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Is this why God created sin and evil?
01-26-2010, 04:14 PM
Post: #1
Is this why God created sin and evil?
Is this why God created sin and evil?

New Jerusalem

2 Peter 3.9
The Lord is not being slow in carrying out his promises, as some people think he is; rather is he being patient with you, wanting nobody to be lost and everybody to be brought to repentance.

2 Peter 3:9 KJ
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God wanting no one to be lost makes sense to me. After all, He loves us.
If God's will is supreme, and it is, then if He is not wanting any of us to be lost, you can bet your hat that none are lost.
I must conclude then that none are lost as God's will cannot be thwarted.

If none are lost, thanks to God not wanting to lose any of us, then that would eliminate the need for an everlasting hell.
An everlasting hell would be an immoral place by any measure anyway so this view of God not creating a hell seems right.

If we are all to repent then obviously we must all sin or do evil in some form or other.

God facilitates sin by giving us a sinning nature. We cannot fight our God given natures so sin comes rather easily to us. We all sin by nature. If God wanted sinless people then obviously He would create sinless natures. He does not.

It seems natural to me that God, who began, so to speak, as master of all the universe, would not create a hell where He is not master. That would be back sliding and is of course impossible for God. In the beginning God's continence was without blemish. To think that He would allow Himself to end, so to speak, with a black blemish on His white continence would be rather droll.

Is this why God gave us the gifts of sin and evil?
Is this what makes sin and evil part of God's perfect works?
Is this why in the garden of Eden, God said that things were good, even though Satan or the talking snake were there.
Was Satan, always under God's control, acting as a loyal opposition to make sure that Eve ate of the tree of knowledge that gives us our moral sense?

I admit that my view that a hell would be immoral leads me to read the above quote rather literally while knowing that the Vatican and Pope tell us not to take scripture literally even as I know that many do.

God only creates good and perfect works.
Does that make sin and evil good, within the larger picture of perfection?

I think that from His POV it must be so and by trying to look at things from that view, I can glimpse a view of the perfection that we live in even as I can see sin and evil with us.

Rather strange then that we should be thanking God for evil and sin.
Stranger still to think that God wants us to sin to insure that we do His will by repenting for them.

Thoughts.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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01-27-2010, 01:31 PM
Post: #2
RE: Is this why God created sin and evil?
God created Adam in his image as recorded in Genesis. It means that he was made in the likeness of God, having Godly attributes such as justice, wisdom and love, that set him apart from animals. These qualities gave him the ability to choose to do good or bad, making him a free moral agent. There was no sin in him, no evil or suffering when he was created.

Adam and Eve were not created divine. They did have a measure of divine attributes and the capacity to make moral decisions. Being God’s creation, they were sinless, or perfect. Sin occurred first in the spirit realm before the creation of the earth and man. One of the angels thought a great deal of his own beauty and intelligence. He could see that soon the whole earth would be filled with righteous people, all of them worshipping God. This angel desired worship for himself and took the wrong course.
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01-27-2010, 01:40 PM
Post: #3
RE: Is this why God created sin and evil?
(01-27-2010 01:31 PM)jwitness Wrote:  God created Adam in his image as recorded in Genesis. It means that he was made in the likeness of God, having Godly attributes such as justice, wisdom and love, that set him apart from animals. These qualities gave him the ability to choose to do good or bad, making him a free moral agent. There was no sin in him, no evil or suffering when he was created.

Adam and Eve were not created divine. They did have a measure of divine attributes and the capacity to make moral decisions. Being God’s creation, they were sinless, or perfect. Sin occurred first in the spirit realm before the creation of the earth and man. One of the angels thought a great deal of his own beauty and intelligence. He could see that soon the whole earth would be filled with righteous people, all of them worshipping God. This angel desired worship for himself and took the wrong course.

Does this mean that Adam and Eve would not have sinned if not influenced by Satan? God also created Satan. Why was he not sinless and perfect?
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01-27-2010, 02:39 PM
Post: #4
RE: Is this why God created sin and evil?
Yes, Adam & Eve would not have sinned if it wasn’t for Satan.
Deuteronomy 32:4 states God’s activity is perfect, with no injustice or unrighteousness. Therefore, the one who became Satan, was when created a perfect righteous creature of God. From a righteous, perfect start, this spirit person deviated into sin. James 1:14,15 says: “Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.
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01-27-2010, 02:56 PM
Post: #5
RE: Is this why God created sin and evil?
(01-27-2010 02:39 PM)jwitness Wrote:  Yes, Adam & Eve would not have sinned if it wasn’t for Satan.
Deuteronomy 32:4 states God’s activity is perfect, with no injustice or unrighteousness. Therefore, the one who became Satan, was when created a perfect righteous creature of God. From a righteous, perfect start, this spirit person deviated into sin. James 1:14,15 says: “Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.

To recap:

Adam and Eve were sinless and perfect because they were creations of God. They would not have sinned on their own if it were not for the intervention of Satan.

Satan is also a creation of God. He should therefore be sinless and perfect and would not sin unless there was some outside intervention.

So why did Satan sin in the first place?
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01-28-2010, 12:30 PM
Post: #6
RE: Is this why God created sin and evil?
jwitness

"having Godly attributes such as justice, wisdom"

These attributes have to contain the knowledge of good and evil.
How could they have had them if they had yet to eat of the tree knowledge of good and evil and therefore could not have had the moral sense that knowledge of good and evil create?

Further, why do you think that God would allow Satan access to His two first proto humans since being omnipotent, He would have known that by allowing such, He would fail to start them off properly. He allowed for His own failure in other words.

Why choose failure for Himself?

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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01-29-2010, 02:29 PM
Post: #7
RE: Is this why God created sin and evil?
Many people think that everything called perfect is in an absolute sense, to an infinite degree, without limitation. Perfection in this absolute sense distinguishes only the Creator. Because of this Jesus could say of his Father: “Nobody is good, except one, God.” – Mark 10:18.
Perfection of any other person or thing, is relative, not absolute. That’s why Psalms 119:96 says: “to all perfection I have seen an end.” A thing is perfect according to or in relation to, the purpose or end for which it is appointed by its designer or producer, or the use to which it is to be put by its receiver or user. The very meaning of perfection requires that there be someone who decides when completion has been reached, what the standards of excellence are, what requirements are to be satisfied, and what details are essential. Ultimately, God, the Creator has the final Arbiter of perfection, the standard setter, in accord with his own righteous purposes and interests.

As an illustration earth was one of God’s creations, and at the end of six creative days of work toward it, God pronounced the results very good. It met his supreme standards of excellence, hence it was perfect.
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01-29-2010, 02:54 PM
Post: #8
RE: Is this why God created sin and evil?
(01-27-2010 02:56 PM)Parousia Wrote:  ...So why did Satan sin in the first place?

It may be that the best possible sort of creature possesses genuine freedom. If a creature does possess such freedom, then that creature is free to choose God, or something else. That "something else" is sin.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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