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Is celibacy going to gradually go away
01-12-2010, 10:15 PM
Post: #1
Is celibacy going to gradually go away
It seems that there is increasing emphasis on sex in all societies. There is increase in the number of sexual partners and increasing STDs. Perhaps television and movies are to blame.

Does this reflect in fewer people coming forth to adopt monastic life style? Was this part of the consideration in recent negotiation between Roman Catholic Church and the Anglecan church?

If the answers to these questions are yes, are we to assume that celibacy as an institution will go away?

Just curious!
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01-12-2010, 10:34 PM
Post: #2
RE: Is celibacy going to gradually go away
The Roman Catholic-Anglican agreement has put certain Anglican parishes under the Church's own wing. It is not ruled over by our bishops, run by our priests. They have a special observer straight from the Vatican who reports to the Pope what is going on in these Anglican parishes and how coordinated they are when it comes to the Church.

I was recently watching TV and there was a priest actually lecturing on this exact topic, he said that there are not enough priests these days because of a modern Sexual Revolution. The church will not change its stance of celibacy, as those who cannot give away some sins may not give away others. A priest's family is his congregation and all his heart should be dedicated to this work and to no other.
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01-13-2010, 07:40 AM
Post: #3
RE: Is celibacy going to gradually go away
Somethig that really annoys me about many major religions is that they try to convince us to actively repress the very things that make us human. I am of courese NOT suggesting we all go sleeping around and having spontaneous orgies each day, but the idea of celebacy completely represses one of the most instinctual parts of being human.

Television and movies are not to blame, but to thank. If you are a sensible person that uses protection and does not sleep around all over the place with everyone they meet, there is nothing wrond wih sex, and it is natural. The rise in STDs is not all to do with more people having sex, but to do with how ill educated they are because of years of religious repression making it a taboo. People will have sex regardless (As i said before, it is instinctual, human)so if they simply were never told about some of the more complex things going on, they will do it anyway. Telling people not to do it NEVER works. People need education.

The person that is truly happy is not the one who gets everything they want, but the one who learns to be happy with what they have.
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01-13-2010, 08:01 AM
Post: #4
RE: Is celibacy going to gradually go away
I agree with some of your ideas and that adds a new and useful perspective to the discussion.

I do believe that human instincts are given by God for a reason and do not need to be completely suppressed, but regulated. In principle both of us agree. You are regulating with the use of condoms. There was a time when there were no condoms, so obviously regulation then meant something else. In present day people may have other reasons for regulating different 'instincts.'

Can we please have a separate thread about television, STDs, condoms and instincts etc and leave this thread pure for discussion of celibacy or monasticism.

Cheers and every one have a good day!
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01-16-2010, 09:41 PM
Post: #5
RE: Is celibacy going to gradually go away
(01-13-2010 08:01 AM)Ahmadi Wrote:  I agree with some of your ideas and that adds a new and useful perspective to the discussion.

I do believe that human instincts are given by God for a reason and do not need to be completely suppressed, but regulated. In principle both of us agree. You are regulating with the use of condoms. There was a time when there were no condoms, so obviously regulation then meant something else. In present day people may have other reasons for regulating different 'instincts.'

Can we please have a separate thread about television, STDs, condoms and instincts etc and leave this thread pure for discussion of celibacy or monasticism.

Cheers and every one have a good day!

I believe that you should remain celibate until married.
To lose your virginity before marriage is a sin.
If you take a vow of chastity and break it then you have sinned.

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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01-16-2010, 09:47 PM
Post: #6
RE: Is celibacy going to gradually go away
(01-16-2010 09:41 PM)Azrael17 Wrote:  If you take a vow of chastity and break it then you have sinned.

Please also tell us if you think in coming decades, these vows of chastity going to go away, and the Catholic Church going to yield that it does not need to have celibate or unmarried priests.

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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01-16-2010, 10:21 PM (This post was last modified: 01-17-2010 12:07 AM by Venedi Sporoi.)
Post: #7
RE: Is celibacy going to gradually go away
A long time ago, there was a different sort of rationale for the regulation of sex. Blood-ties and kinship were very important to early communities, and the manner in which blood mingled was a less personal matter. There is also the the very Stoic mindset that the passions of the body are to be spurned in favor of asceticism, which was common to intellectuals of the ancient world, and persists today. Today, I don't see that any of these reasons apply overmuch. I think that prior to marriage, some allowances are to be made. Even between atheists though, when it comes to marriage, one should at least hold their word sacred.
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01-18-2010, 12:23 PM (This post was last modified: 01-18-2010 12:24 PM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #8
RE: Is celibacy going to gradually go away
Proper use of all God given instincts is encouraged in Islam. That is why God gave those instincts or faculties to us.
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo Galilei
This is my chance to introduce to you a book, 'Philosophy of the teachings of Islam.' It is an epoch making and legendary lecture and a book from 1896 by:
Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (The Founder of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community)
Translated into English by Sir Muhammad Zafrulla Khan
(Former Foreign Minister of Pakistan, President of the U.N. General Assembly & The International Court of Justice at The Hague)
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Phi...-Islam.pdf
Part of the introduction of the book is included here:

