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Homosexuality
02-11-2010, 02:26 PM
Post: #1
Homosexuality
I've placed this thread in general religion, because I don't believe it belongs in either morality or philosophy or any of the other categories available.

Let me start by saying that the idea of the physical reality of homosexuality makes me uncomfortable.
But I think that homosexuals feel the same way about heterosexual activity.

It seems to me that our sexuality is determined by our genes, we are born with it, just as much as we are born with red hair or blue eyes. We have no control over it.

I have no religion, as I've said before (though brought up catholic). But if my contention is true, and I'm sure it is, then the concept of most religions decrying homosexuality as an abomination is absurd. According to these same religions God created all of us in His image. Therefore the concept of God's Image being an abomination is absolutely absurd. If these people were not created in God's image then who else gets to create people?

Use your religion to tell you the truth of this. (sounding like a fundy....lol)
.
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02-11-2010, 02:32 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2010 02:32 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #2
RE: Homosexuality
(02-11-2010 02:26 PM)minus459 Wrote:  ...It seems to me that our sexuality is determined by our genes, we are born with it, just as much as we are born with red hair or blue eyes. We have no control over it...

Homosexual behavior is, well, behavior. We can control our behavior; if this were not the case, then all exhortations to behave in this way or that would be meaningless.

Some people are born with proclivities for behaviors that are not consistent with healthy society; in such cases, society does feel free to sanction those proclivities even though the person may have been born predisposed to those behaviors.

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02-11-2010, 02:44 PM
Post: #3
RE: Homosexuality
Stereo you're attempting the strawman argument that equates homosexuality with deviant behaviour like paedophilia and therefore negating the image of God stance. It is not valid BECAUSE homosexuality harms no-one, unlike paedophilia which has long ranging and long lasting consequences. That practice as well is not based on love, it is based on control and power. Just as RAPE is. RAPE is not heterosexual specific, homosexual RAPE is not homosexual specific either, to clarify.
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02-11-2010, 03:41 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2010 04:01 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #4
RE: Homosexuality
(02-11-2010 02:44 PM)minus459 Wrote:  ...homosexuality harms no-one...

I think even before the AIDS era, homosexual practice was linked with extraordinarily high health risks and costs.


(02-11-2010 02:44 PM)minus459 Wrote:  ...unlike paedophilia which has long ranging and long lasting consequences...

Princeton Ethicist Peter Singer has pushed for acceptance of bestiality, and in some Islamic countries the age of marital "consent" for girls is nine years old (the age of Aisha, one of the 54-year-old Mohammad's many wives according to Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64). Aisha appears to have suffered no "long-ranging and long-lasting consequences," at least if you believe the Islamic historical records.

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02-11-2010, 04:19 PM
Post: #5
RE: Homosexuality
(02-11-2010 02:26 PM)minus459 Wrote:  I've placed this thread in general religion, because I don't believe it belongs in either morality or philosophy or any of the other categories available.

Let me start by saying that the idea of the physical reality of homosexuality makes me uncomfortable.
But I think that homosexuals feel the same way about heterosexual activity.

It seems to me that our sexuality is determined by our genes, we are born with it, just as much as we are born with red hair or blue eyes. We have no control over it.

I have no religion, as I've said before (though brought up catholic). But if my contention is true, and I'm sure it is, then the concept of most religions decrying homosexuality as an abomination is absurd. According to these same religions God created all of us in His image. Therefore the concept of God's Image being an abomination is absolutely absurd. If these people were not created in God's image then who else gets to create people?

Use your religion to tell you the truth of this. (sounding like a fundy....lol)
.

Homosexuality is/was completely accepted in Vodou until Catholicism influenced it. The majority of peristyles still accept it easily because of base Vodou teachings that gay men are under the protection of Eruzile Freda, and lesbians under Eruzile Dantor.

Quote:I think even before the AIDS era, homosexual practice was linked with extraordinarily high health risks and costs.

Depends on the study, and mind, it shows risks only for men -- those risks however, only work for couples that participate in anal sex -- which not all gay male couples do, and heterosexual couples have the same risks.

