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Is the Bible such an air-tight foolproof book?
05-10-2017, 10:00 PM
Post: #1
Is the Bible such an air-tight foolproof book?
Ok, my whole adult life, I've always had some doubts about religion. I grew up in a Christian family but we rarely went to church. But my parents made sure I know Jesus was our savior.

We attend a non-denominational church. A few weeks ago, I went on a church retreat. I was really hoping it would make me feel more religious and connected. But, in reality, I felt completely out of place, I felt like I distanced myself further from religion, I came back home more confused than ever on religion. I am the kind of person when faced with a problem, I need to solve it. I need 100% concrete definite answers and I don't rest until I figure the problem at hand out. So, now I am faced with this problem of religion.

How do I know Christianity is right? Sadly, a large part of my religious believes all go back to when I was a teenager watching a Simpsons episode. Bart didn't want to go to church. He says to his parents who's to say Christianity is right? There are a ton of religions in the world and who's to say that maybe we're wrong and we're going to church every Sunday making god madder and madder.

It totally made sense to me. Who's to say that Christianity is right and everyone else is wrong? The only reason I side towards Christianity is because I was born in the US where Christianity is the prevailing religion. I could've been born in a Muslim country where my parents told me that was right and I wouldn't thought anything of it.

After coming back from the church retreat, I was mad at life and needed an answer right then. My mom gave me the book years ago "case for christ." I never read it. I was thinking about reading it when I saw the movie was in theatres. I grabbed my wife and we went and saw it that night. I came back and thought maybe the religion is real.

Well, after the movie, I read the book. The book again distanced me from Christianity. The problem with all of the case studies is the evidence is the Bible. This passage is true because of another passage confirms it. And that one is true because of the evidence of another passage. Ok, that's all good that whoever wrote the Bible made sure there were no loopholes. But what if I doubt the whole story? The biggest problem I have is the earliest writings of the bible is 30 years after it happened. Lee Stroble says back then that was like a news flash.

But many passages were written generations after it. So one guy says the story to his kid as a kid. That kid grows up old and then says the story to his kid. That kid grows old and that guy says it to his kid and he writes it down. You can't tell me that there wasn't some wives tales or exaggerations that happened over generations of telling a story... Lee Strobel acknowledges that today that would happen, but back then... when stories were told generations to generations, they were 100% identical. I just can't buy that. I can't believe everyone back then had 100% photographic memories.

But my question here is, if Lee Strobel is so right that the Bible is so irredisputable, why don't all Jews read it and say the same thing that it's irresdisputable and convert?
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05-10-2017, 10:03 PM
Post: #2
RE: Is the Bible such an air-tight foolproof book?
HA! Its not even close to being airtight.

http://bibviz.com/

Ps, one cannot argue against a religion inside that religions are, so you cant argue that Christianity is wrong in the Christianity section. I imagine this will be moved.

~~~

when we enter a discussion on matters of discordance, we should search for truth not victory, In this manner we always win, there are no losers.
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05-10-2017, 10:15 PM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2017 10:17 PM by Dorlow.)
Post: #3
RE: Is the Bible such an air-tight foolproof book?
The other question I have... years ago, my wife and I went to a church. It was non-denominational. The church was super liberal. But he had a serious sermon one day. I don't remember exactly how he said it but it was pretty much, jesus died for our sins so we can be non-perfect and not follow the bible to a T and we still will get to heaven as long as we try to follow the bible except he had a few exceptions... there are no exceptions to the exceptions. One, you have to believe Jesus is the messiah and two you can't be gay. I know there were other ones but those two stuck. So, over 2/3 of the world aren't christians and most of them aren't because their parents aren't christians and they were born in a country where it's not the norm. So, by that sermon, 2/3 of the world will go to hell just because they were born in the wrong country.

Also, my daughter says she's gay. I'm hoping she's too young to know for sure. But she's 15. She says she had one girlfriend (even though I didn't meet her.) She has had a few boyfriends. I keep hoping she'll decide that the gay life isn't right, but I'm not forcing it and really trying to stay out of it because I know if I force it, she will probably continue down the gay path out of spite. So, I pretend I don't care... but I kind of do.
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05-10-2017, 10:19 PM
Post: #4
RE: Is the Bible such an air-tight foolproof book?
homosexual females live longer, tend to be happier, are less likely to get STI's in their lifetime.. and they are less likely to contribute to the population problem Tongue. its really not that bad.

Again, you cant argue against Christianity here..

