has god be around forever?
12-11-2008, 06:33 PM
Post: #1
Has god be around forever?
Everything has a start point. Something made something. If god is real and has been around for "ever" who created god. Someone or something had to, dosent just pop put of nowhere
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12-13-2008, 07:52 AM (This post was last modified: 12-13-2008 07:55 AM by Anthem.)
Post: #2
RE: Has god be around forever?
FrostBite Wrote:Everything has a start point. Something made something. If god is real and has been around for "ever" who created god. Someone or something had to, dosent just pop put of nowhere
That is a very good question. If God exist where did He come from? I am a Christian who has gotten to the place in my life that I can truly say I have no doubts at all concerning God’s existence. It hasn’t always been that way though. With a lot of personal tragedy in my life, and looking around at the world, I found a lot of reasons to question the existence of God. But time has taken care of most of my questions. Some of the answers I have found probably wouldn’t work for everyone, but for me I’ve learned enough to finally rest on this matter. I accept that God is spirit and not created in the same way we were. The creation of matter, and the laws that make our universe function comes from God who has existed before time, as we know it.
Its weird how I can accept that spirit came into being without the help of a creator, but our universe and how it functions is another matter. I agree that God had to have had a beginning, but spirit doesn’t seem to need the same laws that nature requires.
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12-13-2008, 05:55 PM
Post: #3
RE: Has god be around forever?
But if he had a beginning something or someone must have created him, why not worship it instead??? Why not worship ourlseves if were the next step of creation along a line? And doesnt that mean that whatever made god had to be made by something else?
Why does all this supernatural junk make sense to people, why appeal to a supernatural being as having a constant existance when we could just apply the same idea much more simply to the universe?

my atheism is just like your religion
only i subtract 1 one more god
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12-14-2008, 07:30 AM (This post was last modified: 12-14-2008 07:32 AM by Anthem.)
Post: #4
RE: Has god be around forever?
athos123 Wrote:But if he had a beginning something or someone must have created him, why not worship it instead??? Why not worship ourlseves if were the next step of creation along a line? And doesnt that mean that whatever made god had to be made by something else?
Why does all this supernatural junk make sense to people, why appeal to a supernatural being as having a constant existance when we could just apply the same idea much more simply to the universe?
Even though God had to have had a beginning, He didn't have to have a creator. I can believe in God but that doesn't mean that I believe in a lot of supernatural junk. There is a lot of junk going on out there, that’s for sure. But there is truth too, and it doesn't take much to see it. God is a supernatural being and He existed before time began. Time began with God when He created our universe. But He existed before He created our universe. So maybe it is like word games isn't it?
Our universe requires so many things to stay as they are in order for us to exist. Look at all the laws that keep things functioning as they are, and just the right mixture for everything. It takes a lot of faith for me to look at science and realize how precise everything has to be in order to exist. How God came into being isn't near as hard for me. God is Spirit whatever that is, and I don’t know how His spirit came into being. But the universe is all that matter that would have had to come from nothing if there were no God. I look at the physical universe and I can think. You have to believe that our great complex universe all came from nowhere if you don’t believe in God. There was just blackness and nothingness and then boom, our universe popped out. Give it a few billion years with some evolution and our universe is what you get. (That was the simplified version of course.)
It is so much easier for me to just believe in God.
And it would be nice if more atheists would acknowledge that there is good reason for believers to believe what we do.
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12-14-2008, 08:21 AM
Post: #5
RE: Has god be around forever?
How do u know that couldnt function along a different set of constants, besides even ignoring this these values must have occured because otherwise we would never be here to think about them. How do u know the universe would be so different, do u know what occured in the big bang or other way event that cause creation to set these values, maybe their interelated. Do u know how the matter acted after creation, how it all locked togetherm how do u know everything would go wrong, this is just speculation.

my atheism is just like your religion
only i subtract 1 one more god
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12-14-2008, 08:38 AM
Post: #6
RE: Has god be around forever?
nothing comes from nothing,so we are not really here according to some.i,m just a figment of your imagination.Wink

