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Kabbalah and Jewish mystitism
10-07-2009, 04:00 PM
Post: #1
Kabbalah and Jewish mystitism
All religions, arts, and sciences are branches of the same tree. All these aspirations are directed toward ennobling man's
life, lifting it from the sphere of mere physical existence and leading the individual towards freedom. -Albert Einstein-
from this forum Smile

All religiohns just a business - from me Smile

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10-07-2009, 05:11 PM
Post: #2
RE: Kabbalah and Jewish mystitism
Itsme, what has that got to do with either the Kabbalah or Jewish mysticism?

I got all intersted there... Sad
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10-11-2009, 01:33 AM
Post: #3
RE: Kabbalah and Jewish mystitism
(10-07-2009 04:00 PM)itsme Wrote:  All religions, arts, and sciences are branches of the same tree. All these aspirations are directed toward ennobling man's
life, lifting it from the sphere of mere physical existence and leading the individual towards freedom. -Albert Einstein-
from this forum Smile

All religiohns just a business - from me Smile

Lets Discuss Kabbalah and Alchemy in Relation to Christian Gnosticism!

I'm an Alchemist in a Sense but that's not my Religion.

My Religion is made up of rules that I find people need, that I myself need.

Where as my Spiritual Beliefs are based only on Faith and I believe them because of Faith!

I'm both a Psychologist & an Philosopher but at the same time I think my Inspiration comes from Yahweh of El!

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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10-12-2009, 03:39 AM
Post: #4
RE: Kabbalah and Jewish mystitism
(10-11-2009 01:33 AM)Azrael17 Wrote:  
(10-07-2009 04:00 PM)itsme Wrote:  All religions, arts, and sciences are branches of the same tree. All these aspirations are directed toward ennobling man's
life, lifting it from the sphere of mere physical existence and leading the individual towards freedom. -Albert Einstein-
from this forum Smile

All religiohns just a business - from me Smile

Lets Discuss Kabbalah and Alchemy in Relation to Christian Gnosticism!

I'm an Alchemist in a Sense but that's not my Religion.

My Religion is made up of rules that I find people need, that I myself need.

Where as my Spiritual Beliefs are based only on Faith and I believe them because of Faith!

I'm both a Psychologist & an Philosopher but at the same time I think my Inspiration comes from Yahweh of El!

Go one then. You've also said nothing about either the Kabbalah or Alchemy. For such an interesting subject this threads not going anywhere.
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10-14-2009, 02:48 AM
Post: #5
RE: Kabbalah and Jewish mystitism
I have a few Questions like what is the Core Belief of some one who Follows the Kabbalah?

I've tried to read about it myself, but it seems complex and I wanted to Know if there is a more Simple way to tell some one about it.

Some one Give me the Basics as Simple as Possible.

On a Different note I think Judaism was Born from another Faith that predates it. Possible something Mosses Studied or Noah Believed in or Perhaps both.
My Theory is that Religion, Art, and Science where all Inspired by Alchemy at first. And that the God of Western Monotheism is a Perfect Alchemist.
I also think (please do not get angry) that the people who wrote the Bible where Sexist. This would explain why even in Christianity God is Referred to as a Him. The Western Monotheism version of God is almost never called a her. Even the word Lord means your making God into a male. This is why I will call God the Mother because people try to argue with me when I do. I don't think God has a gender just that She will show herself to us as She sees fit.

The Tree in Eden that Adam and Eve Ate from was Knowledge of Good and Evil. But Knowledge with out Wisdom can be Dangerous. So that is why God become Angry, because eventually he was going to let us Eat of the tree of Knowledge but not until After we Ate from the Tree of Wisdom. Would you try to explain Logic to a 5 year old?

