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Is God limited in influence and authority?
03-18-2010, 01:46 PM
Post: #1
Is God limited in influence and authority?
Is God limited in influence and authority?


Main Entry: 1om·nip·o·tent
Pronunciation: \-tənt\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin omnipotent-, omnipotens, from omni- + potent-, potens potent
Date: 14th century
1 often capitalized : almighty 1
2 : having virtually unlimited authority or influence <an omnipotent ruler>
3 obsolete : arrant
-----------------------------

In heaven before the earth was formed Satan wanting to be God would explain Satan's motivation for rebellion but what was the draw for the 1/3 of his fellow angels?

They could not be said to want to be Gods because they would be just exchanging one God or master for another. What motivated them to turn from God?

If God has unlimited influence, one would think that He could influence more than 2 out of 3 of His angels and the vast majority of humans yet most think that hell will be more populated than heaven and that God loses more souls than he wins.

Can you tell us what happened to His virtually unlimited authority and influence over the 1/3 of angels that would not accept this authority?

His unlimited authority and influence seems to be limited 2/3 of angels and some would say, most of mankind is also unaffected by His great influence and they certainly do not give Him authority.


Further, do you know why God would bring these traitors to earth to pester mankind instead of sending them straight to hell?

That seems like rather a strange move and history has shown it to be rather unprofitable for both God and man.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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03-18-2010, 02:07 PM
Post: #2
RE: Is God limited in influence and authority?
You seem to be expecting God to exercise brute force in every situation. According to the Bible, God does not do this--God gives his creatures space and time and free will, because God wants a relationship of mutual genuine love rather than some sort of authoritarian dictatorship.

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03-19-2010, 11:09 AM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2010 11:10 AM by Greatest I am.)
Post: #3
RE: Is God limited in influence and authority?
(03-18-2010 02:07 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  You seem to be expecting God to exercise brute force in every situation. According to the Bible, God does not do this--God gives his creatures space and time and free will, because God wants a relationship of mutual genuine love rather than some sort of authoritarian dictatorship.

Really.

Do it my way or burn forever is hardly free will. It is a threat.

Most of the O T says that you do not understand what you are talking about when it comes to God using brute force.

The genocide of Noah's day says you are way off base.
If that was not brute force then WTF was it?

Regards
DL
(03-18-2010 02:07 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  You seem to be expecting God to exercise brute force in every situation. According to the Bible, God does not do this--God gives his creatures space and time and free will, because God wants a relationship of mutual genuine love rather than some sort of authoritarian dictatorship.

Freedom cannot be given. It can only be taken.
God cannot give free will.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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03-19-2010, 11:15 AM
Post: #4
RE: Is God limited in influence and authority?
(03-18-2010 02:07 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  You seem to be expecting God to exercise brute force in every situation. According to the Bible, God does not do this--God gives his creatures space and time and free will, because God wants a relationship of mutual genuine love rather than some sort of authoritarian dictatorship.

God doesn't need to exercise brute force Stereo, just a simple thought on His part and all problems solved. When things go wrong in another couple of millenia, just another wink. Very easy for GOD don't you think?

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03-19-2010, 12:16 PM
Post: #5
RE: Is God limited in influence and authority?
When I say "brute force," I refer more to the impact it has on us rather than to the amount of effort it requires of God. God steps back and gives us room to move and exercise our freedom, and God does this because God is interested in a genuine relationship with us--a relationship where we get to call at least some of the shots. But there will be a time when God does step in and eliminate all forces of evil. Until that time, Christians are supposed to be salt and light in the world as it is now, in all its susceptibility to corruption and decay and evil.

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03-19-2010, 01:21 PM
Post: #6
RE: Is God limited in influence and authority?
(03-19-2010 12:16 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  When I say "brute force," I refer more to the impact it has on us rather than to the amount of effort it requires of God. God steps back and gives us room to move and exercise our freedom, and God does this because God is interested in a genuine relationship with us--a relationship where we get to call at least some of the shots. But there will be a time when God does step in and eliminate all forces of evil. Until that time, Christians are supposed to be salt and light in the world as it is now, in all its susceptibility to corruption and decay and evil.

i agree... good answer.
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03-19-2010, 01:55 PM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2010 01:59 PM by Greatest I am.)
Post: #7
RE: Is God limited in influence and authority?
(03-19-2010 12:16 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  When I say "brute force," I refer more to the impact it has on us rather than to the amount of effort it requires of God. God steps back and gives us room to move and exercise our freedom, and God does this because God is interested in a genuine relationship with us--a relationship where we get to call at least some of the shots. But there will be a time when God does step in and eliminate all forces of evil. Until that time, Christians are supposed to be salt and light in the world as it is now, in all its susceptibility to corruption and decay and evil.

We can call some of the shots.

His way or burn forever. A clear choice and many options.
Well, not many but a few, well not a few but, I take it back.

