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Insight Welcome
07-28-2010, 01:59 AM
Post: #1
Insight Welcome
Here in the USA, we are said to have certain freedoms through our bill of rights and constitution. Exe., Freedoms of speech, religion, and so on. I've recently learned of some legislation that classifies the preaching against homosexuality as a hate crime. It says that if preached in a place of organized religion that it is considered a hate crime.

My problem with this is that it clearly violates one of our guaranteed freedoms. I could understand if a preacher was out in a crowd of people on the street preaching this that it could maybe fall into this crime but not in a private place of religion. It hasn't been enforced yet but I can't imagine the public response when it is. Our ancestors fled their countries to escape religious persecution and it seems to me that we might be real close to coming full circle.

God Bless
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07-28-2010, 11:27 AM
Post: #2
RE: Insight Welcome
(07-28-2010 01:59 AM)huddleheir Wrote:  Here in the USA, we are said to have certain freedoms through our bill of rights and constitution. Exe., Freedoms of speech, religion, and so on. I've recently learned of some legislation that classifies the preaching against homosexuality as a hate crime. It says that if preached in a place of organized religion that it is considered a hate crime.

My problem with this is that it clearly violates one of our guaranteed freedoms. I could understand if a preacher was out in a crowd of people on the street preaching this that it could maybe fall into this crime but not in a private place of religion. It hasn't been enforced yet but I can't imagine the public response when it is. Our ancestors fled their countries to escape religious persecution and it seems to me that we might be real close to coming full circle.
I live in the UK, but I imagine the laws are similar in that whether it constitutes a crime or not depends on the content. If you were preaching that homosexuality is a sin because the Bible (sort of) says so then I can't imagine you would be prosecuted, if you were preaching that gays should be lynched for being gay then clearly that would be a hate speech.

Why anyone would want to preach against homosexuality is beyond me though, there are far more important things that should concern Christians; the death penalty and torture in Guantanamo Bay to name the most obvious.

The greatest strength is in resisting provocation.
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07-28-2010, 02:52 PM (This post was last modified: 07-28-2010 02:53 PM by CarolineBelle.)
Post: #3
RE: Insight Welcome
I am pretty sure your allowed to say that homosexuality is a sin. In fact I, personally, am fine with people thinking homosexuality is a sin. What you cant do is called "hate speech." (When I say I am fine with it, it mean, you have the right to your opinion. And if all your doing is thinking it is a sin. Fine. But when you try to control the law to take rights away from people, or discriminate against them. That is not ok.)

Here is how wikipedia defines hate speech, which I think is pretty accurate.


Hate speech is, outside the law, any communication which disparages a person or a group on the basis of some characteristic such as race or sexual orientation.[1][2] In law, hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group. The law may identify a protected individual or a protected group by race, gender, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, or other characteristic.[3] In some countries, a victim of hate speech may seek redress under civil law, criminal law, or both.


So you can say gay people are going to hell, ect. But you cant tell people to do anything violent to gay people. Freedom of speech is very important, but so is peoples safety.
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07-28-2010, 02:56 PM
Post: #4
RE: Insight Welcome
Good. Maybe that'll quash the Westboro Baptist Church. I think it's perfectly okay what you want to believe, but actively targeting homosexuals and discrimination towards them isn't appropriate. At all.
Although I think homosexuals should be allowed to harass the bigots that harass them.

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07-28-2010, 03:31 PM (This post was last modified: 07-28-2010 03:33 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #5
RE: Insight Welcome
(07-28-2010 02:56 PM)vociferous Wrote:  ...the Westboro Baptist Church...

For the record, Westboro Baptist Church has the earmarks of a modern cult. The (very old) founding pastor has no theological degree from any accredited seminary, does not participate in ecumenical dialogue, does not write for any legitimate Christian publishing houses or journals, and his "church" is not accountable to any higher denominational authorities. These are at least some of the earmarks of a modern cult, though this list is certainly not exhaustive.

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07-28-2010, 05:45 PM
Post: #6
RE: Insight Welcome
(07-28-2010 03:31 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  
(07-28-2010 02:56 PM)vociferous Wrote:  ...the Westboro Baptist Church...

For the record, Westboro Baptist Church has the earmarks of a modern cult. The (very old) founding pastor has no theological degree from any accredited seminary, does not participate in ecumenical dialogue, does not write for any legitimate Christian publishing houses or journals, and his "church" is not accountable to any higher denominational authorities. These are at least some of the earmarks of a modern cult, though this list is certainly not exhaustive.

The Wesboro Baptist Church, may be more of a cult than an real christian place of worship, but I know I have seen anti-gay and homophobic remarks made by legit pastors and church officials. Even where I live, which is a pretty liberal area. I am not saying they don't have every right to be anti-gay, but it is not like only cults masking as Christians preach homophobia.
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07-28-2010, 06:49 PM
Post: #7
RE: Insight Welcome
I'm not sure what anyone really means by the word "homophobia." Apparently for most it means anything short of condoning and praising homosexual behavior.