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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10-14-2009, 06:58 AM (This post was last modified: 10-14-2009 07:01 AM by Zagreus.)
Post: #6
RE: Kabbalah and Jewish mystitism
Haha! You might not believe me, but I’ve also done an essay on this, which you are more than welcome to a copy of if you want, though I never quite finished it. It is intended as a beginner level one, as much as can be possible. If you ask about Aristotle’s views on the Greek concept of Eudaimonia then this will become a bit more than coincidence!

(10-14-2009 02:48 AM)Azrael17 Wrote:  I have a few Questions like what is the Core Belief of some one who Follows the Kabbalah?

I've tried to read about it myself, but it seems complex and I wanted to Know if there is a more Simple way to tell some one about it.

Some one Give me the Basics as Simple as Possible.

The Kabbalah is actually fairly simple on a surface level, but is also infinitely complicated too; that’s kind of one of the key ideas. In addition, there is a lot of new age rubbish surrounding the subject, which can make it all a bit unclear.

Below I have cut and pasted bits from the start of my essay, as that should give you a rough idea (I hope!)

‘The Qabalah, or Qabbalah, Kabalah, Kabbalah, Cabalah, and Cabbalah, as it can also be spelt, is essentially a Jewish mystic tradition that extends back into history to an untraceable origin. In current times it has been subject to interpretation by many people, and although the Qabalah is based upon certain texts, over the past century it has been adjusted and viewed from an increasingly ‘new age’ stance. To be able to even begin to comprehend the complexities of the system fully has taken Rabbis, scholars, mystics and magicians lifetimes of committed study.

The word Qabalah (QBLH in Hebrew) stems from the Hebrew word QBL, which means ‘to receive’, and seems to pertain to the fact that the tradition was passed down orally through the generations. This is why there are scarcely any written texts regarding the Qabalah in history; and even within the last few centuries still much regarding the subject is passed onto those who have been initiated, rather than being published for the eyes of the profane.

To outline the history of the Qabalah would take a volume in itself, and perhaps to do it justice a lifetime of study too. This is again due to the secretive nature of the subject, and the fact that the Church regarded the Qabalah as being in-league with the devil, which resulted in Qabalistic literature only being freely published within the last century.

Firstly, if we look to legend, the Qabalah is the knowledge of all things which was taught by God to the higher ranking angels, who, after the fall from grace, taught them in turn to mankind. Some say that this was first taught to Adam himself, in order to console him about his expulsion from Paradise; other legends suggest it was taught to Abraham. Historically though, according to John Bonner, the Qabalah was ‘not committed to paper until at least the time of the destruction of the second temple (A.D. 70)’. As with all ideas, they become influenced by other ideas, and the Qabalah displays influences from Greek thought, although it would be impossible to isolate one as having greater influence over the other. In fact, unless it could be proven that this system was taught directly by God to any individual, it would be impossible to actually attribute a time / place of origin on the Qabalistic tradition.
One of the oldest Qabalistic texts is the Sepher ha-Zohar, or just Zohar as it is known, which means the “book of splendour”. The Zohar claims to have been written by Rabbi Simeon ben Yochai who lived approximately between AD 95-190, but this has been disputed, with some claiming that it was written in the 1200s by Rabbi Moses de Leon. It is also suggested that a large amount of the Zohar stems from the fourth century AD. Opinion, according again to Bonner, is that the current form of the Zohar was indeed composed by Moses be Leon, but that it could well represent the oral tradition passed down since Simeon ben Yochai. This may not even have been a forgery which claimed older origins for any immoral reasons either. During the thirteenth century, especially with regards to mystical texts, it was fashionable at that time to claim older authorship of ones’ work; both to add authority to the content, but also to ensure anonymity. Rather than pertaining to deliberate fraud, the scholarly and wealthy people who would have seen this text would have been aware of this fashion, and taken it into consideration when examining the text.

