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Let us pray for Donald Trump!
05-20-2017, 11:50 PM
Post: #71
RE: Let us pray for Donald Trump!
Quote:Limbs growing back is a bunch different than God stopping a person from hemmoriging to death

Why is it different? Why is it different than curing cancer? That's just silly. It's the same... but you know it just never happens, only because we can see one and not the other.

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05-21-2017, 12:07 AM (This post was last modified: 05-21-2017 12:13 AM by Herminator.)
Post: #72
RE: Let us pray for Donald Trump!
First off Sue, I see you haven't reacted to the evidence I presented about the big scientific study that has been done about prayer not helping in medical proceses.

I wonder why that is? Wink

(05-20-2017 08:33 PM)Sue D. Wrote:  Limbs growing back is a bunch different than God stopping a person from hemmoriging to death.

How is that different? In both cases God intervenes by performing physical acts in the real world - tell me how the two cases are different?

If he can perform miracles, he can grow back limbs, right??

(05-20-2017 08:33 PM)Sue D. Wrote:  You make jokes / fun of Any attempt to consider the Miraculous. If God chose to perform a miracle in Your life -- chances are you'd attribute it to Anything except a miracle.

That's 100% supposition on your part. Let's deal with that situation when God has indeed grown me back a limb, or gave me World Peace - I'm pretty sure I'd be a believer straight away.



(05-20-2017 05:40 PM)Visqueen Wrote:  Yes, any president of the US has the ability to decide what classified info they feel they want to share with other countries.

Only in the case this information was obtained by the US - and in this case, it was not. It was given to him by another nation, saying in their opinion it was highly classified, and shouldn't be shared with others.

Apparently Trump has no clue what will happen if you simply ignore the requests of other nations about confidential information.

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05-21-2017, 12:21 AM
Post: #73
RE: Let us pray for Donald Trump!
Quote:You make jokes / fun of Any attempt to consider the Miraculous. If God chose to perform a miracle in Your life -- chances are you'd attribute it to Anything except a miracle.

Yes, because attributing it to miracles is clearly a baseless and bias thing to do.. its a non-explanation, its answers nothing, it adds nothing to our understanding of what happened, tis meaningless and rediculous, you could literally attribute ANYTHING you want to your god if you felt inclined, this is the height of intellectual dishonesty.

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Yesterday, 06:51 PM (This post was last modified: Yesterday 07:21 PM by Splendor.)
Post: #74
RE: Let us pray for Donald Trump!
(05-20-2017 05:40 PM)Visqueen Wrote:  Yes, any president of the US has the ability to decide what classified info they feel they want to share with other countries. The part of your statement I put in bold is just supposition on your part though Splendor, you have no honest idea what harm was or wasn't done. None of us were present, none of us know exactly what was said nor do any of us have the clearance required to understand whether that classified info was inappropriately shared. Two people present say it was, one say it wasn't - none of us can judge including you.

You are a supporter of his so you are eager to say what he did was just fine but you don't really know as I said, unless you were in the room.

By all accounts, President Trump knew neither the identity nor the exact location of any Israeli counter-terrorism intelligence agent who uncovered the ISIS plot to use a laptop computer for concealing and detonating a bomb on board a commercial airliner to murder commercial airline passengers. All Trump just did was to heighten airport security awareness of how ISIS intended to sneak a bomb on board a commercial airliner in order to murder its passengers.
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Yesterday, 08:12 PM
Post: #75
RE: Let us pray for Donald Trump!
I have a feeling you would defend his innocence even if he admitted his own guilt.

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Yesterday, 08:28 PM
Post: #76
RE: Let us pray for Donald Trump!
remember we people thought Bush was an idiot! We thought we reached the rock bottom those days...... now, if you look up, really, really looked up there, that's the place we were those days.

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Yesterday, 08:34 PM
Post: #77
RE: Let us pray for Donald Trump!
Trump was clearly just bragging to a guy he admires/likes.. Whatever consequences came of it are mostly irellevant, the issue here is that the president is a moron and a child. What else will he gloat about to known mallicious and manipulative world powers?

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Yesterday, 09:02 PM
Post: #78
RE: Let us pray for Donald Trump!
(05-20-2017 04:14 PM)Herminator Wrote:  
(05-20-2017 03:15 PM)Sue D. Wrote:  
(05-20-2017 11:40 AM)Herminator Wrote:  
(05-20-2017 09:57 AM)Sue D. Wrote:  
(05-20-2017 12:24 AM)Herminator Wrote:  No, because praying has never been demonstrated to work - God does not micromanage Wink

I didn't expect you to agree with praying -- but it Does work.

That's good news! Pray to win the lottery then, or pray for world peace. I can tell you right now that it won't work - because it involves miracles, and those don't happen.

Has anyone who lost a limb, and prayed all his life for a new one, ever received it? NO, of course not - it's never happened. Why? Because miracles don't happen.

Praying only "works" if people ask for simple things, that can also happen for other reasons.

Apparently God indeed does not micro-manage Big Grin


The thing about loosing a limb -- it involves arteries / blood vessels / sudden loss of lots of blood. Those Have to be tied off or else the person will bleed to death quickly. So - for a limb to grow Back isn't likely.

I thought that you said:

1) God can perform miracles
2) prayer works

Given these two statements of yours, why can't God answer someone's prayer to grow back their limb?

(05-20-2017 03:15 PM)Sue D. Wrote:  But appendages / fingers / hands Have been re-attached successfully. Under very specific conditions.

Yes, science driven medical conditions. How that is relevant for prayer-driven miracles is beyond me.

(05-20-2017 03:15 PM)Sue D. Wrote:  And the fact that tumors Have been known to disappear after prayer without the need for surgery After all.

Tumors disappear all the time, and in 99% of the cases of non-medical healing from cancer nobody said a prayer - so there's no way to link that to prayers - unless you can show us evidence (i.e., God removing them) that is was linked to prayer.

There have even been clinical trials performed to asses whether prayer works to assist in healing - and guess what: they found prayer does bugger all!

Read it here -> Source

(05-20-2017 03:15 PM)Sue D. Wrote:  Miracles Do happen -- but it Does help if a person is willing to acknowledge them and not be bound and determined to attribute them to something else -- Anything else.

The latter is what most people refer to as "common sense".

And too bad miracles are never ever documented (photo's, video's, measurements) - it's always hearsay.


I clicked into the article - the abstract -- the results were in the 50/50 range. One was 52 / 59 %.

That's what you wanted me to respond to?! Prayer worked about half the time. Maybe it depends on how many people were sincerely praying from their hearts and how many were simply going through the motions Of.
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Yesterday, 11:32 PM (This post was last modified: Yesterday 11:33 PM by Herminator.)
Post: #79
RE: Let us pray for Donald Trump!
(Yesterday 09:02 PM)Sue D. Wrote:  I clicked into the article - the abstract -- the results were in the 50/50 range. One was 52 / 59 %. That's what you wanted me to respond to?! Prayer worked about half the time.

No Sue - the results were that complications occurred 50% of the time in both the group that was prayed for, and in the control group that was not prayed for.

Hence: zero effect of praying.

In fact prayer seemed to make things worse - here's the conclusions of the article which you seemed to miss, even though they are also on page 1:

Quote:CONCLUSIONS:
Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.

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