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Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.
05-10-2012, 10:05 AM
Post: #1
Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.
Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.

Sin, by it’s very nature must have a victim. Without a victim, there is no sin.

The one sinned against has the first right of forgiveness.

If Jesus usurps that right then I think it would be unjust.

Closure is being denied the victim thus victimizing is twofold.

Jesus would not condone such a thing.

Secular law now demands a victim assessment report before sentence is given.

To think that Jesus would ignore this requirement is unthinkable.

This means that, “Why have you forsaken me? “, is answered by God with; because what you do is immoral. You deny the victim her or his rights. It is also unjust to punish the innocent instead of the guilty. In fact, that notion is insane.

In the scenario shown here the victim is ignored thus showing the flaw in the judge’s ruling, if he accepts substitutionary atonement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqP_fjBkw...re=related

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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05-10-2012, 06:12 PM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2012 06:14 PM by chucknance.)
Post: #2
RE: Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.
(05-10-2012 10:05 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.

Sin, by it’s very nature must have a victim. Without a victim, there is no sin.

The one sinned against has the first right of forgiveness.

If Jesus usurps that right then I think it would be unjust.

Closure is being denied the victim thus victimizing is twofold.

Jesus would not condone such a thing.

Secular law now demands a victim assessment report before sentence is given.

To think that Jesus would ignore this requirement is unthinkable.

This means that, “Why have you forsaken me? “, is answered by God with; because what you do is immoral. You deny the victim her or his rights. It is also unjust to punish the innocent instead of the guilty. In fact, that notion is insane.

In the scenario shown here the victim is ignored thus showing the flaw in the judge’s ruling, if he accepts substitutionary atonement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqP_fjBkw...re=related

Regards
DL

Yes, how about the victim? I am sure Satan likes the idea. He can attack humans and be forgiven. Why shouldn't he, the personification of evil, share in universal justice.

For evil acts there must be justice. Assuming God has no son, then who was Jesus? He was either a man pretending to be divine or God presenting his "testimony" (Rev. 11) to his chosen people.

I love Dawkins' comment, "why would God sacrificed His son?" Why not just forgive sin? I believe the real story is Rev. 11. God's purpose was to come into the world as Jesus and present His "testimony," which I believe was about commandments, prophets, and Himself. The problem for God was when He revealed Himself as two entities, his followers were unable to understand. Subsequently, son of God stories became the basis for fairy tales about Jesus. Except for the short account in Rev. 11, the real story will never be known.

I also don't believe Jesus was crucified. I believe Roman soldiers brutally beat Jesus to death. Then, they let him lie in "the street of the great city," Rev. 11:8.

What would happen to Christianity if believers thought Jesus didn't forgive sins? Would they be back with the OT Lord suffering consequences for violating commandments? It's doubtful Christians would ever accept such a possibility. A fantasy land of forgiveness and guaranteed salvation is what Christians want.
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05-10-2012, 10:07 PM
Post: #3
RE: Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.
I think the very notion of a third party walking up to someone who just committed an assault and saying 'you are forgiven' is not only ludicrous but immoral. Its also supremely arrogant.
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05-11-2012, 06:50 AM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2012 06:51 AM by Greatest I am.)
Post: #4
RE: Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.
(05-10-2012 06:12 PM)chucknance Wrote:  [
What would happen to Christianity if believers thought Jesus didn't forgive sins? Would they be back with the OT Lord suffering consequences for violating commandments? It's doubtful Christians would ever accept such a possibility. A fantasy land of forgiveness and guaranteed salvation is what Christians want.

Yes but only for their tribe. They show their hate filled hearts by demanding that their God have eternal useless torture for the rest of us.

What else would one expect from a religion based on human sacrifice? An immoral practice.

Regards
DL
(05-10-2012 10:07 PM)Hypernova Wrote:  I think the very notion of a third party walking up to someone who just committed an assault and saying 'you are forgiven' is not only ludicrous but immoral. Its also supremely arrogant.