~~~

when we enter a discussion on matters of discordance, we should search for truth not victory, In this manner we always win, there are no losers.
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05-10-2017, 10:24 PM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2017 10:26 PM by Dorlow.)
Post: #5
RE: Is the Bible such an air-tight foolproof book?
I'm not trying to argue against Christianity. I would like someone that's a true believer to read my forum and give me concrete evidence to contradict what I'm saying. But it needs to make sense to where I truly change my stance. It can't be "You're an idiot.. Christianity is right." I'll just get mad but not believe still. I need someone to point me in the right direction and say I'm wrong, or I misunderstood something and I need to look at some story at a different angle, or I need to read this book or watch this documentary, or whatever to prove to me that my statements above are wrong and Christianity is right.
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05-10-2017, 10:29 PM
Post: #6
RE: Is the Bible such an air-tight foolproof book?
well id love to give you as clear an explanation as i can, but i cant do it here, because i cant argue that Christianity is false.

~~~

when we enter a discussion on matters of discordance, we should search for truth not victory, In this manner we always win, there are no losers.
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05-10-2017, 10:30 PM
Post: #7
RE: Is the Bible such an air-tight foolproof book?
I don't want you to argue Christianity is false. If I wanted that argument, I would've posted this to the Jewish forum. I was hoping you believed in Christianity and would argue it's true and I'm wrong based on whatever facts you have to present.
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05-10-2017, 10:33 PM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2017 10:34 PM by PeterPants.)
Post: #8
RE: Is the Bible such an air-tight foolproof book?
You should probably not hope that one particular thing is true, that would be called a bias. If its truth your after you're should try and dissolve your bias.
What id want to do is argue for what i think is true, but i cant do that here.

ive got a question, why do you think there's any validity to ANY Abrahamic scripture?

~~~

when we enter a discussion on matters of discordance, we should search for truth not victory, In this manner we always win, there are no losers.
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05-10-2017, 11:54 PM
Post: #9
RE: Is the Bible such an air-tight foolproof book?
(05-10-2017 10:00 PM)Dorlow Wrote:  How do I know Christianity is right?

Because you're posting in the "Religions of the World" section where posters must accept the convention of assuming the God of the named religion exists and that they cannot argue against the named religion.
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05-11-2017, 08:21 AM
Post: #10
RE: Is the Bible such an air-tight foolproof book?
(05-10-2017 10:00 PM)Dorlow Wrote:  Ok, my whole adult life, I've always had some doubts about religion. I grew up in a Christian family but we rarely went to church. But my parents made sure I know Jesus was our savior.

We attend a non-denominational church. A few weeks ago, I went on a church retreat. I was really hoping it would make me feel more religious and connected. But, in reality, I felt completely out of place, I felt like I distanced myself further from religion, I came back home more confused than ever on religion. I am the kind of person when faced with a problem, I need to solve it. I need 100% concrete definite answers and I don't rest until I figure the problem at hand out. So, now I am faced with this problem of religion.


How do I know Christianity is right? Sadly, a large part of my religious believes all go back to when I was a teenager watching a Simpsons episode. Bart didn't want to go to church. He says to his parents who's to say Christianity is right? There are a ton of religions in the world and who's to say that maybe we're wrong and we're going to church every Sunday making god madder and madder.

It totally made sense to me. Who's to say that Christianity is right and everyone else is wrong? The only reason I side towards Christianity is because I was born in the US where Christianity is the prevailing religion. I could've been born in a Muslim country where my parents told me that was right and I wouldn't thought anything of it.

I grew up in a similar Christian family and would wonder ; has Christianity always been in my family lineage? No is the answer for many of us.Christianity came into my family at one point and not neccessarily at the same time as many other families. As it is written ; The gospels are/were to be taught in all the corners of the world. For example ; Jews and Gentiles had their own ideas and beliefs (Roman gods etc) but they were converting persons at a time regardless of were one was originally born. The same mission holds for today. Unfortunately as Jesus says "many will come in his name" not preaching according to His teachings as may be evident by how and what gains these preachers get from their congregation.

Quote:After coming back from the church retreat, I was mad at life and needed an answer right then. My mom gave me the book years ago "case for christ." I never read it. I was thinking about reading it when I saw the movie was in theatres. I grabbed my wife and we went and saw it that night. I came back and thought maybe the religion is real.

Well, after the movie, I read the book. The book again distanced me from Christianity. The problem with all of the case studies is the evidence is the Bible. This passage is true because of another passage confirms it. And that one is true because of the evidence of another passage. Ok, that's all good that whoever wrote the Bible made sure there were no loopholes. But what if I doubt the whole story? The biggest problem I have is the earliest writings of the bible is 30 years after it happened. Lee Stroble says back then that was like a news flash.

The Christian movement was already in progress during the life of Jesus although this was not called Christianity. If even then we were to say this was 30 years after his death. People who witnessed Jesus would still be alive just older. The early Christians had nothing to gain in materialistc terms and death was at most times assured especially when refusing to renounce Jesus and God. Such things no doubt would seem more likely to resist the atrocious, if they ... the captives had actually witnessed what they believe in.

Quote:But many passages were written generations after it. So one guy says the story to his kid as a kid. That kid grows up old and then says the story to his kid. That kid grows old and that guy says it to his kid and he writes it down. You can't tell me that there wasn't some wives tales or exaggerations that happened over generations of telling a story... Lee Strobel acknowledges that today that would happen, but back then... when stories were told generations to generations, they were 100% identical. I just can't buy that. I can't believe everyone back then had 100% photographic memories.

The Jews have had the oral tradition for centuries previous and most Christians back then formerly Jews would do the same for several generations later. Ordinary sheep herders who couldn't reasd would learn by the oral method.


Quote:But my question here is, if Lee Strobel is so right that the Bible is so irredisputable, why don't all Jews read it and say the same thing that it's irresdisputable and convert?

It is not really that different to those who hold onto other ancient religions perhaps some by cultural tradition today even with the knowledge that there is Christianity also.
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