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If God was Computer-Generated
01-11-2018, 09:23 PM
Post: #1
If God was Computer-Generated
Scientists are speculating that all we take as real could be just programming - that we could all be just computer bits - programmed to think that everything that we see is real.

And the crazy thing is that we can never tell - we are dependent on instruments that we made, what we can possibly understand is based on who we are

But these rules apply to God as well - assume that one is God and we find that suddenly we are born in a dark, empty universe. We have no idea how we came to be but we find we have incredible powers - we can switch on the lights, create planets, stars, you name it. We can trash everything and start all over again

But at the back of our minds will always be a question: How did i come to be? Who made me if i was made? I am the big kahuna, so there is no one to ask.

And so even God must be forced to entertain the idea that he too might be just a computer-generated being - residing on someone's computer and allowed to do "whatever he wants" or made to think that everything that he does is real
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01-13-2018, 08:52 AM
Post: #2
RE: If God was Computer-Generated
(01-12-2018 04:02 PM)nomorebadhombres Wrote:  A simulated god is an untestable and unverifiable hypothesis.

Indeed. So is a real god. I concede that hard proof almost never comes in the religion business; hence we have faith.
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01-13-2018, 07:01 PM (This post was last modified: 01-13-2018 07:03 PM by clarence clutterbuck.)
Post: #3
RE: If God was Computer-Generated
(01-12-2018 04:02 PM)nomorebadhombres Wrote:  A simulated god is an untestable and unverifiable hypothesis. Rolleyes

So is a "real" god, whatever that means.

Oops! Just read Amememhab's post.
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01-13-2018, 08:10 PM
Post: #4
RE: If God was Computer-Generated
(01-13-2018 07:01 PM)clarence clutterbuck Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 04:02 PM)nomorebadhombres Wrote:  A simulated god is an untestable and unverifiable hypothesis. Rolleyes

So is a "real" god, whatever that means.

Oops! Just read Amememhab's post.

Well, at least you did put "real" between brackets! Big Grin

Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it
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01-13-2018, 09:06 PM (This post was last modified: 01-13-2018 09:09 PM by Blunderbuss.)
Post: #5
RE: If God was Computer-Generated
For the sake of the science and religion debate/discussion "within" the program I would say as a lowly background character " See how the universe behaves as according to the mechanistic laws of the universe?"

"There must be a Programmer!"

Tongue
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01-14-2018, 02:54 AM
Post: #6
RE: If God was Computer-Generated
(01-13-2018 09:06 PM)Blunderbuss Wrote:  For the sake of the science and religion debate/discussion "within" the program I would say as a lowly background character " See how the universe behaves as according to the mechanistic laws of the universe?"

"There must be a Programmer!"

And the programmer also needed to be programmed Wink

Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it
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01-14-2018, 03:48 PM (This post was last modified: 01-14-2018 04:16 PM by Amememhab.)
Post: #7
RE: If God was Computer-Generated
(01-14-2018 02:54 AM)Herminator Wrote:  
(01-13-2018 09:06 PM)Blunderbuss Wrote:  See how the universe behaves as according to the mechanistic laws of the universe?" "There must be a Programmer!"

And the programmer also needed to be programmed.

And, Herm, the programmer of the programmer had to be programmed. And so on. An infinite regress! Of the simple differential equation

d(e^x) = e^x dx

one mathematician in a smarmy mood, thinking about the Hindu who asked what supported the elephant which supported the Earth, said, “It’s elephants all the way down, braying louder as they go!” Where, of course,

e = 2.7182818284…,

the base of the natural logarithms and the most famous transcendental number after π, was of course the pachyderm in question. You can keep differentiating this function, whose derivative is itself, forever, to keep getting the same thing over and over. Just like an alcoholic who can’t stop drinking. I had such a lovely Christmas this year! My nephew’s 12½ and looking pretty damn good.

So how do you stop the growth of this stack of elephants? Perhaps God’s at the bottom of it all.
~ Wink

Maurice Ravel
“Bolero” (1875)
London Symphony Orchestra
https://youtu.be/ODeNHRtVNO4

(01-13-2018 07:01 PM)clarence clutterbuck Wrote:  
(01-12-2018 04:02 PM)nomorebadhombres Wrote:  A simulated god is an untestable and unverifiable hypothesis.

So is a "real" god, whatever that means.

Ja, Clarence. We have no tests for God’s existence. Count on him testing us, though, at the final judgment! I hope I’ve been on the damn kneeler in my churchhouse enough times to come out squeaky clean on that day, yet I doubt that’s the case. My hypothesis, also untestable, is that sin keeps multiplying unstoppable, except by the grace of God.
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01-14-2018, 04:05 PM (This post was last modified: 01-14-2018 04:06 PM by Herminator.)
Post: #8
RE: If God was Computer-Generated
(01-14-2018 03:48 PM)Amememhab Wrote:  
(01-14-2018 02:54 AM)Herminator Wrote:  
(01-13-2018 09:06 PM)Blunderbuss Wrote:  See how the universe behaves as according to the mechanistic laws of the universe?" "There must be a Programmer!"

And the programmer also needed to be programmed.