Quite so.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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05-11-2012, 07:23 AM
Post: #5
RE: Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.
(05-11-2012 06:50 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(05-10-2012 06:12 PM)chucknance Wrote:  [
What would happen to Christianity if believers thought Jesus didn't forgive sins? Would they be back with the OT Lord suffering consequences for violating commandments? It's doubtful Christians would ever accept such a possibility. A fantasy land of forgiveness and guaranteed salvation is what Christians want.

Yes but only for their tribe. They show their hate filled hearts by demanding that their God have eternal useless torture for the rest of us.

What else would one expect from a religion based on human sacrifice? An immoral practice.

Regards
DL
(05-10-2012 10:07 PM)Hypernova Wrote:  I think the very notion of a third party walking up to someone who just committed an assault and saying 'you are forgiven' is not only ludicrous but immoral. Its also supremely arrogant.

Quite so.

Regards
DL

A person is responsible to amend the harms done to others, it has nothing to do with Jesus. A sin is a mistake to be corrected, not punished. Jesus had a message of forgiveness, He knew that people were inherently good and their mistakes comes from distorted perception.

A victim can forgive, or not forgive, he/she can hang on to resentment or anger as long as they choose, they will add to their own suffering by not forgiving.

A wise Spiritual teacher was questioned for years by his students, as to how he remains in a peaceful state of being. He gathered his students together one day and said, "I will share my secret to peace of mind now" The students watched anxiously, The teacher said "I don't mind what happens"

The nature of rain is the same, but it makes thorns grow in the marshes and flowers in the gardens.

Anthony De Mello
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05-11-2012, 08:55 AM
Post: #6
RE: Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.
(05-11-2012 07:23 AM)thomasj6299 Wrote:  [

A wise Spiritual teacher was questioned for years by his students, as to how he remains in a peaceful state of being. He gathered his students together one day and said, "I will share my secret to peace of mind now" The students watched anxiously, The teacher said "I don't mind what happens"

And you think that wise?
Give your head a shake.

You would not mind your daughter being raped Eh.

Thanks for showing the true Christian heart.

BELIEVERS, HAVE A LOOK AT YOURSELVES HERE.

Do you like what you see?

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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05-11-2012, 12:26 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2012 12:31 PM by thomasj6299.)
Post: #7
RE: Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.
(05-11-2012 08:55 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(05-11-2012 07:23 AM)thomasj6299 Wrote:  [

A wise Spiritual teacher was questioned for years by his students, as to how he remains in a peaceful state of being. He gathered his students together one day and said, "I will share my secret to peace of mind now" The students watched anxiously, The teacher said "I don't mind what happens"

And you think that wise?
Give your head a shake.

You would not mind your daughter being raped Eh.

Thanks for showing the true Christian heart.

BELIEVERS, HAVE A LOOK AT YOURSELVES HERE.

Do you like what you see?

Regards
DL

If my daughter was raped, I would do everything in my power to make sure that the rapist was held accountable for his actions.

Are you saying that in addition to the above actions, I should suffer endlessly until the rapist is caught?

Should I become angry, resentful, and hate him? Should I kill him?

Is it really important that i suffer because my daughter has?

Tell me what should happen to me emotionally, and how should I behave if my daughter was raped?

Should I care what other believers think of me?

Is it important to you what other non believers think of you, or your posts?

The nature of rain is the same, but it makes thorns grow in the marshes and flowers in the gardens.

Anthony De Mello
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05-11-2012, 03:19 PM
Post: #8
RE: Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.
I am saying that if anyone takes the attitude you quoted above, ""I don't mind what happens"",

Then they are not fit parents and do not deserve the label of human.

Thanks Christian for showing Christian thought.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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05-11-2012, 04:04 PM
Post: #9
RE: Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.
Hmm,, but you could not address anything I said after, ok fair enough

The nature of rain is the same, but it makes thorns grow in the marshes and flowers in the gardens.

Anthony De Mello
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05-11-2012, 08:53 PM
Post: #10
RE: Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.
(05-11-2012 04:04 PM)thomasj6299 Wrote:  Hmm,, but you could not address anything I said after, ok fair enough

None of it spoke to the issue of the O P.
Get on topic without any more stupid statements and we can perhaps chat.

Recant first though or I will not waste my breath on you.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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