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Is Christ the Angel of God's Presence?
07-12-2017, 06:23 PM
Post: #1
Is Christ the Angel of God's Presence?
How would you answer this question? Are there any scriptures that point to Jesus Christ being the Angel of God's Presence?
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07-12-2017, 09:56 PM
Post: #2
RE: Is Christ the Angel of God's Presence?
(07-12-2017 06:23 PM)Brother Rando Wrote:  How would you answer this question? Are there any scriptures that point to Jesus Christ being the Angel of God's Presence?

The Angel of the Presence appears to be the same as the Angel of the Lord, referenced a number of times in the OT. This being appears usually in the form of a man and speaks with the authority of God. How closely this being is identified with God varies. In Zechariah, the Lord and the Angel of the Lord have a conversation. In Exodus, the Angel of the Lord is within the burning bush but then it is the Lord himself who speaks to Moses from the bush.

Philo of Alexandria attempted to reconcile Jewish scripture with Middle Platonic philosophy. The Platonic god was remote from the world with creation being managed by a demiurge. Philo spoke of the Logos, the Word of God, also called the Son of God, as this intermediary and he connected this with the Angel of the Lord. The Son of God was God but also was somehow separate from God. Philo even called him the first angel.

Paul borrowed the terminology and general idea of Philo in calling Jesus the Son of God, if not the whole philosophy. For example, Philo would never imagine his Son of God living as a human being and getting killed.

Nowhere in the NT is Jesus specifically connected with the Angel of the Lord but the general notion might be inferred from Paul importing the ideas from Philo. Angel of the Lord => Philo’s Son of God => Jesus as Son of God.

And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price
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07-13-2017, 09:15 PM
Post: #3
RE: Is Christ the Angel of God's Presence?
(07-12-2017 09:56 PM)Imprecise Interrupt Wrote:  
(07-12-2017 06:23 PM)Brother Rando Wrote:  How would you answer this question? Are there any scriptures that point to Jesus Christ being the Angel of God's Presence?

The Angel of the Presence appears to be the same as the Angel of the Lord, referenced a number of times in the OT. This being appears usually in the form of a man and speaks with the authority of God. How closely this being is identified with God varies. In Zechariah, the Lord and the Angel of the Lord have a conversation. In Exodus, the Angel of the Lord is within the burning bush but then it is the Lord himself who speaks to Moses from the bush.

Philo of Alexandria attempted to reconcile Jewish scripture with Middle Platonic philosophy. The Platonic god was remote from the world with creation being managed by a demiurge. Philo spoke of the Logos, the Word of God, also called the Son of God, as this intermediary and he connected this with the Angel of the Lord. The Son of God was God but also was somehow separate from God. Philo even called him the first angel.

Paul borrowed the terminology and general idea of Philo in calling Jesus the Son of God, if not the whole philosophy. For example, Philo would never imagine his Son of God living as a human being and getting killed.

Nowhere in the NT is Jesus specifically connected with the Angel of the Lord but the general notion might be inferred from Paul importing the ideas from Philo. Angel of the Lord => Philo’s Son of God => Jesus as Son of God.

Nice answer... even though you didn't use any scriptures, you're on point. Angel of the Covenant, Angel of Wisdom is another but I was hoping you could pinpoint a scripture.
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11-10-2017, 08:33 PM
Post: #4
RE: Is Christ the Angel of God's Presence?
To reject Jesus Christ as the Angel of God’s Presence you would have to reject this scripture, the Word of God. “In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the Angel of his Presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bore them and carried them all the days of old.” (Isaiah 63:9 Darby)

1) You would have to reject that Jesus Christ was afflicted with our sins.

2) You would have to reject that Jesus Christ is our Salvation.

3) You would have to reject that Jesus Christ loved us or felt pity for us.

4) You would have to reject that Jesus Christ is our Redeemer.

5) You would have to reject that Jesus Christ died for our sins once and for all time.

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him” (Exodus 23:20-21 KJV)

Jesus when translated means ‘Jehovah is Salvation’. “For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’” (Matthew 23:39)
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