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How do you define the word Saint?
12-05-2009, 04:53 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2009 04:58 PM by Azrael17.)
Post: #1
How do you define the word Saint?
I was wondering, because I noticed allot of Catholics will say Saint this and Saint that.

Who is a Saint?
Who decides that they are a Saint?

How can you tell?

Are all Saints Christian?

Also could some one tell me,
Where in the Torah does it command a blood sacrifice to cover sin?

When did the idea of the trinity first became realized by the Church? Was there a person who tried to explain it and could you tell me who?

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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12-06-2009, 07:41 PM
Post: #2
RE: How do you define the word Saint?
1. Someone who is canonized as a Saint into our church calendar. The basic definition of a Saint is someone who is in heaven, but by understanding a saint is someone who you can ask to pray for you or for someone else who has had miracles, etc.

2. In the Catholic Church the Congregation for the Causes of Saints decides who is a saint and who is not. There is a very long process to becoming a saint and two miracles after the Saint has died are needed. Controversies of the Saint and miracles the Saint has had are investigating. When investigating people from the Saints lives are taken in to discern whether the Saint was really a Saint or not. A team of doctors, two religious and two secular investigate the two miracles needed and after the process the Pope decides whether or not to continue on with the beatification of the Saint or not.

3. From the process. The Church recently began "processing" older saints and have actually removed a few such as St. Christopher.

4. All Saints in the church are Christian or Jewish (Bible)

5. I can't answer it.

6. The idea of the Trinity was first defined at the Council of Nicea. It was agreed upon by almost all of the bishops who attended.
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12-07-2009, 06:42 AM
Post: #3
RE: How do you define the word Saint?
5. Where in the Torah does it command a blood sacrifice to cover sin?

There are various places inthe Torah that discuss how to sacrifice. These include Deuteronomy 12 and numerous palces in Leviticus . Exodus of course has the sacrifice of lambs to obtain protection from death

A blood sacrifice is not required for the forgiveness of sins. It is one of the possible sacrifices that could be offered in the Temple for various purposes. One purpose is the forgiveness of sins of the populace not already atoned for in some other way. The image used in Christianity of the death of Jesus as a blood scrifice is a legitimate one with roots in the OT. (Although a human sacrifice is of course forbidden.) But to claim that it is the only way of forgiving sin is wrong.

6. The idea of the Trinity was first defined at the Council of Nicea. It was agreed upon by almost all of the bishops who attended.

The idea of the Trinity goes back well before Nicea. It was at that council that an attempt was made (unsuccessfully) to get everyone to agree on what the Trinity meant. The arguments over it were all tied up with social and political concerns and not infrequently led to violence. What is now considered the definition of the Trinity, at least in the Western churches, was put forth by the Cappadocian Fathers in 381, decades after Nicea.
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12-09-2009, 10:26 PM
Post: #4
RE: How do you define the word Saint?
The Trinity does go back before Nicea, but the first major group of people, most notably the bishops, to support it was at the Council of Nicea.
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12-09-2009, 11:36 PM
Post: #5
RE: How do you define the word Saint?
(12-09-2009 10:26 PM)Holy Babylon Wrote:  The Trinity does go back before Nicea, but the first major group of people, most notably the bishops, to support it was at the Council of Nicea.

At Nicea they attempted (and failed) to come up with a commonly agreed definition, but we see widespread competition between the triune baptismal formula and the "name of Jesus" form ula as early as the mid 2nd century. Novation wrote a major treatise on it in the middle of the 3rd century. There was serious disagreement among the bishops on what it meant, which was a major factor in calling the council of Nicea in the first place.
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12-10-2009, 08:35 PM
Post: #6
RE: How do you define the word Saint?
Failed to define it? I object, that's what the Creed is all about. Failing to define it is what they were countering. Arianism places Jesus below The Father in that The Father created Jesus. They countered it in the Creed with only a couple of bishops disagreeing on the idea. I think they defined well enough that They are equal.
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12-10-2009, 09:45 PM
Post: #7
RE: How do you define the word Saint?
(12-10-2009 08:35 PM)Holy Babylon Wrote:  Failed to define it? I object, that's what the Creed is all about. Failing to define it is what they were countering. Arianism places Jesus below The Father in that The Father created Jesus. They countered it in the Creed with only a couple of bishops disagreeing on the idea. I think they defined well enough that They are equal.

The so called Nicene Creed actually derives from the Council of Constantinople in 381. There was only lip service at Nicea in 325. The Eastern bishops then went back home and explained to their congregations how the wording was compatible with moderate Arianism. The Cappadocian revisions at Constantinople came closer to uniting the church, but ultimately it was outright military force that suppressed Arianism in the East. Of course the joke was on Rome because the Visigoths who sacked that city in 410 were Arian Christians! Tongue

Here is a very readable yet very informative book all about what went on in the 4th century.

http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2...e-god.html
http://www.amazon.com/When-Jesus-Became-...0156013150
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12-11-2009, 05:45 PM
Post: #8
RE: How do you define the word Saint?
No, the Nicene Creed was created at the First Council of Niceae, things were added onto and developed in Constantinople later. The Creeds are different and the one from Constantinople is a lot more like the one we use today, but it is essentially the same Creed from Niceae.
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12-11-2009, 08:46 PM
Post: #9
RE: How do you define the word Saint?
(12-11-2009 05:45 PM)Holy Babylon Wrote:  No, the Nicene Creed was created at the First Council of Niceae, things were added onto and developed in Constantinople later. The Creeds are different and the one from Constantinople is a lot more like the one we use today, but it is essentially the same Creed from Niceae.

The 381 Constantinople version is significantly different from the 325 Nicaea version. (Comparison) But in any case Nicaea was not the beginning.

Tertullian is already describing the Trinity in Against Praxeas well over a century before Nicaea. In fact, Tertullian puts forth a creed that clearly formed the basis of the Nicene Creed. The details are different from both Nicaea and Constantinople. Tertullian in turn derived his from the slightly older Roman Creed, which would later evolve into the Apostles Creed. The Catholic Church uses Nicene/Constantinople Creed in Mass, but generally uses the Apostles Creed otherwise. Even earlier than Tertullian, around 140 CE, Justin Martyr was already describing a triune baptismal formula.

Nicaea was not so much about agreeing on the idea of the Trinity but about agreeing on a specific definition of what the Trinity meant. As it happened, the result was mainly an agreement on words that still had a lot of conceptual wiggle room. Constantinople tightened that up, thanks to the work of the Cappadocian Fathers.
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12-12-2009, 04:34 AM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2009 04:35 AM by catholicstation.)
Post: #10
RE: How do you define the word Saint?
How do you define the word Saint?

Do not know - Cain was not a Saint but G-D bestowed His blessing that no man should kill Him

The Church can only judge "The Temporal Actions" of a person

G-D will judge their Soul and final destination
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