Regards
DL
(03-19-2010 01:21 PM)jwitness Wrote:  
(03-19-2010 12:16 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  When I say "brute force," I refer more to the impact it has on us rather than to the amount of effort it requires of God. God steps back and gives us room to move and exercise our freedom, and God does this because God is interested in a genuine relationship with us--a relationship where we get to call at least some of the shots. But there will be a time when God does step in and eliminate all forces of evil. Until that time, Christians are supposed to be salt and light in the world as it is now, in all its susceptibility to corruption and decay and evil.

i agree... good answer.

Why would God, the creator of evil and sin want to eliminate them.

Scripture says that He creates all things in a perfect way so why would He eliminate some of His perfect works?

Ephesians 3:8-10
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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03-19-2010, 02:07 PM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2010 02:08 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #8
RE: Is God limited in influence and authority?
(03-19-2010 01:55 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...His way or burn forever. A clear choice...

There you go again with the straw man arguments...


(03-19-2010 01:55 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Scripture says that He creates all things in a perfect way so why would He eliminate some of His perfect works?...

You've already been shown that the creation was created "very good" (not perfect) according to the first two chapters of Genesis. As I said previously, the "perfect" thing for God to do was to create a "very good" world which would leave room for human freedom and meaningful human work--that is, the free exercise of our own creative abilities. If God had created the world already perfect, there would have been nothing meaningful remaining for humans to do.

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03-19-2010, 02:20 PM
Post: #9
RE: Is God limited in influence and authority?
Quote:
(03-19-2010 02:07 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  
(03-19-2010 01:55 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...His way or burn forever. A clear choice...

There you go again with the straw man arguments...

[censored] you with your evasion of an issue by lying about what it is.
Refute it or shut up about it.


(03-19-2010 01:55 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...Scripture says that He creates all things in a perfect way so why would He eliminate some of His perfect works?...

You've already been shown that the creation was created "very good" (not perfect) according to the first two chapters of Genesis. As I said previously, the "perfect" thing for God to do was to create a "very good" world which would leave room for human freedom and meaningful human work--that is, the free exercise of our own creative abilities. If God had created the world already perfect, there would have been nothing meaningful remaining for humans to do.

Only if you use the word perfect as a finished stagnant product.

In the American language, as opposed to the English language, perfect does not necessarily mean excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement; entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings or unqualified; absolute. In American, there can be degrees of perfection.

The Preamble to the United States Constitution wrote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union ...


Jesse Jackson, Jr. wrote a book, A More Perfect Union: Advancing New American Rights.
"A More Perfect Union" is the name of a speech delivered by the Senator for Illinois, Barack Obama () on March 18, 2008 in the course of the contest for the 2008 Democratic Party presidential nomination.
Scott Mutter, an American photographer, has a gallery called, A More Perfect World.
Cynthia Nolan, at the annual meeting of the International Studies Association, San Diego, California, USA on Mar 22, 2006 presented a paper entitled "More Perfect Oversight: Intelligence Oversight and Reform".

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect:

This says perfect and is as good a quote as yours. Yours has no more authority than this one. If you reject it I can reject yours.

What is more logical to you?
That God does good work or perfect work?
Show you can think as well as thump.

The way I see things is that God began in a state of perfection in a perfect universe. He then added all we see without destroying the initial perfection, or back sliding into imperfection.

Have faith in your God or do like many Christians and see Him as a loser.

Is God and His works perfect.

The way many Christian see God is to see Him screwing up heaven with evil.
Strike one.
They then see God screwing up man's beginning in Eden.
Strike two.
They then see God cleaning house in Noah's day with Genocide and starting over.
Strike three.
They now wait for His return at end time to clean house yet again.
Strike four.

Strike four?

God plays by His own rules I guess.

You and I both know that this view must be false if God‘s works are as perfect as scripture indicates.

To my way of thinking, God gets things right the first time and every time.

This is why He has not and will not return. His perfect systems are here today the same way that they were here in the beginning. He judged Eden as good.

It is just to us to see it. I do. Even with sin and evil and woes, all is perfect and humming along exactly as God wants it to. I call it evolving perfection.

Did your version of God get it right or does He need to return to fix things?

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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03-19-2010, 03:41 PM
Post: #10
RE: Is God limited in influence and authority?
(03-19-2010 02:20 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...[censored] you with your evasion of an issue by lying about what it is...Refute it or shut up about it.

As so often the case when uneducated folks bash scripture, they are bashing the most woodenly literal interpretations (and these are often the only interpretations uneducated folks know about). So in the end, all you end up doing is showing that woodenly literal interpretations are easy to bash.


(03-19-2010 02:20 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  ...This says perfect and is as good a quote as yours. Yours has no more authority than this one. If you reject it I can reject yours...

Again, you are forcing meaning onto words without any consideration for context. This is precisely the mark of woodenly literal interpretations--which, as I demonstrated earlier, are pretty easy to bash.

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