Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Is the Bible a Polytheistic Text that was mistranslated?
07-11-2017, 05:02 PM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2017 05:05 PM by Eloh.)
Post: #1
Is the Bible a Polytheistic Text that was mistranslated?
I am sorry if this view of Bible bothers you but this is my view of it, and I am not a Christian, but I talk with Iesous a lot. I am just me being me.

I transliterated the names of Elohim(Gods).

I think YaHuWeH is a naturalistic deity, that uses statements of incomparability (example: "Thus saith YaHuWeH the King and redeemer of Israel, YaHuWeH of Armies; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." - Isaiah 44:6), but there are many Gods.

“Elohim stand in the assembly of El(God);
He judges among Elohim.
How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked?
Defend the poor and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Deliver the poor and needy;
Free them from the hand of the wicked.
They do not know, nor do they understand;
They walk about in ‘darkness’;
All the foundations of the earth are unstable.
I said, ‘You are Elohim, and all of you are sons of Elyon(Most High).
But you shall die like Adam, and fall as but only princes.’
Arise, O Elohim, judge the earth;
For Ye shall inherit all nations.” - Psalm 82

"For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all [the] Elohim of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am YaHuWeH." - Exodus 12:12

"For the Egyptians buried all their firstborn, which YaHuWeH had smitten among them: upon their Elohim also YaHuWeH executed judgments." - Numbers 33:4

“When [El] Elyon divided an inheritance as the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, the bounds of the people were set according to the number of the (70) sons of El. And YaHuWeH's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.” - Deuteronomy 32:8-9

“The original one created Elohim(Gods), with the heavens and with the land, and the land was without form, and the Void-Darkness was above the abyss. And Ruach of Elohim(Gods) moved upon the face of the waters.” - Genesis 1:1-2

“For Elohim(Gods) know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened with knowing good and evil, ye shall become like Elohim(Gods).” - Genesis 3:5

“And the angel answered, and said to her, from above Ruach HaKodesh shall come over thee, and Gevurah of HaElyon shall overshadow thee; and therefore that holy one that shall be born forth from thee, shall be called Ben El.” - Luke 1:35 (Hebrew version of Luke was used for the Hebrew names)

“And Ruach [of] YaHuWeH shall rest upon him, Ruach Chokhmah(Wisdom) and with [Ruach] Binah(Understanding), Ruach Etzah(Advice) and with [Ruach] Gevurah(Virtue), Ruach Da’at(Knowledge) and with [Ruach] Yirat Elohim(the reverence for the Gods)” - Isaiah 11:2

“Who is like unto thee, YaHuWeH, among Elim? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?” - Exodus 15:11

“And I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob with the El Shaddai, and my name is YHWH, I did not make myself known to them.” - Exodus 6:3

“I am HaEl Beit-El, where thou anointed the pillar, and where thou made a vow unto me: now arise, get thee out from this land, and return unto the land of thy kindred.” - Genesis 31:13

“And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of El Elyon.” - Genesis 14:18

“And she called the name of the Lord who spoke unto her, El Roi, for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?” - Genesis 16:13

“And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, YaHuWeH appeared to Abram, and said(lied) unto him, I am El Shaddai; walk before me, and be thou perfect.” - Genesis 17:1

“And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of HaEl Olam.” - Genesis 21:33

“Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: I, as thy Elohim exists, am HaEl [of] Kanna(Cana), visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;” - Exodus 20:5

“For El Rachum is of thy Elohim; he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.” - Deuteronomy 4:31

“[For as] Tzur(Stone) his work is perfect for all his ways are judgment: El of Emunah is without iniquity, he is righteous and just.” - Deuteronomy 32:4

“There is none like unto HaEl of Yeshurun, who rideth upon the heaven in thy help, and in his excellency on the sky.” - Deuteronomy 33:26

“And Joshua said, Hereby ye shall know that HaEl of Chai is among you, and that he will without fail drive out from before you the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Hivites, and the Perizzites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Jebusites.” - Joshua 3:10

“Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are Bnei HaEl of Chai” - Hosea 1:10

“And when all the men of the tower of Shechem heard that, they entered into the stronghold of the house of HaEl of Berith.” - Judges 9:46

“Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for HaEl of De’ot exists, and by him actions are weighed.” - 1 Samuel 2:3
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-11-2017, 06:10 PM
Post: #2
RE: Is the Bible a Polytheistic Text that was mistranslated?
You could boil the entire cut and paste down to one item: the First Commandment, which reads (in various wordings) "I am the Lord your God; you shall have no other gods before me."