Good evil salvation
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12-14-2008, 10:48 AM
Post: #7
RE: Has god be around forever?
athos123 Wrote:How do u know that couldnt function along a different set of constants, besides even ignoring this these values must have occured because otherwise we would never be here to think about them. How do u know the universe would be so different, do u know what occured in the big bang or other way event that cause creation to set these values, maybe their interelated. Do u know how the matter acted after creation, how it all locked togetherm how do u know everything would go wrong, this is just speculation.
According to science the universe is expanding. So we can go backward according to science to the time it all began. If you go back far enough everything becomes a dot, then nothing. We exist, so we all have to decide what we believe about these things. Do you know that according to science there wouldn't have even been a big bang? There would have been no sound at all. Science is amazing, all they have discovered about our universe. Regardless what you believe, you really have to stretch the limits of your mind if you think about it. People like me look for answers, and I have found them in Christ. God became man and experienced life, that answer is appealing to me. I love believing that God can understand how we feel. But I don't think anyone appreciates science any more than I do. The things they have discovered have only strengthens my faith in God. Do you understand why I can believe in God?
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12-16-2008, 12:13 AM
Post: #8
RE: Has god be around forever?
Maybe I can!
But I dont think its because youve limited your imagination as you depict above, shore some of the stuff science shows is hard to swallow, that doesnt make it any less true. Just have a look at the theory of relativity, it states that space, time and length change in an object in motion as opposed to the object at rest, this sounds really weird but it has been proved using twin atomic clocks, one in space and one on earth that showed different times when they landed far outside their normal margins of error.
This idea seems wacky and twisted but it is true, just because an idea is comfortable doesnt make it true, people can shout out answers till teh cows come home but science proves them by our sense which is the best possible evidence I believe we can acheive here and now.

my atheism is just like your religion
only i subtract 1 one more god
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12-16-2008, 03:28 AM
Post: #9
RE: Has god be around forever?
athos123 Wrote:Maybe I can!
But I dont think its because youve limited your imagination as you depict above, shore some of the stuff science shows is hard to swallow, that doesnt make it any less true. Just have a look at the theory of relativity, it states that space, time and length change in an object in motion as opposed to the object at rest, this sounds really weird but it has been proved using twin atomic clocks, one in space and one on earth that showed different times when they landed far outside their normal margins of error.
This idea seems wacky and twisted but it is true, just because an idea is comfortable doesnt make it true, people can shout out answers till teh cows come home but science proves them by our sense which is the best possible evidence I believe we can acheive here and now.
Just because some scientific observations have proved some things to be fact, it doesn’t necessarly mean we can use those facts to explain every unanswered question. Theory can mean a lot of things. Sometimes theory is just opinion based on the evidence that is most likely truth. But too often scientific speculation isn’t spoken of that way. Scientific theory is considered to be so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them. So those who view science as having all the answers won’t allow themselves to acknowledge that some science is just a hypothesis. Some people have faith in science as if it is a god. Science doesn’t know all the answers. If you allow for the possibility that God may exist, all the things you thought you knew about science goes out the window. When you add God to the equation, anything is possible.
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12-16-2008, 09:41 PM
Post: #10
RE: Has god be around forever?
Anthem Wrote:
FrostBite Wrote:Everything has a start point. Something made something. If god is real and has been around for "ever" who created god. Someone or something had to, dosent just pop put of nowhere
That is a very good question. If God exist where did He come from? I am a Christian who has gotten to the place in my life that I can truly say I have no doubts at all concerning God’s existence. It hasn’t always been that way though. With a lot of personal tragedy in my life, and looking around at the world, I found a lot of reasons to question the existence of God. But time has taken care of most of my questions. Some of the answers I have found probably wouldn’t work for everyone, but for me I’ve learned enough to finally rest on this matter. I accept that God is spirit and not created in the same way we were. The creation of matter, and the laws that make our universe function comes from God who has existed before time, as we know it.
Its weird how I can accept that spirit came into being without the help of a creator, but our universe and how it functions is another matter. I agree that God had to have had a beginning, but spirit doesn’t seem to need the same laws that nature requires.

Excuse me for not reading the rest of the thread but there is something in your post that I want to ask about. Why does there need to be tragedy to question the existence of god? If he does exist why would he need to make your life with out terrible tragedies? Besides is that the life you want to live in? To me the reason life is so beautiful is because of what happens to us. Good or bad, with out one the other doesn't exist. The contrast is needed for us to have the experiences we have.

Also, Frostbite: your topic post causes an infinite loop of questions. Maybe we should ponder the idea that not everything follows this start - end model that we have worked out. Somethings might just exist and that's it. Goes both ways, for god or not.
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