Yes, the Bible does condemn sinful behavior, and pastors do need to acknowledge this fact, but on the other hand, homosexual sin is just one of many forms sexual sin. God loves us all despite our sins, and God can rescue us from sinful habits if we are willing and if we have the patience and support from people around us.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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07-28-2010, 08:38 PM (This post was last modified: 07-28-2010 08:40 PM by mickiel.)
Post: #8
RE: Insight Welcome
(07-28-2010 06:49 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  I'm not sure what anyone really means by the word "homophobia." Apparently for most it means anything short of condoning and praising homosexual behavior.

Yes, the Bible does condemn sinful behavior, and pastors do need to acknowledge this fact, but on the other hand, homosexual sin is just one of many forms sexual sin. God loves us all despite our sins, and God can rescue us from sinful habits if we are willing and if we have the patience and support from people around us.

And what of those who were born homosexual? Granted, many are that by choice, but I believe just as many were born that way. How can we condemn how a person was born, they had no choice in the matter? Homosexuality can be a lust, a choice, but then a natural way of life for some.

So how does the believer explain and deal with that?

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07-28-2010, 09:38 PM
Post: #9
RE: Insight Welcome
(07-28-2010 06:49 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  I'm not sure what anyone really means by the word "homophobia." Apparently for most it means anything short of condoning and praising homosexual behavior.

Yes, the Bible does condemn sinful behavior, and pastors do need to acknowledge this fact, but on the other hand, homosexual sin is just one of many forms sexual sin. God loves us all despite our sins, and God can rescue us from sinful habits if we are willing and if we have the patience and support from people around us.

Well, Websters defines it as such,

"Pronunciation: \ˌhō-mə-ˈfō-bē-ə\
Function: noun
Date: 1969

: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homophobia

This definition can be sort of confusing, because I think most people in the church would say it is not the Irrational aversion, but a rational aversion. I think it is fine to preach against sin. But it does not seem like other sins are preached against as much. Divorce seems to be a bigger issue to me than the gays. You hear about how gay marriage would destroy the American family all the time, but Divorce seems to be what is really destroying the American Family structure.

I am not gay, I cant really say what it would feel like to be a gay person in America. But I know that gay people are just as much people as any straight person is. I think gay people are seen as being gay first and a person second. I have seen christian people, (I know, I Know, this is a instance of me blaming a whole group for the actions of individuals) talk to and treat gay people as though they are less than human. Like they are worthless. Diseased. They need to be "cured."

You (religious people) have every right to believe homosexuality is a sin. You have every right to believe gay people are sinful. But dont treat people like they are somehow less than you. I really think that if Jesus was real, and if Jesus could see how some of his people were treating other human being he would be sickened. I think people really need to stop and think about what Jesus would really do.

Obviously if I offended anyone, sorry, did not mean to.
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07-29-2010, 12:35 AM
Post: #10
RE: Insight Welcome
(07-28-2010 09:38 PM)CarolineBelle Wrote:  
(07-28-2010 06:49 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  I'm not sure what anyone really means by the word "homophobia." Apparently for most it means anything short of condoning and praising homosexual behavior.

Yes, the Bible does condemn sinful behavior, and pastors do need to acknowledge this fact, but on the other hand, homosexual sin is just one of many forms sexual sin. God loves us all despite our sins, and God can rescue us from sinful habits if we are willing and if we have the patience and support from people around us.

Well, Websters defines it as such,

"Pronunciation: \ˌhō-mə-ˈfō-bē-ə\
Function: noun
Date: 1969

: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homophobia

This definition can be sort of confusing, because I think most people in the church would say it is not the Irrational aversion, but a rational aversion. I think it is fine to preach against sin. But it does not seem like other sins are preached against as much. Divorce seems to be a bigger issue to me than the gays. You hear about how gay marriage would destroy the American family all the time, but Divorce seems to be what is really destroying the American Family structure.

I am not gay, I cant really say what it would feel like to be a gay person in America. But I know that gay people are just as much people as any straight person is. I think gay people are seen as being gay first and a person second. I have seen christian people, (I know, I Know, this is a instance of me blaming a whole group for the actions of individuals) talk to and treat gay people as though they are less than human. Like they are worthless. Diseased. They need to be "cured."

You (religious people) have every right to believe homosexuality is a sin. You have every right to believe gay people are sinful. But dont treat people like they are somehow less than you. I really think that if Jesus was real, and if Jesus could see how some of his people were treating other human being he would be sickened. I think people really need to stop and think about what Jesus would really do.

Obviously if I offended anyone, sorry, did not mean to.

I always ask myself what would Jesus do and most of the time I feel as if I act in a pretty close way to things of this nature. From the teachings of Jesus we learn that Jesus healed people and at the same time told people the will of God. Stuff like what is wrong and what is right. In today's world, it's hard to approach someone who is openly sinful without being persecuted by the law due to violations of some kind of civil right.

God Bless
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