The first part explains that THIS god claims to be The One™ for you (the people being addressed).

The second part indicates there are other gods, but you are to regard them as secondary at best.

Note that this does not prohibit one from worshiping other gods, as long as they recognize The Lord as supreme over the others.

One might very well imagine one of the other gods telling his select group of people, "Hey, I'm Tony and I'm the top dog around here. Don't be paying vig to nobody else, capiche?"

So which one(s), in reality, is the greater?

When someone asks "What would Jesus do?" remind them that flipping tables and chasing people with a whip is entirely possible.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-11-2017, 07:30 PM
Post: #3
RE: Is the Bible a Polytheistic Text that was mistranslated?
(07-11-2017 06:10 PM)Caesar Saladin Wrote:  You could boil the entire cut and paste down to one item: the First Commandment, which reads (in various wordings) "I am the Lord your God; you shall have no other gods before me."

The first part explains that THIS god claims to be The One™ for you (the people being addressed).

The second part indicates there are other gods, but you are to regard them as secondary at best.

Note that this does not prohibit one from worshiping other gods, as long as they recognize The Lord as supreme over the others.

One might very well imagine one of the other gods telling his select group of people, "Hey, I'm Tony and I'm the top dog around here. Don't be paying vig to nobody else, capiche?"

So which one(s), in reality, is the greater?

I was avoiding that because it could mean to many different things by itself
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-11-2017, 09:43 PM
Post: #4
RE: Is the Bible a Polytheistic Text that was mistranslated?
Eloh Wrote:I am not a Christian, but I talk with Iesous a lot

Explain?

Anyway, my thought is:

There is indeed "one God", but the word is Elohim. It leaves open the possibility that there is merely a "united plurality of gods" because of the meaning of that term.

We shall not have gods above that Elohim, but the Elohim may be plural because the term is plural.

The plurality is confirmed in the New Testament. The Old Testament or Tanakh does mention a Word and a Spirit (or Breath), and this suggests a third higher authority who sends them forth. The New Testament affirms that the Word is Jesus, and that the Holy Spirit is third, and that both are sent from the Father who is above them. They are declared "one" but in the same way that we can be one with ourselves and one with them.

Concluding that the "oneness" must be homoousian according to Trinitarian dogma is not actually the most simple understanding of this.

"To yield and give way to our passions is the lowest slavery, even as to rule over them is the only liberty." -Justin Martyr
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-13-2017, 08:03 PM
Post: #5
RE: Is the Bible a Polytheistic Text that was mistranslated?
Mistranslated by everybody for the last 2,000 years, and not one of them familiar enough with the biblical languages to do a reasonable job of it, you mean?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-14-2017, 12:05 AM
Post: #6
RE: Is the Bible a Polytheistic Text that was mistranslated?
(07-13-2017 08:03 PM)Anglican Wrote:  Mistranslated by everybody for the last 2,000 years, and not one of them familiar enough with the biblical languages to do a reasonable job of it, you mean?

No, mistranslated because their theology gets in the way.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-14-2017, 05:44 AM (This post was last modified: 07-14-2017 05:45 AM by Anglican.)
Post: #7
RE: Is the Bible a Polytheistic Text that was mistranslated?
(07-14-2017 12:05 AM)Eloh Wrote:  
(07-13-2017 08:03 PM)Anglican Wrote:  Mistranslated by everybody for the last 2,000 years, and not one of them familiar enough with the biblical languages to do a reasonable job of it, you mean?

No, mistranslated because their theology gets in the way.

If that were the case, I am sure atheists like Bart Ehrman, who can read biblical Greek, would have wasted no time in pointing itout.

