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Is Heaven only for the Righteous?
12-17-2009, 01:01 AM
Post: #1
Is Heaven only for the Righteous?
I got into an argument the other day about whether or not "most" people today would make it into heaven.

I argue that most people make no effort to change and become better, so those people will go to hell. Most people just sin casually as if it is nothing and then go to church on Sunday. Those kind of people all think that just because they "believe" that they are entitled to a place in heaven.
(Please note that I think the worship of Jesus is a sin! Of course for misguided people I believe in reincarnation, for people that are just plain evil I believe in hell. And heaven is a place that very few every make it.)



So I was wondering if a very evil person converted to Christianity before they died would they go to heaven?
(I don't think they would unless they had a resolve to change for the better.)

Is heaven only for the Righteous?
(In some ways I think it is, not that you have to be blameless but that you need to have repented or atoned for any sin and that you need to change for the better.)

Can some one continue to sin and still get into heaven?
(I keep arguing with some one about this, they think they can keep sinning because of "the blood of Christ" but I think that if you claim to be a Christian you need to try to stop sinning.)

Is a belief in Jesus a requirement to get into heaven?
(More specifically that Jesus is either gods son or god.
I don't think Jesus is god do you think I am going to hell?
I think that you must worship One God, and either live a blameless life or Repent before you die in order to get into heaven.)

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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12-17-2009, 06:12 AM (This post was last modified: 12-17-2009 06:23 AM by catholicstation.)
Post: #2
RE: Is Heaven only for the Righteous?
One Mortal Sin is not any worse than another - The Penalty is the same

Mortal sin destroys our union with God and the presence of sanctifying grace in our souls. Because these are heinous actions in the eyes of God, for a person to knowingly and willingly commit them indicates a turning away from the love of God. Anyone conscious of a mortal sin must undergo an interior conversion and then receive forgiveness and absolution through the sacrament of penance.
See:Saint Paul - (Saul)

On the other hand, venial sin denotes either an act of a less serious matter, or one which involves grave matter but is performed without full knowledge or complete consent of the will.


Sadly, some individuals misconstrue the fundamental option in such a way there are no particular mortal sins. Instead, the one "mortal sin" which would take a soul to hell is for a person to willingly, knowingly reject God and His love entirely. Such a stance would reduce fundamental option to some psychological game, whereby a person says, "I love God. I do not reject God. My individual choices or particular actions do not affect my total being. Therefore, although I committed adultery, or murdered someone, or fornicated, or robbed the bank, (or committed any other mortal sin), God still loves me, I love God, and I think I am going to heaven." Think again.

WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO MORTAL SIN?
Fr. William Saunders
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/MORTSIN.htm

----------------------------------------------------------
Let me ask You a question

How much of a tyrant would G-D be if He forced someone whom hated G-D to spend Eternity serving Him?
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12-17-2009, 08:34 PM
Post: #3
RE: Is Heaven only for the Righteous?
(12-17-2009 06:12 AM)catholicstation Wrote:  One Mortal Sin is not any worse than another - The Penalty is the same

Mortal sin destroys our union with God and the presence of sanctifying grace in our souls. Because these are heinous actions in the eyes of God, for a person to knowingly and willingly commit them indicates a turning away from the love of God. Anyone conscious of a mortal sin must undergo an interior conversion and then receive forgiveness and absolution through the sacrament of penance.
See:Saint Paul - (Saul)

On the other hand, venial sin denotes either an act of a less serious matter, or one which involves grave matter but is performed without full knowledge or complete consent of the will.


Sadly, some individuals misconstrue the fundamental option in such a way there are no particular mortal sins. Instead, the one "mortal sin" which would take a soul to hell is for a person to willingly, knowingly reject God and His love entirely. Such a stance would reduce fundamental option to some psychological game, whereby a person says, "I love God. I do not reject God. My individual choices or particular actions do not affect my total being. Therefore, although I committed adultery, or murdered someone, or fornicated, or robbed the bank, (or committed any other mortal sin), God still loves me, I love God, and I think I am going to heaven." Think again.

WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO MORTAL SIN?
Fr. William Saunders
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/MORTSIN.htm

----------------------------------------------------------
Let me ask You a question

How much of a tyrant would G-D be if He forced someone whom hated G-D to spend Eternity serving Him?

If god forced us to love him that would be evil, though from my stand point angels are created to serve god as slaves. An angel who gains free-will is a demon. A demon who decides to do the will of god is rare.
I don't think all demons hate god, in fact I think the most evil demons love god they have just been twisted by their own sin. So the worse punishment for some one that loves god is to be separated from her and her kingdom. Angels are created to serve god, but god does not force them to continue serving her.

I believe in a god that loves people/souls so much that she protects our freewill.

If some one felt that god wanted them to become a priest/teacher, then would it be wrong to ignore that if they truly didn't want to?

If a person made a vow to god is it unbreakable or does god allow for people to undo a promise?
Does breaking a vow to god condemn some one to hell?

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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01-12-2010, 02:16 PM
Post: #4
RE: Is Heaven only for the Righteous?
But would Hell be eternal for some sinners?
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01-16-2010, 09:31 PM
Post: #5
RE: Is Heaven only for the Righteous?
(01-12-2010 02:16 PM)Ahmadi Wrote:  But would Hell be eternal for some sinners?

Yes in a since, but my idea of hell is that the soul ceases to exist.

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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01-18-2010, 06:51 AM
Post: #6
RE: Is Heaven only for the Righteous?
Azrael17 thank you for offering eternal hell for sinners like me! But I know you are a Gnostic. So, I am not so scared yet. What I want to find out is that if I do not believe in Jesus Christ to be part of the Trinity, would I burn in hell for eternity, according to the Catholic and Protestant belief?

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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01-18-2010, 06:59 AM
Post: #7
RE: Is Heaven only for the Righteous?
(01-18-2010 06:51 AM)Ahmadi Wrote:  What I want to find out is that if I do not believe in Jesus Christ to be part of the Trinity, would I burn in hell for eternity, according to the Catholic and Protestant belief?

According to some Protestant traditions, Yes. According to Catholic teaching, No. In Catholicism, the only theologically based qualification for non-Christians getting sent to hell is understanding the message of Jesus, intellectually accepting it but rejecting it in practice, that is, refusing to become a Christian. Other than that it is all about living morally in a manner one truly believes is moral.

Of course Catholics are themselves a special case, having been 'branded' by Catholic Baptism. Believing specifically Catholic dogma and following specifically Catholic practices are mandatory.
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01-18-2010, 10:10 AM
Post: #8
RE: Is Heaven only for the Righteous?
Thanks Parousia

Requesting a further clarification. If a non-believer is condemned to hell, how long would it be, according to the Protestant and Catholic tradition?

Thanks once again!

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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01-18-2010, 10:14 AM
Post: #9
RE: Is Heaven only for the Righteous?
I know only a little about this so correct me if I am wrong. There are some denominations that believe in a predestined path set by God, meaning no matter what you do in life your outcome, of either heaven or hell, will be the same.

So yes someone who has been bad all his life and converts before he dies could go to heaven, based on this idea. And there sins would not matter.

Again I am not 100% sure on this and please correct me if this comment is wrong, I would like to learn more.
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01-18-2010, 10:44 AM
Post: #10
RE: Is Heaven only for the Righteous?
(01-18-2010 10:14 AM)aManWhoWonders Wrote:  I know only a little about this so correct me if I am wrong. There are some denominations that believe in a predestined path set by God, meaning no matter what you do in life your outcome, of either heaven or hell, will be the same.

So yes someone who has been bad all his life and converts before he dies could go to heaven, based on this idea. And there sins would not matter.

Again I am not 100% sure on this and please correct me if this comment is wrong, I would like to learn more.

No, predestination means either that:

You only think you have free will, God is really doing everything
In that case what is the point of reward or punishment?

or

No matter what you do, God decided at the begining of time where you are going no matter what, so sin and repentance are both meaningless.
In that case what is the point of reward or punishment?
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