The second most influential Qabalistic text is the Sepher Yetzirah, or the ‘Book of Creation’. Again, this text has historic authorship in its legends, and as early as the tenth century Saadia Gaon wrote that ‘the ancients say that Abraham wrote it’ . Indeed, it is believed to be the oldest of the texts, and Bonner states that it was written circa 120AD, probably by Rabbi Akiba, but it would not be possible to prove this date for certain.

The Sepher Yetzirah itself is a very short and concise work, with the long version of the text consists of approximately only 2500 words, whilst the short version a mere 1300 words . In fact Kaplan even suggests that there is speculation that the original only contained 240 words!

According to Aryeh Kaplan in the introduction to his translation and explanation of the Sefer Yetzirah, there are three categories within the Qabalah which are generally recognised; these are theoretical, meditative and magical. Theoretical Qabalah deals with the more spiritual plane of the sephiroth, souls and angels, the first of these we will look at in more detail. Meditative Qabalah uses divine names and letter permutations in a similar manner to perhaps the way mantras are used in yoga to reach higher states of consciousness. Magical Qabalah is the use of divine names, various signs, incantations, etc. to change or alter natural events.

Also important to the Qabalah is the diagram of the Tree of Life:

[Image: Treeoflife0.gif]
The Tree of Life is a diagram consisting of ten ‘Sephiroth’ and twenty-two paths connecting these points. The word Sephiroth does not have an exact English translation, as indeed many foreign words do not, though either ‘emanation’ or ‘numeration’ are perhaps as close as we can get. These ten Sephiroth relate to the numbers one to ten, whilst the twenty-two paths relate to the twenty-two letters of the Hebrew alphabet. When looking at the Tree of Life it must be remembered that it is not a thing in itself, in the same way that the periodic table is not a thing in itself; both are charts designed to show the relationships between their composing parts. Rather than viewing the chart as a ‘from the top down to the bottom’ system, it must be viewed as a series of layers from the centre to the outside, like the layers of an onion perhaps. The top Sephiroth, Kether, is the centre of this onion, whilst the bottom Sephiroth, Malkuth, is the outer skin.’

How’s that Az? Confused?

(10-14-2009 02:48 AM)Azrael17 Wrote:  On a Different note I think Judaism was Born from another Faith that predates it. Possible something Mosses Studied or Noah Believed in or Perhaps both.
My Theory is that Religion, Art, and Science where all Inspired by Alchemy at first. And that the God of Western Monotheism is a Perfect Alchemist.
I also think (please do not get angry) that the people who wrote the Bible where Sexist. This would explain why even in Christianity God is Referred to as a Him. The Western Monotheism version of God is almost never called a her. Even the word Lord means your making God into a male. This is why I will call God the Mother because people try to argue with me when I do. I don't think God has a gender just that She will show herself to us as She sees fit.

The Tree in Eden that Adam and Eve Ate from was Knowledge of Good and Evil. But Knowledge with out Wisdom can be Dangerous. So that is why God become Angry, because eventually he was going to let us Eat of the tree of Knowledge but not until After we Ate from the Tree of Wisdom. Would you try to explain Logic to a 5 year old?

Alchemy is not as old as the myths you are referring to, as far as it is considered in its modern definition. What’s your definition of Alchemy, as you seem to use the term quite loosely?

In addition, you are partly right in the next thing you say, but it is not strictly sexism as we understand it. Historically men are the more dominant of our species, hence why men feature more in history. We have testosterone, and so are the conquerors. Males tend also to be physically stronger, so that’s why they hunt and did the labour in ancient farming.

It is not the writers of the Bible that are sexist (well, apart from Paul), and you have to remember that the Bible was written by many people over a very long time period. You are referring to Judaism, so I’ll ignore the NT. There are actually many names of God in the Old Testament (Torah/Tanakh), but in translation they were just rendered ‘God’ and referred to as ‘He’, and whilst Jehovah / Yahweh (הוהי) is the most famous, it was not even the one God said to Moses (Ehiah - “I Am that I Am). These translations would have been done by men, in times when women were not necessarily regarded as equals. Males are the creators after all. In fact, the first 32 uses of the word God in Genesis (Bereshith in Hebrew) is Elohim, which from memory is a female plural of a masculine word, so is non-gender specific, and some people have tried to argue it could also be translated as ‘They’ created, etc.