And before anybody says that Ehrman is an agnostic, not an atheist: According to the man himself, he is agnostic about the existence of god(s) in general, but an atheist with respect to the specifically Judeo-Christian God.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-14-2017, 06:59 AM
Post: #8
RE: Is the Bible a Polytheistic Text that was mistranslated?
(07-14-2017 05:44 AM)Anglican Wrote:  
(07-14-2017 12:05 AM)Eloh Wrote:  
(07-13-2017 08:03 PM)Anglican Wrote:  Mistranslated by everybody for the last 2,000 years, and not one of them familiar enough with the biblical languages to do a reasonable job of it, you mean?

No, mistranslated because their theology gets in the way.

If that were the case, I am sure atheists like Bart Ehrman, who can read biblical Greek, would have wasted no time in pointing itout.

And before anybody says that Ehrman is an agnostic, not an atheist: According to the man himself, he is agnostic about the existence of god(s) in general, but an atheist with respect to the specifically Judeo-Christian God.

It is biblical Hebrew that is needed, not Greek. Here is some commentary on polytheism morphing into monotheism in Jewish scriptures. However I am unable to find translations anywhere that match the translations presented in the article. They also seem doubtful to me. The translation given for Psalm 29 is especially problematic as the substitution of heavenly figures for earthly ones in the first verse does not match the context at all. The Psalm works well as a call for people to worship Yahweh since it talks about Yahweh's lordship over earthly things.

It seems that what constitutes a translation and what a mistranslation depends on the conclusion one wishes to reach. As always with scriptural analysis, context is a key concern, not individual words.

And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price
You have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice
Dylan
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-14-2017, 12:13 PM (This post was last modified: 07-14-2017 12:34 PM by Achrelos.)
Post: #9
RE: Is the Bible a Polytheistic Text that was mistranslated?
Quote:It seems that what constitutes a translation and what a mistranslation depends on the conclusion one wishes to reach. As always with scriptural analysis, context is a key concern, not individual words.

I think to a large extent your first sentence is true. Even Jews themselves may want to ignore a past if it were rooted in anything other than monotheism, which I don't know enough to say it is or isn't. There does seem to be a real and odd discrepancy though with the use of El vs Elohim. I know nothing of Hebrew but applying what I do know of languages if a plural form refers to a singular thing then it usually only appears in the plural, or if it does alternate contexts usually systematically dictate how and why. I can't really say it does or doesn't since I dont know Hebrew of any form, just food for thought that regardless of who is right or wrong there must be a reason these individual words are chosen, since language tends to be picky that way.

Ištu dumqim amqut, u anaku anmiq
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-14-2017, 01:39 PM
Post: #10
RE: Is the Bible a Polytheistic Text that was mistranslated?
(07-14-2017 12:13 PM)Achrelos Wrote:  
Quote:It seems that what constitutes a translation and what a mistranslation depends on the conclusion one wishes to reach. As always with scriptural analysis, context is a key concern, not individual words.

I think to a large extent your first sentence is true. Even Jews themselves may want to ignore a past if it were rooted in anything other than monotheism, which I don't know enough to say it is or isn't. There does seem to be a real and odd discrepancy though with the use of El vs Elohim. I know nothing of Hebrew but applying what I do know of languages if a plural form refers to a singular thing then it usually only appears in the plural, or if it does alternate contexts usually systematically dictate how and why. I can't really say it does or doesn't since I dont know Hebrew of any form, just food for thought that regardless of who is right or wrong there must be a reason these individual words are chosen, since language tends to be picky that way.

In ancient times, each nation often had its own pantheon and religion, usually with divine authority invested in the ruler. Early Judaism appears to have been monolatristic, worshiping one god but not denying the existence of others just as they did not deny the existence of other nations.

It is likely during the Babylonian Exile, when the Jewish upper class and intelligentsia were forced into close proximity with a foreign religion, that a strict monotheism came about by reaction. To preserve the integrity of Judaism in a foreign nation it was necessary to deny the real existence of other gods. Genesis 1 appears to be a statement of Jewish theology phrased in themes from Babylonian mythology turned upside down. Thinking about Babylonian myths would redirect that thought back into Judaism.

And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price
You have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice
Dylan
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Which Bible is the most accurate according to the Biblical text we have to use today? onegod 20 1,751 11-27-2016 08:05 AM
Last Post: captainbryce



User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)