Quote:Homosexual behavior is, well, behavior. We can control our behavior; if this were not the case, then all exhortations to behave in this way or that would be meaningless.

Some people are born with proclivities for behaviors that are not consistent with healthy society; in such cases, society does feel free to sanction those proclivities even though the person may have been born predisposed to those behaviors.

So you think people should be forced to remain celibate rather than having a loving relationship? The health risks to that are actually much worse.

Pawol anpil pa leve le mo
Lavi m nan men Bondye o sen
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02-11-2010, 04:23 PM
Post: #6
RE: Homosexuality
(02-11-2010 03:41 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  
(02-11-2010 02:44 PM)minus459 Wrote:  ...homosexuality harms no-one...
I think even before the AIDS era, homosexual practice was linked with extraordinarily high health risks and costs.

Can you tell me what health risks there are within lesb1an practice please? Or for that matter, what risks are there in male homosexual practice if we exclude anal sex?

If there are any, then they are the same risks for heterosexual people. Back door loving has implications for straight people too, and so to try to infer it is simply a male gay activity is just wrong. plus many of the dangers can be removed by wearing protection. Let's not pretend it's just gays that get up to that sort of thing either.

I have to agree with Minus here, and disagree with you Stereo.
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02-11-2010, 04:42 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2010 04:43 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #7
RE: Homosexuality
(02-11-2010 04:23 PM)Zagreus Wrote:  ...if we exclude anal sex?...

I don't know why we would exclude this practice for gay men.

But I do agree that gay men could practice safer sex than the majority of them currently do. If a large percentage of them worldwide were to suddenly do exactly that, and then sustain these new practices for the long term, then my argument would lose some of its force.

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02-11-2010, 04:47 PM
Post: #8
RE: Homosexuality
(02-11-2010 04:42 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  
(02-11-2010 04:23 PM)Zagreus Wrote:  ...if we exclude anal sex?...

I don't know why we would exclude this practice for gay men.

But I do agree that gay men could practice safer sex than the majority of them currently do. If a large percentage of them worldwide were to suddenly do exactly that, and then sustain these new practices for the long term, then my argument would lose some of its force.

You do realise that only about HALF of homosexual men have anal sex, right? And that between 25-45% of heterosexual people have anal sex?

And that at least 30% of male homosexuals never have anal sex?

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02-11-2010, 04:52 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2010 04:55 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #9
RE: Homosexuality
(02-11-2010 04:47 PM)Clementine Wrote:  ...You do realise that only about HALF of homosexual men have anal sex, right? And that between 25-45% of heterosexual people have anal sex? ... And that at least 30% of male homosexuals never have anal sex?

I'm not sure your statistics are accurate, but even if they were, they wouldn't paint an accurate picture of the risks.

Of the gay men who have anal sex, how often do they do it and how many different partners do they have? If you can answer these questions correctly, you will understand why hetero-anal sex does not present anywhere near the risks of the homosexual variety.

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02-11-2010, 05:02 PM
Post: #10
RE: Homosexuality
(02-11-2010 04:52 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  
(02-11-2010 04:47 PM)Clementine Wrote:  ...You do realise that only about HALF of homosexual men have anal sex, right? And that between 25-45% of heterosexual people have anal sex? ... And that at least 30% of male homosexuals never have anal sex?

I'm not sure your statistics are accurate, but even if they were, they wouldn't paint an accurate picture of the risks.

Of the gay men who have anal sex, how often do they do it and how many different partners do they have? If you can answer these questions correctly, you will understand why hetero-anal sex does not present anywhere near the risks of the homosexual variety.

It varies -- as you pointed out, multiple partners is a problem -- but you are also calling single partner homosexuals an issue, and female homosexuals an issue. As a society multiple partners and unsafe sex is always an issue, not just among homosexuals.

And you're ignoring celibate homosexual couples, of which I know two.

Why not call an issue what is an issue? Promiscuity and multiple partners cause risks -- not the gender you're attracted too. And you have to face the issue that we live in a society that because of views like "homosexuality is hurting society" it creates a society where it's that much harder for homosexuals to keep a single partner.

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