A person by the name of Swami Sadhu Shugan Chandra had spent three or four years of his life attempting to reform the Kaaisth Hindu caste. In 1892 he came to the conclusion that unless people were gathered together under one roof, his efforts would be in vain. He therefore proposed to convene a religious conference, with the first one taking place in 1892 in Ajmer. In 1896, considering Lahore to be a suitable venue, he began preparations for the second such religious conference Swami Sahib appointed a committee to oversee the arrangements. Master Durgah Parshad was president of the committee, and Lala Dhanpat Roy, BA, LLB, its chief secretary. The dates chosen for the convention were 26-28 December 1896.
...
The committee invited the learned representatives of Muslims, Christians and Aryas to set forth the excellences of their respective faiths. The objective of the Conference of Great Religions, to be held at the Lahore Town Hall, was that the excellences and the merits of the true religion be espoused in a gathering of cultured people and that its love be instilled in their hearts and that they become well acquainted with its arguments and proofs. The learned divines of every religion would thus be given the opportunity to convince others of the truth of their respective religions, while the listeners would be able to assess each speech in relation to the others and accept the truth from wherever it was to be found.

Disputes between the followers of different religions have given rise to the desire to seek the true faith. This is best achieved by bringing together the learned preachers and teachers so that they may, in the context of a few published questions, set forth the beauties of their respective faiths. In such a conference, the true religion from God will definitely become patent.

This is the objective of the conference. Every learned teacher and preacher knows that he is duty-bound to make evident the verities of his faith. The conference is being held so that the truth may become manifest and it is thus a God-given opportunity for them (the learned divines) to fulfil this objective. Such opportunities are not always available to us. Prevailing upon them further, Swami Sahib wrote:
If a person sees another suffering from a fatal disease, and he firmly believes that he holds the cure for the disease, and he also claims to have sympathy for the human race, then how is it possible for him to intentionally turn away when called upon to provide a remedy? My heart is filled with the desire to know which religion is the one replete with truth. I have not the words to express my fervour.
Representatives of various religions accepted Swami Sahib's invitation, and the Conference of Great Religions was held during the Christmas holidays of 1896. Each of the speakers was required to address five questions published in advance by the committee. The committee also stipulated that, as far as possible, each speaker should confine his answers to the holy book of his religion.
The questions were:
1. The physical, moral and spiritual states of man.
2. What is the state of man after death, i.e. the hereafter?
3. What is the true purpose of man's existence on earth and how can it be achieved?
4. What are the affects of one's deeds in this life and the after life?
5. What are the sources of divine knowledge?

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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01-22-2010, 04:59 PM
Post: #9
RE: Is celibacy going to gradually go away
This is what the Holy Quran says about Monasticism, note the generosity of spirit and fairness:

"Then We caused Our Messengers to follow in their footsteps; and We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow them, and We gave him the Gospel. And We placed in the hearts of those who accepted him compassion and mercy. But monasticism which they invented for themselves — We did not prescribe it for them — for the seeking of Allah’s pleasure; but they did not observe it with due observance. Yet We gave those of them who believed their due reward, but many of them are rebellious." (Al Quran 57:28)

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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01-27-2010, 05:20 PM
Post: #10
RE: Is celibacy going to gradually go away
(01-12-2010 10:15 PM)Ahmadi Wrote:  It seems that there is increasing emphasis on sex in all societies. There is increase in the number of sexual partners and increasing STDs. Perhaps television and movies are to blame.

Does this reflect in fewer people coming forth to adopt monastic life style? Was this part of the consideration in recent negotiation between Roman Catholic Church and the Anglecan church?

If the answers to these questions are yes, are we to assume that celibacy as an institution will go away?

Just curious!

I don't think that celibacy is going away. I've decided to stay virgin for life, for instance. Not that I censure those that have sex. It's just a very personal choice. And I'm ready to join a religious community living in strict chastity.
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