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I feel the necessity to be saved.
06-13-2017, 11:01 PM
Post: #1
I feel the necessity to be saved.
I figure, if all were good there wouldn't be the need to. Across time we picked and chose what is good according our own interests. You can imagine people make mistakes.

Now I find myself surrendering.
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06-13-2017, 11:06 PM (This post was last modified: 06-13-2017 11:09 PM by PeterPants.)
Post: #2
RE: I feel the necessity to be saved.
Are you open to the possibility of being 'saved' through good well informed ideas?
The ethical and practical progress we have made as a species is quite amazing.

We only seemed to realize slavery was wrong a few hundred years ago, i think it is obvious that an appeal to wellbeing, and a practical method based on evidence is what has dragged ua out of our primitive ways. Many of these brillient ideas have been contextualized inside of religion, though i dont see any reason that the good ones cant exist outside it .

~~~

when we enter a discussion on matters of discordance, we should search for truth not victory, In this manner we always win, there are no losers.
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06-13-2017, 11:29 PM
Post: #3
RE: I feel the necessity to be saved.
(06-13-2017 11:06 PM)PeterPants Wrote:  Are you open to the possibility of being 'saved' through good well informed ideas?
The ethical and practical progress we have made as a species is quite amazing.

We only seemed to realize slavery was wrong a few hundred years ago, i think it is obvious that an appeal to wellbeing, and a practical method based on evidence is what has dragged ua out of our primitive ways. Many of these brillient ideas have been contextualized inside of religion, though i dont see any reason that the good ones cant exist outside it .

I won't ascend as a species, it will be all alone.
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06-13-2017, 11:32 PM (This post was last modified: 06-13-2017 11:35 PM by PeterPants.)
Post: #4
RE: I feel the necessity to be saved.
Ok so you very specifically are talking about acending to heaven?
From your post i just read that you feel we are inperfect beings that require improving.
How do you bridge from us being imerfect beings, to the necessity of divine redemption?

Oh. And we have 'ascended' as a species, by retaining good ideas and discarding bad ones. For the most part

~~~

when we enter a discussion on matters of discordance, we should search for truth not victory, In this manner we always win, there are no losers.
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06-13-2017, 11:42 PM
Post: #5
RE: I feel the necessity to be saved.
(06-13-2017 11:32 PM)PeterPants Wrote:  Ok so you very specifically are talking about acending to heaven?
From your post i just read that you feel we are inperfect beings that require improving.
How do you bridge from us being imerfect beings, to the necessity of divine redemption?

It's not necessarily perfect to have the idea being perfect.

(06-13-2017 11:32 PM)PeterPants Wrote:  Oh. And we have 'ascended' as a species, by retaining good ideas and discarding bad ones. For the most part

It's all or nothing, so you're saying we didn't.
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06-13-2017, 11:51 PM (This post was last modified: 06-13-2017 11:53 PM by PeterPants.)
Post: #6
RE: I feel the necessity to be saved.
What are you even talking about? Ascention mean to go up. It can mean many things in a poetic sense. Im using it to mean the ethical and practical improvement of our thoughts and behaviors. Nothing about that is 'all or nothing'...
If your asking me if i think heaven and God and all that are real. No. No i dont.

'Perfect' is an ideal. It is meaningless without context.. When i say we are 'imperfect' i mean we are not perfect in any sense at all. I also dont think we could be.

What kind of perfection are you thinking of?

~~~

when we enter a discussion on matters of discordance, we should search for truth not victory, In this manner we always win, there are no losers.
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06-14-2017, 12:00 AM
Post: #7
RE: I feel the necessity to be saved.
(06-13-2017 11:01 PM)Garden Rose Wrote:  I figure, if all were good there wouldn't be the need to. Across time we picked and chose what is good according our own interests. You can imagine people make mistakes.

Now I find myself surrendering.

The only way into Heaven is righteousness, and repentance/atonement. The purpose of life is life itself. God created us because he was lonely, and it has been God's intent since creation for all of us to transcend this physical, earthly existence and enter Heaven when we die and live forever with God. The righteous who are in Heaven will take part in the resurrection with God and will inherit the earth. Zechariah 14:5 "...and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee".
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06-14-2017, 12:02 AM
Post: #8
RE: I feel the necessity to be saved.
(06-13-2017 11:51 PM)PeterPants Wrote:  What are you even talking about? Ascention mean to go up. It can mean many things in a poetic sense. Im using it to mean the ethical and practical improvement of our thoughts and behaviors. Nothing about that is 'all or nothing'...
If your asking me if i think heaven and God and all that are real. No. No i dont.

'Perfect' is an ideal. It is meaningless without context.. When i say we are 'imperfect' i mean we are not perfect in any sense at all. I also dont think we could be.

What kind of perfection are you thinking of?

There's no such thing as ascending "for the most part". You're either there or you aren't.
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06-14-2017, 12:06 AM (This post was last modified: 06-14-2017 12:09 AM by PeterPants.)
Post: #9
RE: I feel the necessity to be saved.
(06-14-2017 12:00 AM)susanblange Wrote:  The only way into Heaven is righteousness, and repentance/atonement. The purpose of life is life itself. God created us because he was lonely, and it has been God's intent since creation for all of us to transcend this physical, earthly existence and enter Heaven when we die and live forever with God. The righteous who are in Heaven will take part in the resurrection with God and will inherit the earth. Zechariah 14:5 "...and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee".

Thats interesting Sue...

i especially love the part of the purpose of life being life itself, i agree entirely, but would add that we each add our own purpose by valuing things.

im curious, this idea you assert seems inconsistent..
There is not pain suffering hate or anything of the sort in heaven yes? so we are effectively 'perfect' in heaven (those of us that get there)

so.. why didnt God simply make heaven to begin with and populate it with perfect beings?
(06-14-2017 12:02 AM)Garden Rose Wrote:  There's no such thing as ascending "for the most part". You're either there or you aren't.

Your just outright ignoring me now... i went out of my way to explain what i meant by ascending. your comment is entirely invalid based off my definition of ascending..

ill ask again, do you mean riseing to heaven by 'ascending'?
if so, we are talking about totally different things.
also if so;

PeterPants Wrote:Ok so you very specifically are talking about acending to heaven?
From your post i just read that you feel we are inperfect beings that require improving.
How do you bridge from us being imerfect beings, to the necessity of divine redemption?

~~~

when we enter a discussion on matters of discordance, we should search for truth not victory, In this manner we always win, there are no losers.
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06-14-2017, 01:45 AM
Post: #10
RE: I feel the necessity to be saved.
@ PeterPants: Genesis 1:1. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". God also created Cherubim to keep him company until the first people entered Heaven, which were Abel and Enoch. Cherubim were animal/spiritual beings. Spirits cannot reproduce. That is a physical creative process. God created the earth to be inhabited by humans. The human spirit enters a human body when we are born and take that first breath. Our brain and body is what makes us unique. "Spirit" is breath (inside of the body) and wind (outside of the body). It also consists of heat and it has weight. God created Israel for his glory. There are a lot of things that we can do on earth, but can't do in Heaven. Heaven is a temporary home for God and the Angels (Seraphim). God will establish the Kingdom of God/Heaven on the earth.
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