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Jesus said to the Father. About the Plan and my death, get serious.
08-10-2009, 09:05 AM
Post: #1
Jesus said to the Father. About the Plan and my death, get serious.
Jesus said to the Father. About the Plan and my death, get serious.

Some believe that the Father would tell Jesus that they would create humans with original sin. Then they would impregnate Mary with Himself as her child so that He could be born as human and Himself. He then would commit suicide as a sacrifice to Himself to save man from the sin that He had condemned and created man to do.

This is one view.




The real view is that we are born with sinning nature thanks to the evolutionary system that we have in place and working on an ongoing basis. We either compete/evil or cooperate/good, to evolve ourselves to a higher degree of perfection as all are created perfect.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
The above is one view of God.

If a God actually placed evolution here, then because of it’s perfect nature, He would never have to return to fix what is working perfectly and we truly have dominion over the earth.

Man is the supreme force here. Not a God.

The vicarious redemption of Jesus as shown above is not only unlikely, it also places us all on a scapegoat and this is an immoral position that a God would not force upon us. That would be an immoral act. We are all responsible for our own actions and sins. God in fact rejected vicarious redemption--why have you forsaken me--because the death of an innocent man for the sins of others is not justice.


If scripture is to be believed then man must sin to earn heaven.

2 Peter 3:9 KJ
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Repentance is to follow sin. We must sin first, so it can be said that God wants man to sin.

Why? To repent because repenting is what forms our moral sense. Without sin, this is not possible.

The writers of scriptures knew this and this is why they had Eve fall. As the above shows, the fall was not a fall but a fall up, so to speak, to a moral sense.

To think that a God would hold back the knowledge of good and evil is false.
Man is not a total human without a moral sense and this can only come with the knowledge of good and evil.

Be it God’s will or evolutions purpose then there can be no hell as all are saved. In this we have no choice as to think otherwise would be to think that God’s will can be thwarted or that evolution is imperfect. Both of these I see as impossible.

Is the vicarious redemption of Jesus evil?
Does God want us to sin?


Regards
DL
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08-10-2009, 11:28 AM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2009 11:30 AM by Raphael.)
Post: #2
RE: Jesus said to the Father. About the Plan and my death, get serious.
(08-10-2009 09:05 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Jesus said

Regards
DL

Jesus said many things in the 5th Gospel of Thomas.
Would you be willing to discuss these quotes too?

namaste

NATURE cannot be HIDDEN only VEILeD with NARRATIVES that defy NATURE

CodeX4 and the Reconciliation of Science and Religion
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/about/
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08-11-2009, 09:35 AM
Post: #3
RE: Jesus said to the Father. About the Plan and my death, get serious.
(08-10-2009 11:28 AM)Raphael Wrote:  
(08-10-2009 09:05 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Jesus said

Regards
DL

Jesus said many things in the 5th Gospel of Thomas.
Would you be willing to discuss these quotes too?

namaste

Jesus is an mythical archetype and much has been put in his mouth but sure, I can give an opinion on any topic.

Regards
DL
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08-11-2009, 08:54 PM
Post: #4
RE: Jesus said to the Father. About the Plan and my death, get serious.
(08-11-2009 09:35 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Jesus is an mythical archetype and much has been put in his mouth but sure, I can give an opinion on any topic.

Regards
DL

hey I agree.
he is so much of an archetype...he can be identified with the archetypal Golden Rules?

of course he can...enjoy...your above response suggests you might enjoy this...
http://2012forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php...&sk=t&sd=a

namaste

NATURE cannot be HIDDEN only VEILeD with NARRATIVES that defy NATURE

CodeX4 and the Reconciliation of Science and Religion
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/about/
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08-25-2009, 06:52 AM
Post: #5
RE: Jesus said to the Father. About the Plan and my death, get serious.
ok read this verse:- "DO NOT CLING TO ME, FOR I HAVE NOT YET ASCENDED TO MY FATHER, BUT GO TO MY BRETHREN AND SAY TO THEM, I AM ASCENDING TO MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER, AND TO MY GOD AND YOUR GOD."
JOHN 20:17
I THINK THE VERSE IS CLEAR, HE IS NOT A GOD NOR SON, HE IS A HUMAN LIKE HIS BROTHERS ..AND GOD IS THE FATHER FOR ALL HUMANS
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08-25-2009, 02:10 PM
Post: #6
RE: Jesus said to the Father. About the Plan and my death, get serious.
If you believe in a literal bible, then Jesus has to be god. "The Father" is a metaphor used to refer to that aspect of god that remains in heaven.

If you don't believe in a literal bible, of course, then you can view the Jesus myth from a more practical perspective.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
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08-25-2009, 05:16 PM
Post: #7
RE: Jesus said to the Father. About the Plan and my death, get serious.
(08-25-2009 06:52 AM)sesame Wrote:  ok read this verse:- "DO NOT CLING TO ME, FOR I HAVE NOT YET ASCENDED TO MY FATHER, BUT GO TO MY BRETHREN AND SAY TO THEM, I AM ASCENDING TO MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER, AND TO MY GOD AND YOUR GOD."
JOHN 20:17
I THINK THE VERSE IS CLEAR, HE IS NOT A GOD NOR SON, HE IS A HUMAN LIKE HIS BROTHERS ..AND GOD IS THE FATHER FOR ALL HUMANS

Evolution decided my lineage, not an absentee alien God.

Regards
DL
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08-25-2009, 06:02 PM
Post: #8
RE: Jesus said to the Father. About the Plan and my death, get serious.
Well, I think you're right about that. But the reason we think that is because that's what science tells us. That has nothing to do with whether or not a 2,000 year old book tells us some guy was actually god.

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08-26-2009, 02:21 AM
Post: #9
RE: Jesus said to the Father. About the Plan and my death, get serious.
"That has nothing to do with whether or not a 2,000 year old book tells us some guy was actually god."

I THINK THE VERSE THAT I MENTIONED IS CLEAR, EITHER, LITRALY OR NOT, HE DIDN'T CLAIM THAT HE IS GOD NOR SON, HE IS JUST MESSENGER FROM GOD LIKE ANY MESSENGER BEFORE HIM, LIKE MOSES OR JACOB OR IBRAHAM.....
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08-26-2009, 10:52 AM
Post: #10
RE: Jesus said to the Father. About the Plan and my death, get serious.
(08-26-2009 02:21 AM)sesame Wrote:  "That has nothing to do with whether or not a 2,000 year old book tells us some guy was actually god."

I THINK THE VERSE THAT I MENTIONED IS CLEAR, EITHER, LITRALY OR NOT, HE DIDN'T CLAIM THAT HE IS GOD NOR SON, HE IS JUST MESSENGER FROM GOD LIKE ANY MESSENGER BEFORE HIM, LIKE MOSES OR JACOB OR IBRAHAM.....

I do not mind Jesus the Rabbi and man.
I do not like Jesus the genocidal maniac God.

Regards
DL
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