And, Herm, the programmer of the programmer had to be programmed. And so on. An infinite regress! Of the simple differential equation

d(e^x) = e^x dx

one mathematician in a smarmy mood, thinking about the Hindu who asked what supported the elephant which supported the Earth, said, “It’s elephants all the way down, braying louder as they go!” Where, of course,

e = 2.7182818284…,

the base of the natural logarithms and the most famous transcendental number after π, was of course the pachyderm in question. You can keep differentiating this function, whose derivative is itself, forever, to keep getting the same thing over and over. Just like an alcoholic who can’t stop drinking. I had such a lovely Christmas this year! My nephew’s 12½ and looking pretty damn good.

So how do you stop the growth of this stack of elephants? Perhaps God’s at the bottom of it all.
~ Wink

Maurice Ravel
“Bolero” (1875)
London Symphony Orchestra
https://youtu.be/ODeNHRtVNO4

There then had to be a programmer (or elephant) lying below God... you're not getting around itSmile

Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it
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01-14-2018, 06:00 PM
Post: #9
RE: If God was Computer-Generated
(01-14-2018 04:05 PM)Herminator Wrote:  ...
There then had to be a programmer (or elephant) lying below God... you're not getting around itSmile

Well, what's infinity + 1?
They're all Almighty God .. much like looking in parallel mirrors Big Grin

He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: He leadeth me beside the still waters.
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01-14-2018, 08:30 PM
Post: #10
RE: If God was Computer-Generated
(01-14-2018 04:05 PM)Herminator Wrote:  There then had to be a programmer (or elephant) lying below God... you're not getting around it.

An elephant upholding the god who’s supporting the infinite stack of elephants! Then, another god under that elephant. And so we ride the merry-go-round, god, tusker, god, tusker, god, tusker...

And we’re back to square one, Herm. God (with a capital “G”) will have to step in somewhere, perhaps at transfinite ordinal position ω2, to keep this quivering pile from breaking through the ice of Switzerland’s Lake Constance, on which it rests, just in case there’s a rhinoceros or two among all those pachyderms! Weird be those transfinite ordinals, which render multiplication noncommutative. For 2ω is not equal to ω2. That’s easy to see, when

2ω = {{1, 2}, {1, 2}, … },

while

ω2 = {{1, 2, 3, ...}, {1, 2, 3, ...}}.

No wonder Georg Cantor, developer of the theory of transfinite cardinals and ordinals, an event which upended Frege’s naive 19th century set theory and led Bertrand Russell to propose the paradox of the Barber of Seville circa 1902, the Cantor who suffered from major depressive disorder as I do, but slogging through the era before effective drugs such as fluoxetine had been able to treat it, admitted to sanitarium after sanitarium, died legally insane after a heart attack in 1918, at age 72.

Russell’s work forced a reevaluation of the foundations of real analysis, the mathematics Leonard Euler, “Analysis Incarnate,” IQ probably somewhere north of 160 and competing with the geniuses of the Swiss Bernoulli family, John and Jacob, had worked so hard on during the 1700s that he went blind. John of course had used minimax methods in 1691 to show that the cables of San Francisco’s Golden Gate Bridge must hang in a catenary shape, at lowest possible energy—not a parabola as Galileo had thought. Not that John ever saw the bridge, opened to traffic in 1937, but he knew how such loaded cables would hang.

Beneath the box elder tree, drunk and homeless in a vacant lot, I heard and listened to the following song played loudly from a nearby house:

Gary Neumann
“Cars” (1979)
https://youtu.be/Im3JzxlatUs

It plays over and over in my head, at times I can’t banish it from mind. I’d helped shoe a horse, the principal who’d cut its toenail too short that it stood in pain, lifting that hoof again and again. Reminds me of the day I boarded the bus for Miami, Florida, so that a huge ficus replaced the box elder as canopy. An anole walked down its trunk, to inspect me with its beady eyes in the dappled midafternoon light of November 2002. Such a small lizard, such a bold attitude! The florets on the lawn closed as the sun went down, fallen leaves from the always-green ficus rustling gently in a southeast wind. The nighttime of life arrived, and the anole, satisfied, went to bed. I lay on the ground and pulled the tarp against raindrops which had begun to sprinkle.

Whether or not God’s computer-generated, the clock’s running down on us, our time catching up, the skeleton inside our bodies yearning to step out and see the light of day. How much longer, Herm? Yul Brynner, the Westworld movie gunslinger of 1973, died of lung cancer in 1985, when I was 21. Youth, once gone, is gone forever.

(01-14-2018 06:00 PM)muhammad_isa Wrote:  Well, what's infinity + 1?

To discover the quantity you seek, Isa, realize you’re counting cows in parade, that is, ordinal numbers. Now count cows forever, all the finite ordinals, 1st cow, 2nd cow, 3rd cow, and so on, passing before your reviewing stand. Forever and ever without end, Isa, you count cows. But what if, as Georg Cantor surmised more than a century ago, you did reach an end. Then what?

Well, because there was a first ordinal number, Cantor reasoned, there must also be a first transfinite ordinal, greater than all the finite ones, but less than all the other transfinite ordinals. He called this number

ω.

The quantity you seek is therefore ordinal

ω + 1,

the second ordinal greater than all the finite ones. In other words, infinity plus one, just as you wrote it in your post. Prosperity and health to you, Isa, in the coming lengthening of the days toward a spring of 2018. Another year has passed.
~ Angel
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