It’s been a while since I’ve really looked at the Kabbalah, but I hope that helps. It’s a really interesting subject, but it takes years to get your head around it. Unless you’re Madonna.

Phew, that was as long as some of Vonason's posts... Big Grin
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10-15-2009, 12:36 AM
Post: #7
RE: Kabbalah and Jewish mystitism
(10-14-2009 06:58 AM)Zagreus Wrote:  Alchemy is not as old as the myths you are referring to, as far as it is considered in its modern definition. What’s your definition of Alchemy, as you seem to use the term quite loosely?

I'm a complex person when it comes to Alchemy because to me it's a collection of Ideas. You could say my True Religion is Alchemy.

Alchemy = God Created our Souls so that we can Transcend and become one with her. Once united with God we can then proceed to help others.

Alchemy = Logic & Creative Reasoning.
Alchemy = Mind Over Matter
Alchemy = Any thing is Possible but that doesn't mean any thing will happen!
Alchemy = Progress/Change
Alchemy = Rules are not set in stone, but Humanity needs them and our Rules should be adapted to keep us Safe and Happy.

Well first remember that I think there was an Angel(or whatever you want to call it.) that thought advance things to early people. But God got angry because she wanted us to have Wisdom before Knowledge.

Quite simply to me its Logic and Creative thought merged into one.

Or also you can think of it as Balance of thought.
For example there are people so Logical they can't grasp Creativity.
And people so blinded by Faith they can't see the Truth.

Alchemy is about Truth.

Well an Alchemist is some one who tries to Distill change in the world.
Jesus was an Alchemist because of his ideas, Abraham and Mosses where Alchemist because of their ideas. In my mind any person who writes down an Idea that can Change the world is an Alchemist.
An Inventor could be called an Alchemist because they are helping the world change.

So Alchemy is a Philosophy that I live by.
Turning Lead into Gold is just a symbol for turning a bad person into a good person. Or teaching a child right from wrong.
You see I don't agree with the idea that a blood sacrifice is needed (hence why I disagree with a lot of Christians.)
Instead the sacrifice God wants is our submission to her will.
If a person tries to be a good person with all their heart, loves all others, loves them self, loves god more than any thing else, and does not misjudge other people than that person will go to heaven.

So being selfless is the path to God, but at the same time people need to adjust to change and remain faithful.

The biggest part of what I call Alchemist Philosophy is that "You can't get any thing for free." All things have a price. If you want to start a business than you might have to work hard your entire life. A lot of Theist will try to Deny the Negativity but Pain is required for Growth.


So to put it simply it's just a collection of Philosophies that I find work very well.
God was an Alchemist because she started the Biggest Change in the Universe.

Also in my mind Alchemy is about Open Mindedness.

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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11-30-2009, 09:06 AM
Post: #8
RE: Kabbalah and Jewish mystitism

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11-30-2009, 10:02 AM
Post: #9
RE: Kabbalah and Jewish mystitism
Do you mean the core belief of the Kabbalah is fantasy?
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11-30-2009, 01:55 PM (This post was last modified: 11-30-2009 01:56 PM by Parousia.)
Post: #10
RE: Kabbalah and Jewish mystitism
It seems to me that the various participants on this thread may be talking about different things with the same (or similar) label.

There is the Jewish Kabbalah that the thread title mentions.

There is the Hermetic Qabalah invoving a much broader range of ideas including Alchemy.

There is the rather obscure Christian Cabbalah, Jewish Kabbalah imported into a Christian theological framework.

And there is Practical Kabbalah, which is magic without any philosophy.

Which one are YOU talking about. Smile
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